Atheists Unveil Monument near Ten Commandments Monument

[Mo0448]

Atheists unveil Fla monument near Ten Commandments


I get that our amendment rights to freely practice religion (or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.) however, deciding to put their monument near the ten commandments I feel is just a way to mock or to instigate an argument. Disappointing really...I've seen another story at a Christian rally where a woman dressed up as the pope, from the waist up, and from waist down painted her naked body and resorted to handing out condoms as a huge mockery of Christianity. Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance? Yep...definitely...I'll tolerate you if you believe what I believe but if you don't I can't tolerate you...how much sense does that make? We as Christians are taught to be loving and understanding regardless and while many struggle with that concept it is just disappointing to see that it is 'expected' from our end but not returned from the other end...

 

[DannyC]

Atheists unveil Fla monument near Ten Commandments


I get that our amendment rights to freely practice religion (or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.) however, deciding to put their monument near the ten commandments I feel is just a way to mock or to instigate an argument. Disappointing really...I've seen another story at a Christian rally where a woman dressed up as the pope, from the waist up, and from waist down painted her naked body and resorted to handing out condoms as a huge mockery of Christianity. Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance? Yep...definitely...I'll tolerate you if you believe what I believe but if you don't I can't tolerate you...how much sense does that make? We as Christians are taught to be loving and understanding regardless and while many struggle with that concept it is just disappointing to see that it is 'expected' from our end but not returned from the other end...

Well first off you should avoid make statements like 'or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.' that is just a nonsensical statement. Could you really provide valid argument to try and say not having a car makes you a car owner? The principle stands that not having a religion does not translate to having a religion no matter how much semantics are thrown into the argument.

'Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance?'

What nonsense is this? You made up scenarios and then decided they were intolerant and then assumed they happen? Considering your points are about atheists then the planned parenthood and gay convention is not important. Have you even watched videos of atheist conventions when christians stand on platforms outside saying that atheists will burn in an eternal hellfire for all eternity? You call that looking for an argument? You perhaps you could watch how the atheists react by standing beside them and ridiculing them, no violence and no one getting murdered. It is stated that the area is a 'free speech zone' so even though I care little about either monuments I have to respect them both. If atheists vandalised the monuments then maybe you would have a point but they didn't and you don't.

 

[Mo0448]

Well first off you should avoid make statements like 'or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.' that is just a nonsensical statement. Could you really provide valid argument to try and say not having a car makes you a car owner? The principle stands that not having a religion does not translate to having a religion no matter how much semantics are thrown into the argument.

'Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance?'

What nonsense is this? You made up scenarios and then decided they were intolerant and then assumed they happen? Considering your points are about atheists then the planned parenthood and gay convention is not important. Have you even watched videos of atheist conventions when christians stand on platforms outside saying that atheists will burn in an eternal hellfire for all eternity? You call that looking for an argument? You perhaps you could watch how the atheists react by standing beside them and ridiculing them, no violence and no one getting murdered. It is stated that the area is a 'free speech zone' so even though I care little about either monuments I have to respect them both. If atheists vandalised the monuments then maybe you would have a point but they didn't and you don't.

With all due respect DannyC, I found it an act of 'stirring the pot' or instigating by having the monument there. Why does it have to be there right near the other monument. That's my question. I made up scenarios and I did not decide they are intolerant it is evident they are intolerant. Tolerance or toleration is a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own. I do not believe someone 'mocking' the pope (even though I am not a catholic) is a very tolerant thing to do. I find it humorous that people laugh and poke fun at Christianity but God forbid we as Christians ever did that. While I agree many Christians can be intolerant of others, as you claimed, I find the action of placing the monument there just another way to take a jab at Christians. Do they have the right to put it there? Sure they do. Do Muslims have the right to build a mosque right across from the 9/11 freedom tower memorial in New York? Yea they do, but let's be honest it would be stirring the pot. A million places to place that monument to atheism and they chose right there near the 10 commandments. Looks like stirring the pot to me.

Well first off you should avoid make statements like 'or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.' that is just a nonsensical statement.

Nonsensical? With all due respect DannyC just because you believe it is nonsensical does that make it nonsensical? Is that not also your opinion? Like I said, I am not here to attack I just found it 'interesting' their choice of location is all.

