An Uninvolved God?

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shawntc

Senior Member
May 7, 2010
729
11
0
#1
God didn't speak to me today. In fact, I haven't had any outright "messages" from God for a long time. It's not that my faith has been too weak, if that were somehow possible. Nor is it the case I just wasn't praying hard enough. God simply has not had much of anything to say to me.

There are people in the Evangelical and Pentecostal realms that believe you can hear from God every day if you do this or that right. Joyce Meyer (a Pentecostal speaker) wrote a devotional called "Hearing from God Each Morning." We seem to yearn immensely that we may somehow hear from God. As a Lutheran, I don't believe God is in the process of speaking very much anymore. Everything he needed to say was finished when John penned Revelation. I'm not a full Cessationist, mind you. I do believe that God has intervened occasionally to speak to people and perform miracles. I think of St. Francis of Assisi and the stigmata. I've read about a Lutheran pastor who had a healing ministry, like something Pentecostals and Evangelicals so often wish they could have - and this pastor was from (I think) the 1800s!

Still, my experiences in the various churches I've attended seem to say that God has become quite hands-off in the time following the apostolic age. Once Jesus and the apostles died, God sort of handed off the church to humanity. In fact, I think that after the time of the apostles, God started using the corporate church as his means of interacting with the world.

Let's face it: most recoveries from illness and injury aren't miraculous. They are often caused by using proper medicine. And food doesn't just pop out of nowhere at dinner time. Rather, people grow food using the seasonal weathers. God works through humanity to meet our needs. Same with spiritual needs. How often does Jesus pop into view during a Sunday service and instruct us for an hour or so? Not often at all. Rather there is a pastor or priest, who is charged with instructing and preaching in the stead of Jesus. God is notably quiet during all these things.

I want to believe that God is intimately involved in everything that happens in the universe. That, for instance, God is continually pushing the tiniest of particles where they need to go, and if he were to stop pushing them for the slightest moment that all of reality would fall apart. But, for all I know, that might not be the case. It's possible that God designed the universe in such a way that the laws of physics would naturally appear as they do, and that stuff like magnetism or thermodynamics can function perfectly well without any divine interference. Meanwhile God steps back and lets us build up civilizations and societies, occasionally stepping in at a few key times. Sounds deistic, I know.

But perhaps there is a side that I'm not seeing, once which requires a bit more thinking (and perhaps faith) to see. It might be the case that God is orchestrating world events through means we don't understand. Permitting us to have free will while still having his goals accomplished. It could be that on the macro, national or international scale, God is pushing and prodding people and cultures to go certain ways. Maybe there are modern day miracle workers and prophets calling us in various directions. It might be that he still inspires us to do a certain act or speak on a specific topic, without us being aware of it at all.
 

Twinkle77

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
357
5
18
#2
Hi shawntc
When God speaks to you, how does He do it? Do you feel something in your heart, the words pop out of the bible and become alive, through somebody saying someting.....?

As for me God speaks to me in all the ways I mentioned above.
There are times though when I have felt and still do feel that nothing is happening and I feel like I am in a dark valley.

I feel that God allows us to be in a dark valley in order to test our faith in Him. Will we still faithfully read his word, pray etc or will we just give up after some time.

To really think about it, we do hear from God everyday through his word. Reading His word is His way of speaking to us even though we may not feel anything.

God is intimately involved in everything that happens in the universe. Everything natural is living and they grow because of God's hand upon it and everything is still held together because of God's hand upon it.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

I believe God still inspires us and speaks to us because we are His temple and His Holy Spirit resides within us. When we read His word, His Spirit makes everything come alive.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

People have different views regarding His word, however at the end of the day, it boils down to what we believe.
I believe we have a mighty God who can do anything that is impossible for man.
He can heal, he can wipe out the universe with just His word in the same way that He created the universe.

Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith He alone can grow that faith in us.

Am I babbling??
Have a wonderful day. God bless :)
 

shawntc

Senior Member
May 7, 2010
729
11
0
#3
Twinkle77,

How do we know those thoughts or feelings are really from God, or just games our minds are playing on us? On a personal level, I am willing to believe those may indeed be forms of God speaking, but from an empirical perspective there's just no way to know. Also, none of the verses you posted show that God is still strongly involved in what happens today, or that God still acts on a regular basis. I'm not trying to be argumentative (OK, maybe a little :D ), just looking to see where the evidence - be it the Bible or something else - takes me.
 

lif807

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2013
0
0
0
#4
Why have a God at all in this case? I am not trying to insult you or anything, but it would appear to me that you are not believing the view of God put forth in the Bible. Could it be that God is prompting you to seek Him and to allow Him to speak to your HEART?
Something to think about ya know!
 

lif807

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2013
0
0
0
#5
God is with you at all times--He even knows the number of hairs on your head!
 

lif807

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2013
0
0
0
#6
Empirical does not and cannot apply to God, one cannot measure the unmeasurable and omnipresent. That being understood, you must realize that you might be speculating about things you have never experienced--through ignorance. Prove God, go and research some of the cases of healing, etc. Talk to individuals involved. Instead of trying to figure God out-let Him reveal Himself to you. Trust me if He is compelling you to seek Him out--it's a good idea to do it voluntarily!
 
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shawntc

Senior Member
May 7, 2010
729
11
0
#7
lif807;bt3288 said:
Why have a God at all in this case?
Even if God doesn't routinely interact with us, that doesn't mean that he is somehow unnecessary. I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at.

I am not trying to insult you or anything, but it would appear to me that you are not believing the view of God put forth in the Bible.
And what would that view be? ;)
 

lif807

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2013
0
0
0
#8
God is present at all times and places, interacting with us continually. But my point is not to argue with you--which is wrong. I only desire to tell you to ask God to reveal Himself fully to you:)
 

shawntc

Senior Member
May 7, 2010
729
11
0
#9
lif807;bt3294 said:
God is present at all times and places, interacting with us continually. But my point is not to argue with you--which is wrong. I only desire to tell you to ask God to reveal Himself fully to you:)
Aww, but I wanted an argument! :D
 

lif807

Junior Member
Jul 5, 2013
0
0
0
#10
I see so many common doubts in your comments. I only wish to exhort you to greater openness.