Are we predestined?
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K
Wow, you ask some really tough questions. Personally I do feel that God has known each and everyone one of us from the foundations of the world. I also feel that God has "preprogramed" of sorts with certain dreams, desires, etc. However, I do believe in free will. While God has created us for a divine purpose (which is ultimately the pursuit of God Himself), I also believe that he leaves the decision to fulfill that purpose up to us.
Does he know before hand who will and who won't? Of course. However, ultimately the choice is given to us to make.
Does he know before hand who will and who won't? Of course. However, ultimately the choice is given to us to make.
Here are the portions of scripture in the NT that speak of predestination. What do they say to you?
Rom 8:29,30 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified'.
Eph 1:5,10,11 'Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will... That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will'...
As you think about this, answer these questions;
Does God's foreknowledge have anything to do with predestination?
Who does the predestinating?
What does predestination have to do with?
What role does Christ play in predestination?
Does being 'in Christ' have anything to do with our predestination?
Rom 8:29,30 'For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified'.
Eph 1:5,10,11 'Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will... That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will'...
As you think about this, answer these questions;
Does God's foreknowledge have anything to do with predestination?
Who does the predestinating?
What does predestination have to do with?
What role does Christ play in predestination?
Does being 'in Christ' have anything to do with our predestination?
B
Maybe the Lord will help clarify the matter with these verses below in respect to all those other verses you had mentioned and others have posted.
John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Those that don't come to Jesus do so because they don't want their evil deeds to be reproved, and so God hardens their hearts, allowing the path they chose to bear its results. The same can happen to believers that think it doesn't matter what they do and so continue to live in sin.
2 Timothy 3: 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
Galatians 6:7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
They are still His because they have been bought with a price, but like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living, even though he was left behind at the rapture event, he is still son, but there will be a loss of inheritance as there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but just as that is how God will judge the House of God in the same way Jesus taught excommunication of a brother in trespass, He will finish His work even in those left behind. ( Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 & Philppians 1:6,9-11
2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.....
........ 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Those that don't come to Jesus do so because they don't want their evil deeds to be reproved, and so God hardens their hearts, allowing the path they chose to bear its results. The same can happen to believers that think it doesn't matter what they do and so continue to live in sin.
2 Timothy 3: 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
Galatians 6:7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
They are still His because they have been bought with a price, but like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living, even though he was left behind at the rapture event, he is still son, but there will be a loss of inheritance as there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but just as that is how God will judge the House of God in the same way Jesus taught excommunication of a brother in trespass, He will finish His work even in those left behind. ( Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 & Philppians 1:6,9-11
2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.....
........ 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
K
"God hardens". That's when people just don't want to hear about your faith or anything about it. I used to be like that years ago when my brother got saved. I didn't want to hear him preach.
For us, some sins just turn our stomach. That's about the same as when we're living in sin and somebody wants to preach to us.
Pharoh didn't want to hear about the God of Moses.
Ta da!
B
Every Christian yes. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30 (KJV)
Did you study those verses and try to answer the questions? Try to understand predestination from God's viewpoint instead of ours. In eternity past God looked through His foreknowledge and could see every believer located 'in Christ' that had recieved His Son. Because He saw them 'in Christ', He could call them, justify them and glorify them. God could not believe for them, because He gave them a free volition to accept His Son.
Jesus Christ was the only one that God predestinated and when we recieved Christ we were put 'in Christ' (over 50 times in Ephesians). Being 'in Christ', who is the one God predestinated, we are predentinated in Him (through adoption) to be conformed to the image of His Son. God saw every believer 'in Christ' in eternity passed, but it was only realized by us in time, when we recieved Christ. God was ready and waiting to be gracious (Is 30:18) and to give us mercy to be saved (Titus 3:5) when we believed in time. But for those that He did not see 'in Christ', they were hardened through unbelief. That did not change the love of God nor His desire that all should come to repentance (2Pt 3:9) or whosoever will may come (Rev 22:17). That did not change the gospel from being preached to every creature (Mk 16:15). This also helps explain why the lamb was slain from the foundations of the earth (Rev 13:8). I hope that this will help you.
Jesus Christ was the only one that God predestinated and when we recieved Christ we were put 'in Christ' (over 50 times in Ephesians). Being 'in Christ', who is the one God predestinated, we are predentinated in Him (through adoption) to be conformed to the image of His Son. God saw every believer 'in Christ' in eternity passed, but it was only realized by us in time, when we recieved Christ. God was ready and waiting to be gracious (Is 30:18) and to give us mercy to be saved (Titus 3:5) when we believed in time. But for those that He did not see 'in Christ', they were hardened through unbelief. That did not change the love of God nor His desire that all should come to repentance (2Pt 3:9) or whosoever will may come (Rev 22:17). That did not change the gospel from being preached to every creature (Mk 16:15). This also helps explain why the lamb was slain from the foundations of the earth (Rev 13:8). I hope that this will help you.
Yeah but in these verses the one (paul) That you say taught predestination , teaches us this and no calvinist that I know will touch this verse. if the very elect the predestined before time begin why did paul preach this
2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Predestination in general refers to the plan of Christ, it is God's plan to save the world through Christ that is predestined. When we by faith come to be "in Him", we also are predestined in the plan of Christ.
However I think it is true that God may have an irrevocable call on a person's life for great works such as the apostle Paul etc, or perhaps according to God's will He hardens a person or group of people etc. I think the answer lies somewhere between Calvinism and Arminism.
However I think it is true that God may have an irrevocable call on a person's life for great works such as the apostle Paul etc, or perhaps according to God's will He hardens a person or group of people etc. I think the answer lies somewhere between Calvinism and Arminism.
K
I agree. Christ is the prize and heaven is our destiny. Although the Israelites were destined to make it to the promise land, it was their rejection of God and His ways that turned a trip that should have taken matter of a few days into 40 years of wandering in the desert.
God does in deed have a plan however, in that plan He has given mankind room for free will. Think about it for a second. Since God can make good out of that which was intended for evil, man's free will really has no bearing on the plans of God across the grand scheme of things.
God does in deed have a plan however, in that plan He has given mankind room for free will. Think about it for a second. Since God can make good out of that which was intended for evil, man's free will really has no bearing on the plans of God across the grand scheme of things.
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