Could you really provide valid argument to try and say not having a car makes you a car owner?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Does saying I have no belief or I believe in nothing, still mean you believe in something? Is not having a belief mean you believe in nothing which is therefore a belief in something nonetheless. Atheism is a belief believing in nothing still means you believe in something. If someone asks me what am I doing this weekend? And I say nothing, what does that actually mean? As a society we have developed multiple meanings for the word nothing and in all reality there is no such thing as nothing. Say if my cellar is empty there is nothing in my cellar. There is dust isn't there? Isn't there critters perhaps? Molecules? Air? Heat? Light? Believing in nothing, does not mean there is no belief. Because there is no such thing. If you believe in nothing then what you are saying has no valid point it is a contradiction. It would be like saying life is meaningless, if that is true and life has no meaning then your statement holds no value so in fact you haven't said anything at all! I suggest you listen to Ravi Zacharias He is a great apologist and brings up interesting points like these that you appear very passionate about.

What does it really mean that you do not believe in nothing? Does it mean that there is an entity of some kind out there called "nothing" and you don't believe that it exists? Or that such an entity is out there and you believe that it exists but you don't worship it? Or does it mean the more obvious, "I do believe in something"?

 

[Mo0448]

[video=youtube;801qFIcETqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=801qFIcETqc[/video]

Ravi Zacharias. He is a great speaker and uses ethics and philosophy to get his point across. I am sure you'll like his talks

 

[DannyC]

With all due respect DannyC, I found it an act of 'stirring the pot' or instigating by having the monument there. Why does it have to be there right near the other monument. That's my question. I made up scenarios and I did not decide they are intolerant it is evident they are intolerant. Tolerance or toleration is a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own. I do not believe someone 'mocking' the pope (even though I am not a catholic) is a very tolerant thing to do. I find it humorous that people laugh and poke fun at Christianity but God forbid we as Christians ever did that. While I agree many Christians can be intolerant of others, as you claimed, I find the action of placing the monument there just another way to take a jab at Christians. Do they have the right to put it there? Sure they do. Do Muslims have the right to build a mosque right across from the 9/11 freedom tower memorial in New York? Yea they do, but let's be honest it would be stirring the pot. A million places to place that monument to atheism and they chose right there near the 10 commandments. Looks like stirring the pot to me.



Nonsensical? With all due respect DannyC just because you believe it is nonsensical does that make it nonsensical? Is that not also your opinion? Like I said, I am not here to attack I just found it 'interesting' their choice of location is all.



You are comparing apples to oranges. Does saying I have no belief or I believe in nothing, still mean you believe in something? Is not having a belief mean you believe in nothing which is therefore a belief in something nonetheless. Atheism is a belief believing in nothing still means you believe in something. If someone asks me what am I doing this weekend? And I say nothing, what does that actually mean? As a society we have developed multiple meanings for the word nothing and in all reality there is no such thing as nothing. Say if my cellar is empty there is nothing in my cellar. There is dust isn't there? Isn't there critters perhaps? Molecules? Air? Heat? Light? Believing in nothing, does not mean there is no belief. Because there is no such thing. If you believe in nothing then what you are saying has no valid point it is a contradiction. It would be like saying life is meaningless, if that is true and life has no meaning then your statement holds no value so in fact you haven't said anything at all! I suggest you listen to Ravi Zacharias He is a great apologist and brings up interesting points like these that you appear very passionate about.

What does it really mean that you do not believe in nothing? Does it mean that there is an entity of some kind out there called "nothing" and you don't believe that it exists? Or that such an entity is out there and you believe that it exists but you don't worship it? Or does it mean the more obvious, "I do believe in something"?

This is the first thing you wrote.

'I get that our amendment rights to freely practice religion (or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.)'

Now you have written.

'You are comparing apples to oranges. Does saying I have no belief or I believe in nothing, still mean you believe in something? Is not having a belief mean you believe in nothing which is therefore a belief in something nonetheless. Atheism is a belief believing in nothing still means you believe in something.'

See the subtle switch in positions? First you were straight forward in your attempt to equate a lack of religion to a religion. Now you're attempting to say a belief in nothing equates to religion. This becomes more desperate when you try to state 'Is not having a belief mean you believe in nothing'. Is religion defined as belief? Just belief in something? Of course not, so attempting to straw man the defintion of atheism as belief in nothing cannot be a religion for the simple fact as religion is not defined as 'belief in something'. Which makes it all the more pointless due to the opposite of religion is not atheism it would be irreligious, which all atheists are but not all irreligious are atheists. This semantics style argument fails on the unability to google definitions but instead try to water down terms and get them to fit. Also belittles religious belief by the vagueness of your own definition, it's a lose lose situation.

