401C3 Tax Exemption: Is it disobedient of churches and often compromising?

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Mammachickadee

Guest
#1
#1
Mark 12:13-17
"And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. 14 And they came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” 15 But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius, and let me look at it.”16 And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” 17 Jesus said to them,“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him." -ESV as per esvbible.org

For those who are not familiar, 401C3 is a means by which a church organization (non-profits technically, but churches use it) can obtain tax exemption. However, it is commonly known that a church that sides with particular politicians during an election can lose their tax exemption.
1. Is not giving tax money to your government violation of "rendering to Caesar that which is Caesar's"?
2. Isn't it true that, at the risk of losing tax exemption (and other reasons), churches will often refuse to back particular candidates who are more ideal in an election?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#2
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
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#2
What is more insidious is if a Church compromises the Truth (by watering down or otherwise) just to keep their tax status.
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#3
#3
crossnote said:
What is more insidious is if a Church compromises the Truth (by watering down or otherwise) just to keep their tax status.
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That's often what happens. I have been in churches that refused to even put a voter guide at the visitor's center simply because 1. They believed politics should be separate from the church, and 2. They did not wish to discuss which candidate was better for tax reasons.
The very idea that politics should be separate from the church is a separate question. Out of the dozens of churches I have been in only 2 prayed for their government officials in any capacity. They will go through ceremony for mothers, fathers, and veterans (and it's very nice of them to), but abortion and election particulars they barely touch. So many of the founding father's of our country were pastors who knew that a great nation needed God. Now this great nation claims to be with God but neglects the nation itself. I believe last poll of churches proved only 6-10 percent of voting age professing Christians even voted. By the church not taking a stance on government happenings they effect an apathy toward government. If they don't effect apathy they most certainly do not feed passion and sense of pride and responsibility.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#4
Oct 6, 2011
7,874
1,571
113
#4
First Jewish–Roman War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia when Christ turned over the money changers tables he was pointing out that they were making a prophet from the "exchange of money". the Jews as the feast(from different nations)could not pay the temple tithes with money from these other nations because they had images of men,pagan gods ect. on them. so for them to pay their tithes to the temple they exchanged them for(a fee)into money acceptable to the lord according the the law. (Christ was unhappy with them charging prophet to convert the money),,,

the same they twisted this as they ask Christ(trying to trick him),,,,is it lawful to pay tithes unto Cesar,,,,lawful to who's law Cesar or god's? so he ask them for a coin and said who's image and inscription? ,,,,,,,,then he said render Cesar's(his belonging's/property)to Cesar. (remember it had his image and inscription on it depicting his ownership of it),,,,,,,,,,,

and then "comma",,i think most miss the comma between "Caesars unto Cesar,,,and gods unto god",,, First Jewish Revolt coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,,,,,they are two different sets of tithes.

notice in the tax forms that as you say you cannot say "vote for,,do not vote for,,,,and others"???,,,so in 2016 if the antichrist runs for President(and you file this form),,,you cannot say "don't vote for him",,,,,,,,,,,,i would my self file it and not give opportunity to either candidate(as long as you give both the same or neither),,,myself i already have a king and do not wish to elect another.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
#5
first...if the government -allows- you a tax exemption...i don't think you are violating christ's teaching on giving to caesar what is caesar's...because basically caesar isn't asking for it...

second...i don't really think a church should support particular candidates or parties...because then they are basically preaching an endorsement of fallible human beings... now it is ok to trust fallible people within reasonable limits...because otherwise you would be suspicious of everyone all the time...but it isn't the church's job to tell us who to put our trust in other than God...

think about what would happen if your church preached an endorsement of a politician...and that politician was implicated in some scandal...that would be almost as embarassing and shameful as if your pastor was caught in immorality...

on the other hand i do think it is ok for a church to endorse particular 'political' views as a matter of morality...for example condemning abortion or gay marriage...and many tax exempt churches -do- preach on these things...
 
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NiceneCreed

Guest
#6
#6
Mammachickadee said:
Mark 12:13-17
"And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. 14 And they came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” 15 But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius, and let me look at it.”16 And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” 17 Jesus said to them,“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him." -ESV as per esvbible.org

For those who are not familiar, 401C3 is a means by which a church organization (non-profits technically, but churches use it) can obtain tax exemption. However, it is commonly known that a church that sides with particular politicians during an election can lose their tax exemption.
1. Is not giving tax money to your government violation of "rendering to Caesar that which is Caesar's"?
2. Isn't it true that, at the risk of losing tax exemption (and other reasons), churches will often refuse to back particular candidates who are more ideal in an election?
Click to expand...

