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That's a good question that keeps topics like this going for centuries. ;) The best I can say, personally, is that God had an original number in mind--call it X number of Elect. But then Man decided to go his own way and began to abuse all of the gifts God gave him, including the ability to...

Yes, one of my 1st posts on Usenet, before the year 2000, was on a messianic newgroup that discussed differences between Christians and Jews, focussing in particular upon the question of whether Jesus could be a Jewish Messiah. One of my 1st posts was a long list of prefigures of Jesus in the...

I know what you said. What I'm saying is that logically, if all can be Saved purely by their own choice, apart from God's help, then in theory all can be Saved. But Scriptures never indicate that. That's a pretty unChristian response. Calvinists recognize that God is helping some to be Saved...

Really? So you believe that God promised that *all* would be Saved, that *all* would become the Elect of God? Or, that God didn't know if anybody would be Saved at all, or perhaps a random number, depending on how well evangelists in the Church did in preaching the Gospel? If you believe this...

Why the Jewish protest against Jesus being the Messiah is so ludicrous. The Jews hated Jesus because he was not loyal to the Jewish traditions, even though they had been corrupted, and even though those leaders who represented the keeping of the Law did not actually keep it. They charged Jesus...

That's very divisive rhetoric, and I completely reject it. I was recently booted off of a "Christian" forum for speaking too favorably of Calvinism, of OSAS. I have zero respect for such heartless dogmatism, when seen in the light of Christian history. I understand what you're saying, and that...

Totally agree, and that is the issue Calvinists have with me, though I consider myself to partly be Calvinist. The Calvinists do not deny free will--they just direct it through the predestined will of God, which explained little for me. So, I say I believe in predestination, and also in...

Yes, I have lots of respect for Irenaeus. I don't have to agree, however, with everything he says. I have to respect others, as well, who equally have carried on in the apostolic tradition.

Yea, Hippolytus and Irenaeus viewed the 70th Week of Daniel as future, against the majority view of the Church Fathers who viewed the 70 Weeks as expired in the time of Christ's earthly ministry with the succeeding destruction of Jerusalem. His views are to be respected, but not taken as...

I'm interested in seeing anything. ;)

Quite interesting and unique perspective. Whether I fully agree or not, there's a lot there to learn from. Thanks.

Rev 12.1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. The Woman appears to be Israel since she has 12 stars and has not yet given birth to her son, who is Christ. This refers, primarily, to believing Israel...

I believe in Free Will. I don't believe God predestined anybody to Hell, or the Lake of Fire. God determined the exact number of HIs elect from before the creation of the world. The number that extend beyond His Elect are the result of human sin. Those who act in accordance with their natural...

So, you are unable to draw any inferences from this act of God in providing a covering for them after they sinned? They would die, yes. But had they been completely cut off from God? No. I'm not surmising this. It is fact. Does this mean that all of the descendants were assured of God's...

"Posing as knowledge?" This is what the Scriptures say, along with common sense. If God provided Adam and Eve with animal skins to cover their nakedness, is it "surmising" to say that God was giving them a certain amount of assurance? Is it surmising if God put within the Garden the Tree of Life...

It sounds like you do need assurance? You've done the best you can to have that assurance? I don't know abot OSAS circles where one needs to "do well with good works?" Most Calvinists would look to a self-realization that they've been selected from before the foundation of the world as God's...

I just showed you that God did, in fact, give Adam and Eve eternal assurance that they would be with Him forever. He did that by maintaining His presence with them, by giving them promises, and by guaranteeing that the condemnation brought by the cunning Serpent would be completely dealt...

That's what I believe the Gospel is for. And that Gospel was not for Lucifer, nor for angels. It was given to Adam and Eve with the assurance that God was still with them and giving them future hope, through the judgment of the Serpent.

Yes they were.

Comparing Humans with Angels is not relevant.