'Atheism is a belief believing in nothing still means you believe in something.' Is it? Or could it be a lack of belief in the belief of God? See these pointless regresses? In the end they mean nothing apart from the fact that the conversation can never get off the ground if people are desperate to make things on an equal par. Just like creation science and science. A simple attempt to change terms and create a sort of equal par debate.

'As a society we have developed multiple meanings for the word nothing and in all reality there is no such thing as nothing.' I am glad you're cleaning up your straw man argument over definitions. Your whole point about nothing is frivolous due to it being a straw man and a red herring about the concept of nothing. I can talk to you about nothing if you like, it is a very interesting philosophical concept but it has nothing to do with the defintions of atheism or religion.
[h=3]noun[/h][mass noun]

• the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
  • Definition of atheism
    [h=3]noun[/h][mass noun]
    
    • disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
      
      
      
      
      

 

[Mo0448]

See the subtle switch in positions?

I do not see a subtle switch in positions as you claim, but then again that's also a matter of opinion. While you make claims that my argument travels in circles I see yours doing just what you claim mine is doing; also again matters of opinion. There is no sense in going around in circles. I am simply curious of what people thought. I do not wish to turn it into a war of words or start an argument over what I believe vs. what you believe ; it wouldn't go anywhere. I will leave it at that no sense arguing over it. You take care DannyC & God Bless! Let's talk about nothing sometime start a thread there's plenty to talk about

 

[DannyC]

See the subtle switch in positions?

I do not see a subtle switch in positions as you claim, but then again that's also a matter of opinion. While you make claims that my argument travels in circles I see yours doing just what you claim mine is doing; also again matters of opinion. There is no sense in going around in circles. I am simply curious of what people thought. I do not wish to turn it into a war of words or start an argument over what I believe vs. what you believe ; it wouldn't go anywhere. I will leave it at that no sense arguing over it. You take care DannyC & God Bless! Let's talk about nothing sometime start a thread there's plenty to talk about

No worries and take care.

 

[Nautilus]

Atheists unveil Fla monument near Ten Commandments


I get that our amendment rights to freely practice religion (or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.) however, deciding to put their monument near the ten commandments I feel is just a way to mock or to instigate an argument. Disappointing really...I've seen another story at a Christian rally where a woman dressed up as the pope, from the waist up, and from waist down painted her naked body and resorted to handing out condoms as a huge mockery of Christianity. Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance? Yep...definitely...I'll tolerate you if you believe what I believe but if you don't I can't tolerate you...how much sense does that make? We as Christians are taught to be loving and understanding regardless and while many struggle with that concept it is just disappointing to see that it is 'expected' from our end but not returned from the other end...

You have a pretty extreme misview of atheists. Ive never known any of them to hit a christian just for their beliefs they might scoff at you or debate you but they normally aren't violent. And the women as a pope making making a mockery of christianity? Well the pope is a mockery of christianity, so whatever. And the only way you let the atheist monument instigate an argument, is if you start it. Just let them have their monument and go on with life.

 

[Shiloah]

Well first off you should avoid make statements like 'or lack thereof which is in my opinion still a religion.' that is just a nonsensical statement. Could you really provide valid argument to try and say not having a car makes you a car owner? The principle stands that not having a religion does not translate to having a religion no matter how much semantics are thrown into the argument.

'Now my question is, if a Christian was handing out flyers and preaching the word in an atheist convention, or a planned parenthood convention or a gay convention they would probably get beat up or killed or verbally assaulted...Intolerant tolerance?'

What nonsense is this? You made up scenarios and then decided they were intolerant and then assumed they happen? Considering your points are about atheists then the planned parenthood and gay convention is not important. Have you even watched videos of atheist conventions when christians stand on platforms outside saying that atheists will burn in an eternal hellfire for all eternity? You call that looking for an argument? You perhaps you could watch how the atheists react by standing beside them and ridiculing them, no violence and no one getting murdered. It is stated that the area is a 'free speech zone' so even though I care little about either monuments I have to respect them both. If atheists vandalised the monuments then maybe you would have a point but they didn't and you don't.

How about you address his point about the woman dressing up as the pope? All I've ever seen atheists do is pull out that which they want from what is stated and attack that. His point is entirely valid. And frankly, the point is obvious right here. We as Christians must rise to a standard of ethics and morality above the level of the natural man because our God demands it of us. This obviously is not true of those with no such authority. If the natural man did rise to that level, it would be apparent in the way atheists respected those of us who choose to believe in and follow God. But that respect is not present.