If Caesar doesn't require churches pay taxes, then that in and of itself is not a sin against God. However, if churches ignore the profound moral issues which are affecting not only the church but society as a whole, merely to maintain tax exempt status, then our churches are in need of some serious prayer.

It is obvious many churches choose tax exempt status over following the commands of God Almighty. I pray God will open the eyes and hearts of all the leaders of churches throughout the world, and I pray they will obey His commands even to the point of hardship.


God Bless!
 
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nathan3

Guest
#7
#7
The church I attend pays their taxes, they don't use 401C3 tax exemption. I believe the thinking is, Not be to be held accountable to man . Or Not to even show the appearance of wrong doing . Following the laws of the land, allow for more maneuverability in a wicked world.
 
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chillin

chillin

Banned
#8
Jul 22, 2013
6
0
0
#8
Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Isn't that a beautiful thing here in America, we can start our own religion and it's legal....lol
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#9
#9
personally i don't believe churches should be taxed at all...regardless of whether or not they preach on politics...because i am against all forms of 'double tax' and i believe that taxing a church is a double tax since the church members already pay their taxes...
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#11
#11
My wife and I always called our ministries "businesses" and were ready to do a schedule C (US business tax form). God arranged that we always broke even (thus requiring no paper work at all). End of problem. (I still saved the records seven years, as required by US law.)
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#12
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#12
Churches are to help the needy, but some churches are helping themselves. Tax exemption for the churches was for them to help their communities with volunteering and donations that they'd received from their congregation. But now the churches receives food from food banks and give it to the needy and which they keep their money offerings in their pockets. So I don't think churches that are making well enough over the poverty level shouldn't be exempt from paying taxes. But these Mega churches is creating jobs, but for whom? These Mega churches should help the needy by training them to become telecommunication operators or technicians to help run their live broadcasting. But we will always have the poor as it says in the scriptures until God's spirit dwell in us all.
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#13
#13
RachelBibleStudent said:
personally i don't believe churches should be taxed at all...regardless of whether or not they preach on politics...because i am against all forms of 'double tax' and i believe that taxing a church is a double tax since the church members already pay their taxes...
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Not a bad point.
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#14
May 3, 2013
8,719
75
0
#14
There would be a new day without taxing and wasting money for nonsense...
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#15
#15
That's very un-American of you. Obviously, you don't like our Constitution with it's Bill of Rights that declares the government shall make NO law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Passing laws taxing churches certainly violates the first amendment as the Supreme Court upheld. Done and done.

Perhaps another country might be more to your liking where nations prohibit the free exercise of religion through burdening churches with taxes. Au revoir.



4enlightment said:
Churches are to help the needy, but some churches are helping themselves. Tax exemption for the churches was for them to help their communities with volunteering and donations that they'd received from their congregation. But now the churches receives food from food banks and give it to the needy and which they keep their money offerings in their pockets. So I don't think churches that are making well enough over the poverty level shouldn't be exempt from paying taxes. But these Mega churches is creating jobs, but for whom? These Mega churches should help the needy by training them to become telecommunication operators or technicians to help run their live broadcasting. But we will always have the poor as it says in the scriptures until God's spirit dwell in us all.
Click to expand...
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#16
Apr 18, 2013
9,444
2,520
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#16
I think that whether a church is a 501(c)3 or not, it is still walking on thin ice to publicly support particular political candidates.

1. Candidates can get involved in a scandal, real or imagined, and it can hurt the reputation of the church.

2. The gospel is for all men, of any political bent, and when a church publicly picks a political side, this has the potential to drive away all the people on the other side, so they won't listen to the gospel. (I'm not saying all political sides are necessarily right, or equal... but I'm saying that making politics the focus, instead of making the gospel the focus, can create unnecessary division, and prevent people from coming to Christ.)

I realize people have different points of view, but as long as a church is leading people to Christ, my opinion of their politics is very much a secondary issue.
 
S

SparkleEyes

Senior Member
#17
Mar 23, 2013
771
21
18
#17
Call me wrong, but I don't want to go to a church that tells me how to vote. Thank goodness I didn't have parents who told me how to vote either. Parents should equip their children and the church should equip their attendees with a solid understanding and a foundation upon which we can start to think critically allowing me/us to come to my/our own conclusion. I want to be free to think for myself, answering to God when I meet Him in person.

If my church tells me how to vote, I will walk out or leave that particular church entirely. I go to a non-denominational that is NOT a feel good church. Our leaders tell us the stuff we don't always want to hear. :cool:
 
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