A Visible Sign of the Invisible

[Wansvic]

Was Jesus making a statement or asking a question in Luke 11:13?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So do you think the vipers know how to give good gifts to their children? If someone who is evil, (or abodes not in the truth, since there is no truth in them) how could they know how to bring forth good things since out of their evil treasure comes forth evil things.

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Matt 12:34

It seems that if a viper thinks that they are telling the truth, then it might be difficult for them to perceive otherwise.
...

Jesus' question is rhetorical. His point is, evil (fallen) men know how to give good gifts to their children. As such we can be confident that our righteous Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. Matthew 12:34 has no bearing on the context of Luke 11:13.

 

[Wansvic]

...

So what did the Holy Spirit tell Paul to ask those certain disciples he found at Ephesus? (Acts 19:2)

You do know that the verse you quoted from Mark 16 isn't considered to be part of the original text but was later added to the gospel of Mark, or was it's John who was surnamed Mark, but anyways, in the 2nd century.

First, Paul's initial question in Acts 19 proves people who believe the gospel are not automatically indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The account goes on to reveal that both water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit is necessary to experience the NT rebirth.

The Great Commission includes water baptism as revealed by Jesus in both Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16.

 

[Wansvic]

Notice what it does say at the end of Acts 2. It was the Apostles who were performing the wonders and signs.
Don't you think if the point was that everyone would speak in tongues then this would have been recorded every time?
In the end, you are doing as you did with baptism...making salvation contingent upon some activity of man. It's a false conclusion.

Surely you must realize it was the Holy Spirit within the Apostles that was manifesting the wonders and signs.

Speaking in tongues originates from God not man.

 

[Wansvic]

Apparently you are the one who does not see what is plainly written.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Romans 12:4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and not all members have the same
function, 5 so in Christ we who are many are one body, and each member belongs to one another.

6 We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him
use it in proportion to his faith; 7 if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;
8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously; if it is leading,
let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies
is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be edified. 1 Cor 14:5

Scripture references speaking in tongues that edify an individual. This experience involves the individual speaking directly to God via his spirit. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries...He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;" 1 Cor 14:2,4

The other is the Spiritual gift of tongues for edification of the church. God speaks to the congregation through whomever He chooses via an unknown tongue. God then uses a person to operate in the Spirit gift of interpretation to present the message in a known language. This is a miraculous exchange orchestrated by God. Man is nothing more than a willing vessel used by God for a specific purpose.

Many fail to realize the difference and confusion is the unintended result that has the ability to scare people away. (1 Cor 14:23) “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. (1 Cor 14:27:28)


Notice Paul said "I thank my God, I speak with tongues MORE than ye all: (implying all pray in unknown tongues)

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Cor 14:18-19)

 

[Wansvic]

Every scripture does not have to reference what Acts 2, 10, and 19 confirm. As such, the count would have been 100%.

The reality that speaking in tongues is the sign that individuals have received the Holy Spirit is confirmed in scripture.

Scripture itself states, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. (2 Cor 13:1) "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." (Matt 18:16)

 

[Cameron143]

Surely you must realize it was the Holy Spirit within the Apostles that was manifesting the wonders and signs.

Speaking in tongues originates from God not man.

Of course it was God. But it wasn't in response to men, but to elicit a response in and from men.
Not everyone gets all the gifts. The Spirit gives severally as He wills.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I know a lot of people who are bilingual or more that have not received the holy spirit .

If you want to show everyone a sign then drink a big ole glass of poison .

Some churches in the Appalachian mts used to do that.

 

[SilverFox7]

Of course it was God. But it wasn't in response to men, but to elicit a response in and from men.
Not everyone gets all the gifts. The Spirit gives severally as He wills.

I've been a Christian for 37 years, and I have never spoken in tongues. When I was blessed to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at 21, I did not speak in a tongue when God entered my mind, heart, and soul. That is a gift I do not have along with many other "born again" evangelical or orthodox Christians like me.

 

[Magenta]

(implying all pray in unknown tongues)

I wish you all prayed in tongues. You have a very strange way of interpreting that.

You willfully ignore everything else.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Romans 12:4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and not all members have the same
function, 5 so in Christ we who are many are one body, and each member belongs to one another.

6 We have different gifts according to the grace given us.
If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; 7 if it is serving, let him serve; if it is
teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously;
if it is leading, let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

 

[Wansvic]

I wish you all prayed in tongues. You have a very strange way of interpreting that.

You willfully ignore everything else.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Romans 12:4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and not all members have the same
function, 5 so in Christ we who are many are one body, and each member belongs to one another.

6 We have different gifts according to the grace given us.
If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; 7 if it is serving, let him serve; if it is
teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously;
if it is leading, let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues MORE than ye all:" He did not say I thank God I can speak in tongues...The comment indicates He spoke in tongues MORE than the rest. We know this is a reference to personal prayer because Paul goes on to say...
YET in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Cor 14:18-19)

 

[Magenta]

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues MORE than ye all:" He did not say I thank God I can speak in tongues...The comment indicates He spoke in tongues MORE than the rest. We know this is a reference to personal prayer because Paul goes on to say...
YET in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Cor 14:18-19)

Speaking at all is more than one who does not. It does not mean all do.

You still ignore the other verses. They make abundantly clear that not all get the same gifts.

Why do you wish to deny this??? I don't need to know. But you should be aware you have that bent.

 

[Wansvic]

Speaking at all is more than one who does not. It does not mean all do.

You still ignore the other verses. They make abundantly clear that not all get the same gifts.

Why do you wish to deny this???

I do not ignore the other verses. I can only guess you did not read my entire post. Paul explains the distinction between tongues in personal prayer, and the manifestation for edification of others. (1Cor. 12 and 14) It is the manifestation of tongues that requires the gift of interpretation in the church setting that not all operate in.

Although I prayer in tongues in personal prayer. God has only used me one time to speak a message for the church body.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Jesus' question is rhetorical. His point is, evil (fallen) men know how to give good gifts to their children. As such we can be confident that our righteous Heavenly Father will give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. Matthew 12:34 has no bearing on the context of Luke 11:13.

Well, I would say that your point is that that evil men know how to give good gift to their children, which begs the question about what is the thing you consider a good gift that a parent can give to a child.

While you might not consider that Matt 12:34 is related to to Luke 11:13, yet verse 35 explains that a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things, yet the passage in Luke 11:13 is that the heavenly Father of them who are evil will give the Holy Spirit to them them ask, after all whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap.

 

[Wansvic]

Well, I would say that your point is that that evil men know how to give good gift to their children, which begs the question about what is the thing you consider a good gift that a parent can give to a child.

While you might not consider that Matt 12:34 is related to to Luke 11:13, yet verse 35 explains that a good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things, yet the passage in Luke 11:13 is that the heavenly Father of them who are evil will give the Holy Spirit to them them ask, after all whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap.

Please clarify who you believe the heavenly Father is in that verse. Because it sounds as if you are coming very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.