-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes and no. You should never toss the Old Testament out the window like I have seen a lot of churches do today. Some stuff we don't follow anymore because they were just issued so that prophecies could be fulfilled and things were a little bit more crucial and whatnot. However, we still have to follow MOST of the teachings in the Old Testament still. It's just as important as the New Testament.
J
Different people will answer this differently.
My experience thus far has been that, a persons answer depends on what they themselves believe, and often it is not backed up biblically.
Seventh Day Adventists are probably the most prominent Judaizers at this point in time, next to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism can very quickly become legalistic, and demand that Christians leave the Covenant of Grace, just like SDA's. One thing you'll notice is the demand that Christians obide by Kosher laws.
Beyond that, it tends to be tid bits here and there that are said to be "followed". This depends on whether a person holds to Dispensationalism, Covenant Theology, or New Covenant Theology.
Dispensationalism chops the bible up into pieces and that can begin to quickly be a matter of which ones a person prefers.
Covenant Theology from what I understand, basically says that there are some things common to the Covenants, which includes some aspects of the OT Law. This typically is more consistant from my observation than is Dispensationalism, and doesn't chop the bible up like Dispensationalism does. One downside, is that Judaizers like to use a lot of the same language Covenant Theology does when dealing with aspects of the OT Law. Terms like, Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, and Civil Law, but these terms get abused, and just about re-defined by those who want to try to justify their demands that a Christian leave the Covenant of Grace.
The next big one is New Covenant Theology, which is sort of inbetween Covenant and Dispensationalism.
From what I understand, I personally would fall somewhere between Covenant Theology, and New Covenant Theology, however, I do not know enough to feel that I can definitively.
What does John Piper believe about dispensationalism, covenant theology, and new covenant theology? - Desiring God <--- good overview of the three
EDIT: This is not a simple question, and simple answers won't give you much of a picture.
My experience thus far has been that, a persons answer depends on what they themselves believe, and often it is not backed up biblically.
Seventh Day Adventists are probably the most prominent Judaizers at this point in time, next to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism can very quickly become legalistic, and demand that Christians leave the Covenant of Grace, just like SDA's. One thing you'll notice is the demand that Christians obide by Kosher laws.
Beyond that, it tends to be tid bits here and there that are said to be "followed". This depends on whether a person holds to Dispensationalism, Covenant Theology, or New Covenant Theology.
Dispensationalism chops the bible up into pieces and that can begin to quickly be a matter of which ones a person prefers.
Covenant Theology from what I understand, basically says that there are some things common to the Covenants, which includes some aspects of the OT Law. This typically is more consistant from my observation than is Dispensationalism, and doesn't chop the bible up like Dispensationalism does. One downside, is that Judaizers like to use a lot of the same language Covenant Theology does when dealing with aspects of the OT Law. Terms like, Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, and Civil Law, but these terms get abused, and just about re-defined by those who want to try to justify their demands that a Christian leave the Covenant of Grace.
The next big one is New Covenant Theology, which is sort of inbetween Covenant and Dispensationalism.
From what I understand, I personally would fall somewhere between Covenant Theology, and New Covenant Theology, however, I do not know enough to feel that I can definitively.
What does John Piper believe about dispensationalism, covenant theology, and new covenant theology? - Desiring God <--- good overview of the three
EDIT: This is not a simple question, and simple answers won't give you much of a picture.
L
Again you are speaking of things you have no knowledge about. Do some reading before you make comments. SDA do not teach salvation by works. SDA teach salvation by grace through faith. Grace keeps the Law
Romans 3:31
(31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1-2
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 3:31
(31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 6:1-2
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I
Romans 13:7-10
7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 2:15-21
15We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Love is spiritual whereas the works of the law by the letter is of the flesh.
2 Corinthians 3:4-18
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord
C
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
C
Jesus said "17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." and "37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
i find that people tend to pick and chose what they will or will not accept based on their personal belief or opinion. many times i have heard someone say this is wrong or that is wrong according to the old testament yet they do not apply other things. if they find something to be against what they believe they use scripture to affirm that belief. at the same time they will deny other things as being outdated based on what they again believe.
if anything the old testament teaches some very important lessons. God at work with people and what was required of people to conform to God. this is what makes Jesus and the new testament so great. look at how Jesus made it possible for us to be saved compared to what used to be required. it is our inability to perfectly conform to old testament law that brought about Jesus. if after all we could conform perfectly to old testament law, why would Jesus have come to redeem us? if the old testament was all that was needed, why have a new testament? also keep this in mind, anytime someone wants to quote the old testament against the new testament should remember one thing, that is exactly what Jesus was dealing with during his ministry. its why the establishment was so against what he was teaching. those who wish to use old testament law as a trump to new testament law do no different than those who did the same thing to Jesus.
