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  1. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Tongues of men and of angels has been explained ad nauseum - “Tongues of angels” is frequently used as a vehicle to posit ‘angelic speech’. That entire phrase, as well as a few others in that particular part of Paul’s letter, is 100% pure textbook hyperbole no matter how one wishes to slice...
  2. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    There's no natural language - it's all textbook tongues-speech. Examples 1,2,3 and 5 - speakers were native American English speakers. Example 4, speaker's native language was (I believe) a Bantu language.
  3. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Here are five examples of transcribed tongues-speech (sorry, it's all in a loosely done IPA, so if you're not familiar with IPA, it may not help much). Tongues-speech is not written; however, it can be transcribed. (1)/kɪtní níɛ tu xutúnum ɛníɛ kí niɛ’ túnunu məša:tí néɛta:/ /kununú šɛtí...
  4. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Yes, because no one at that public gathering speaks/understands that particular language; thus, the only one benefitting is the speaker. Paul calls for understanding and clarity at a public gathering such that all may benefit - hence his admonition that the speaker should try and secure a...
  5. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    That is the only thing 'tongues' is (when referring to somehting spoken, at any rate). Nowhere in the Bible is modern tongues-speech (the tongues of today's Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians) evidenced or advocated.
  6. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    I think you need to do a grammar re-check re literary hyperbole.
  7. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Both were reported to be 'Chinese' - one of the very few instances where "tongues" were written. I suspect Ms. Ozman may have seen Chinese writing and attempted to imitate it in her writing. The first example inspired perhaps by Chinese calligraphy on a painting, the second by regular block...
  8. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    No, it was called "glôssa" - meaning "language" (i.e. real, rational speech)
  9. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Indeed - people tend to forget that Corinth was a large multi-cultural, multi-lingual city situated on two seaports. Imagine New York city around the turn of the last century.
  10. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Correct - it's entirely the speaker. There's no secondary voice being used.
  11. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    There are a number of studies out there, but many are journal-type papers. For actual books, I would start with William Samarin (Tongues of Men and Angels - the Religious Language of Pentecostalism) and Felicitas Goodman (Speaking in Tongues - A Cross-Cultural Study of Glossolalia). Samarin was...
  12. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    All “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is based upon a subset of the existing underlying sounds (called phonemes) of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with.
  13. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    See my response (#958) above.
  14. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    I don’t recall ever stating anything about healing, or about anyone being possessed. As to tongues being ‘fake’ or gibberish, tongues/glossolalia is not gibberish. Gibberish by its very nature does not seek to mimic language; glossolalia (‘tongues’) does. With respect to tongues being ‘fake’ –...
  15. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    In the case of Pentecost - the languages are Greek and Aramaic. In the Greek, the phrase “in their native language” modifies the verb “speaking” in verse 6, not the verb “hearing.” There was no “miracle of hearing” at Pentecost. “Tongues of angels” is frequently used as a vehicle to posit...
  16. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    PART 2 The miracle of language at Pentecost was making the God of the Jews accessible to all people and moreover, not having to do so in one prescribed language; namely, Hebrew, the sacerdotal language of Judaism. Jewish religious custom and tradition demanded that any teaching, praying...
  17. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Guess due to length, this will need to be in two parts. PART 1 When it’s boiled down, most arguments for tongues at Pentecost can ultimately be said to hinge on two things; first, what the Holy Spirit actually gave the 12 apostles at Pentecost, and second, the crowd’s assumed linguistic...
  18. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Literally thousands, if not tens of thousands, of examples of tongues-speech have been studied and analyzed - not one was ever found to be a real, rational language...living or dead.
  19. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Anyone can learn to produce glossolalia in relatively short order - for most it's a matter of overcoming inhibitions about playing with the sounds of your language.
  20. Kavik

    problem related to praying in tongues

    Not sure I’d classify that as a commend; Paul admonishes the church in Corinth not to forbid the speaking of languages at a public worship and, although he does lay down some ground rules as to how it should happen, he does not outright forbid people to worship in a language no one else at the...