1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved because He is good and not evil.

He will not condemn people by not giving them a chance to choose to be saved.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mar 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
Mar 4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

If God chooses in the beginning who will be saved and not saved without their choice then why is He calling people then not choosing them.

If He is calling them then He wants them to be saved but some fall short for eternal life so they are not chosen.

God does the calling and choosing on earth.

So then we have a choice in our salvation and that is because God's kingdom is true love.

You can program your computer to say I love you but does it really love you.

And you can program your computer to say I hate you and will you get mad and smash it.

Why would those who reject the truth be punished if they have no choice but God is good so we have a choice.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life concerning the truth but they have to make the choice to walk through the door of truth for His kingdom is true love but they would of not got to the point to make that choice unless God intervened in their life.

Some people do not make it to that decision point and some reject that decision but continue on as if nothing is wrong.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everybody makes that decision at the door of truth for they will not let go of the flesh and no good thing dwells in the flesh and those in the flesh cannot please God.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1Co 13:5 thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

Walking through the door of truth means we hate sin the works of the flesh, and do not want sin, and allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike which not everybody does that.

If we do sin we repent and not want the sin and allow the Spirit to lead us.

We have to accept the truth that we have to abstain from sin led by the Spirit instead of believing we cannot abstain from sin so we are alright if we sin which then we fall short for we are not moving on from the flesh to the spiritual.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Predestination means God already had the plan to give mankind salvation from the foundation of the world and this salvation is to whoever wants it for God wants all people to be saved.
I love a lot of what you shared. Awesome. The key is the choice made in 2Th. 2:10 Make the wrong choice and you will "not be saved". You will "perish" 2Th. 2:10 which guarantees you cannot even see, let alone believe, the true gospel 2Co. 4:3-4 and you will receive a deluding influence to believe lies are truth and the truth is lies. 2Th. 2:11 There is no third option.

Yes Jesus died for everyone. Yes, He paid the price for everyone. Yes, He "desires" for EVERYONE to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. (See also 2Th. 2:13) The starting point for salvation, the ONLY starting point is 2Th. 2:10. There is no third option. You can't even see the true gospel if you make the wrong choice.

God only continuously keeps on seeking those who make the correct choice in 2Th. 2:10. Joh. 4:23-24 All others believe lies, will perish, and can't even see the gospel, and God is not only not seeking them, He is hardening them into the beliefs they love. 2Th. 2:11

God knows beforehand, those who will make the correct choice. It is these who He "Foreknew", whom He predestined ... Rom. 8:29-30 and no one can ever get sealed "In Him", "In the Beloved", "In Christ" who hasn't made the correct choice in 2Th. 2:10 first, as they are perishing and cannot even see or hear the true gospel to believe it. 2Th. 2:10, 2CO. 4:3-4, Eph. 1:13-14

What God desires is for all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. But God does not always get what He desires. "Few", very "Few" out of the vast masses of people who will end up believing they are Christians, will be saved. The "Many", the vast masses of Christianity, are headed for destruction and will not see "life". Mat. 7:13-14, 22-23

"The greatest obstacle to getting to the truth is the illusion we already have it." Me​
 
I can understand that passage 1 Timothy 2:3 without limiting it to the most simple reading. Well almost the most simple, if I literally believed that verse by itself and do not regard other verses in the Bible, in that belief all men would be saved and all women would perish. If I believe the rest of the Bible, meaning I actually read it all, men, and women, and children too, from any society of men in the world, may be saved through the gospel of Christ with the repentant faith by God's grace. The way is still narrow and there are those who perish.
 
I can understand that passage 1 Timothy 2:3 without limiting it to the most simple reading. Well almost the most simple, if I literally believed that verse by itself and do not regard other verses in the Bible, in that belief all men would be saved and all women would perish. If I believe the rest of the Bible, meaning I actually read it all, men, and women, and children too, from any society of men in the world, may be saved through the gospel of Christ with the repentant faith by God's grace. The way is still narrow and there are those who perish.
When we start altering things from their most common meaning and make, "1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." and all the other passages about Jesus coming to save the world about Him only coming to save an exceedingly small portion of those who believe Jesus is their Lord, God and Savior ("Many" Mat. 7:13, 22-23) distorting the meaning to force it to align with our beliefs, we open a huge can of worms. Plus, that word for "Destruction" is specifically linked to making the choice to "distort" the common readings to fit our beliefs. 2Pe. 3:16

There is a way to make all scriptures "mean what they say" and not completely "Change" them into something that has no resemblance to the words God chose to use. Interestingly, almost all the belief groups commonly referred to as cults do this. "The God" becomes "A God", ... and the like. If I want to discuss the "Meaning" and want any rules at all in place for interpreting to get to that exact meaning, I also have to follow the rules.