the new testament is something you can actually experience. so many who teach the bible seem to forget that. its more than a rule book and instructions, it is about God and it is about you. we read the bible so that when it HAPPENS to us, we will understand how to follow with faith the many examples it gives us. both in the old and new testament. until then we do the best we can with our understanding and try our best to follow its teachings with faith. only one person ever got it all perfectly right, Jesus The Son of God. when the time is right, Jesus will be there to help you. peace and love are to be the goal of ones life. the bible teaches us how to live with each other. old and new testament. anyone who is using the bible to support their teachings of hate or war are in for some serious, serious, biblical retribution. the old testament teaches about that too. its not pleasant.
Duewell
the rainbow connection
if anything the old testament teaches some very important lessons. God at work with people and what was required of people to conform to God. this is what makes Jesus and the new testament so great. look at how Jesus made it possible for us to be saved compared to what used to be required. it is our inability to perfectly conform to old testament law that brought about Jesus. if after all we could conform perfectly to old testament law, why would Jesus have come to redeem us? if the old testament was all that was needed, why have a new testament? also keep this in mind, anytime someone wants to quote the old testament against the new testament should remember one thing, that is exactly what Jesus was dealing with during his ministry. its why the establishment was so against what he was teaching. those who wish to use old testament law as a trump to new testament law do no different than those who did the same thing to Jesus.
the new testament is something you can actually experience. so many who teach the bible seem to forget that. its more than a rule book and instructions, it is about God and it is about you. we read the bible so that when it HAPPENS to us, we will understand how to follow with faith the many examples it gives us. both in the old and new testament. until then we do the best we can with our understanding and try our best to follow its teachings with faith. only one person ever got it all perfectly right, Jesus The Son of God. when the time is right, Jesus will be there to help you. peace and love are to be the goal of ones life. the bible teaches us how to live with each other. old and new testament. anyone who is using the bible to support their teachings of hate or war are in for some serious, serious, biblical retribution. the old testament teaches about that too. its not pleasant.
Duewell
the rainbow connection
The teachings of Jesus and the apostles are all based on the Old Testament. If you think they are different then you clearly have no grasp of the scriptures.
Jesus said that the Old Testament testified of Him:
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
these refer to the Old Testament.
Now as for the supposed two great laws taking over. again I say the Old Testament is the basis of the teachings of Jesus and the apostles.
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
This teaching is not new in the New Testament. it is the same teaching that God gave to Israel.
Jesus constantly relied on the Old Testament.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
The apostles also:
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
and on and on and on the list could go. the point is it is clear they got their teachings from the Old Testament.
This is why so many Christians have weird ideas of what Paul and Jesus taught. once you realise that both the new and Old testament teach the same thing then you will have two witnesses of Christ.
Even the New covenant in Hebrews 8:10 is a direct quote from the Covenant in Jer 31
I find it wired that people who call themselves Christians would speak against the scriptures that Jesus himself taught from. I find it funny that Christians pull down the law which it is prophesied that Jesus would magnify and make honourable.
Think about it.
Jesus said that the Old Testament testified of Him:
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
these refer to the Old Testament.
Now as for the supposed two great laws taking over. again I say the Old Testament is the basis of the teachings of Jesus and the apostles.
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
This teaching is not new in the New Testament. it is the same teaching that God gave to Israel.
Jesus constantly relied on the Old Testament.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
The apostles also:
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
and on and on and on the list could go. the point is it is clear they got their teachings from the Old Testament.
This is why so many Christians have weird ideas of what Paul and Jesus taught. once you realise that both the new and Old testament teach the same thing then you will have two witnesses of Christ.
Even the New covenant in Hebrews 8:10 is a direct quote from the Covenant in Jer 31
I find it wired that people who call themselves Christians would speak against the scriptures that Jesus himself taught from. I find it funny that Christians pull down the law which it is prophesied that Jesus would magnify and make honourable.
Think about it.
This begs the question, did God not have mercy on the people of the Old Testament?
bare in mind, your two commandments are old testament commandments.
God is the same today yesterday and forever. Yet would you have us believe that God shows more favour and more mercy to us than others? is God not fair?
the same salvation you and I have available is the exact same salvation they had. it was by faith. Even In Noah's day this was the case. Read Hebrews chapter 11.
bare in mind, your two commandments are old testament commandments.
God is the same today yesterday and forever. Yet would you have us believe that God shows more favour and more mercy to us than others? is God not fair?
the same salvation you and I have available is the exact same salvation they had. it was by faith. Even In Noah's day this was the case. Read Hebrews chapter 11.