If all interpretations, regardless of what we, or others "want them to be" are to be seen as correct, there is no truth. What if God really does want all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth? What if God "seeks all men" as a result of His desire to see all men saved and come to a knowledge of Him? to the point where every single person "Knows" God? Rom. 1:19-21 What if God is so confident that He was "Faithful" to get every single human being absolutely everything they needed to come to "Faith" "In the truth" that He lets every man who falls short judge whether or not He did exactly that? Rom. 3:3-4

What if God gives every single man and woman the choice to decide to accept or reject what is offered to them and almost all "Choose" to reject what is offered, and as a result God Himself hardens them into what they want to believe "as" truth. It would explain how everyone in the 10,000 non-Christian and 45,000 different "Christian" belief groups knows they love truth and possess the truth when it comes to their core beliefs. 2Th. 2:10-13
presents both sides lost or saved. "Faith in the truth" 2Th. 2:13 or "faith in lies" 2Th. 2:11, either way, all "Faith" has God for a source.

Those in 2Th. 2:10-12 choose to make the wrong "choice" and "for this reason" get the consequences of their choice. These who are "perishing" cannot even see, let alone believe the gospel of salvation. That word perishing in 2Th. 2:10 is also used in 2Co. 4:3-4. God is no longer seeking those who make this "choice". Only those who make the correct choice does God continue to seek until they end up with saving "Faith" in the truth. Everyone else gets faith in lies. Joh. 4:23-24, but everyone starts out with the "Choice" to accept or reject what is offered.
 
When we start altering things from their most common meaning and make, "1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." and all the other passages about Jesus coming to save the world about Him only coming to save an exceedingly small portion of those who believe Jesus is their Lord, God and Savior ("Many" Mat. 7:13, 22-23) distorting the meaning to force it to align with our beliefs, we open a huge can of worms. Plus, that word for "Destruction" is specifically linked to making the choice to "distort" the common readings to fit our beliefs. 2Pe. 3:16

There is a way to make all scriptures "mean what they say" and not completely "Change" them into something that has no resemblance to the words God chose to use. Interestingly, almost all the belief groups commonly referred to as cults do this. "The God" becomes "A God", ... and the like. If I want to discuss the "Meaning" and want any rules at all in place for interpreting to get to that exact meaning, I also have to follow the rules.

If all interpretations, regardless of what we, or others "want them to be" are to be seen as correct, there is no truth. What if God really does want all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth? What if God "seeks all men" as a result of His desire to see all men saved and come to a knowledge of Him? to the point where every single person "Knows" God? Rom. 1:19-21 What if God is so confident that He was "Faithful" to get every single human being absolutely everything they needed to come to "Faith" "In the truth" that He lets every man who falls short judge whether or not He did exactly that? Rom. 3:3-4

What if God gives every single man and woman the choice to decide to accept or reject what is offered to them and almost all "Choose" to reject what is offered, and as a result God Himself hardens them into what they want to believe "as" truth. It would explain how everyone in the 10,000 non-Christian and 45,000 different "Christian" belief groups knows they love truth and possess the truth when it comes to their core beliefs. 2Th. 2:10-13
presents both sides lost or saved. "Faith in the truth" 2Th. 2:13 or "faith in lies" 2Th. 2:11, either way, all "Faith" has God for a source.

Those in 2Th. 2:10-12 choose to make the wrong "choice" and "for this reason" get the consequences of their choice. These who are "perishing" cannot even see, let alone believe the gospel of salvation. That word perishing in 2Th. 2:10 is also used in 2Co. 4:3-4. God is no longer seeking those who make this "choice". Only those who make the correct choice does God continue to seek until they end up with saving "Faith" in the truth. Everyone else gets faith in lies. Joh. 4:23-24, but everyone starts out with the "Choice" to accept or reject what is offered.

Yes, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and 2Thes. 2:10 indicate how the whole Scripture should be harmonized/interpreted.

“God is just/does not show favoritism” is another key teaching for guiding a correct hermeneutic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EmethAlethia