I've never understood why atheists make it their personal mission to strip anyone and everyone with faith of their faith, when atheists have "literally" nothing to replace it with. If respect is there for everyone's rights, why not at least leave people of faith alone? Why continually deride and torment their beliefs?

I do agree though, Christians should not stand outside atheist conventions and publically ridicule them when that happens. They themselves are not rising to their own standard.

 

[Shiloah]

I'm going to modify my former post. I should have read through the whole thread before posting. Obviously all atheists aren't out to get Christians, and I shouldn't have asserted as much. I just feel that way about a lot of them I've seen on the internet. I am totally against Christians who do such things as stand outside their conventions publically condemning them to hell, so obviously I disagree with members of my own community as well.

 

[Mo0448]

You have a pretty extreme misview of atheists. Ive never known any of them to hit a christian just for their beliefs they might scoff at you or debate you but they normally aren't violent. And the women as a pope making making a mockery of christianity? Well the pope is a mockery of christianity, so whatever. And the only way you let the atheist monument instigate an argument, is if you start it. Just let them have their monument and go on with life.

You made an interesting point Nautilus, however you did not address the point of the Mosque being built near the freedom tower? Should we just let them 'have their mosque' near the freedom tower and go on with our lives? They have their 'freedom' to place it wherever they want do they not? Even knowing that doing so would be a huge slap to the face of our nation? Or is that somehow okay and justifiable. If you know your Quran it states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels.

There's wise and foolish decisions. Instigating an argument or doing something to stir the pot is definitely not a very Christ-like thing to do. As Christians it is not something that would be done. It just bothers me people are so quick to point out if we are 'falling out of line' with what we should be living as Christians when they themselves could care less with living by those means.

 

[Mo0448]

I'm going to modify my former post. I should have read through the whole thread before posting. Obviously all atheists aren't out to get Christians, and I shouldn't have asserted as much. I just feel that way about a lot of them I've seen on the internet. I am totally against Christians who do such things as stand outside their conventions publically condemning them to hell, so obviously I disagree with members of my own community as well.

I agree my intention is to not suggest ALL atheists are evil horrible human beings. In fact I know many atheists who are better Christians than actual Christians if that makes sense. I can say many Christian brethren (if you could call them that) do not show one ounce of sympathy, mercy or grace as Christ demonstrated. Which bugs me because in the end it pushes people away from Christ instead of drawing them closer. Like that super ridiculous church The west something baptist churches...who are we to claim judgment on anyone's life They make me mad

 

[Shiloah]

I agree my intention is to not suggest ALL atheists are evil horrible human beings. In fact I know many atheists who are better Christians than actual Christians if that makes sense. I can say many Christian brethren (if you could call them that) do not show one ounce of sympathy, mercy or grace as Christ demonstrated. Which bugs me because in the end it pushes people away from Christ instead of drawing them closer. Like that super ridiculous church The west something baptist churches...who are we to claim judgment on anyone's life They make me mad

Oh boy! Do I ever agree. And you know what? I actually think churches like the Westboro Baptist church are literary worse than atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, or any other nonChristian group when it comes to being ANTICHRIST. What could do more damage to any institution than for some of it's "seeming" members to act in a corrupt fashion? It defames the entire institution. Right? It's people inside the church walls, so to speak, who's purpose is destroy it. There's no worse enemy to the body of Christ than people claiming to be Christians, who in truth, are just corrupt individuals whose only real purpose is to defame and destroy.

 

[Mo0448]

I agree, its like a cancer to the body of Christ. I've written them emails at one point I was so frustrated at their use of scripture to justify their points it made me sick! I had to go for a drive or I was going to blow up. Are they so self righteous and holy to claim judgment on ANYONE?! Gosh its like all the Pharisees got together and formed a club!

 

[megaman125]

You have a pretty extreme misview of atheists. Ive never known any of them to hit a christian just for their beliefs they might scoff at you or debate you but they normally aren't violent.

Try growing up as a Christian in a UK public school. Public schools in the US aren't far behind.

 

[Elizabeth619]

As conservative as I am I dont think cement blocks put up by atheists is anything to worry over. Just as we have right to post the 10'commandments they have every right to post their views in concrete if it makes them feel better.
These monuments are a pretty mild "attack" on Christianity on my opinion.
What I consider a bigger attack on Christianity and God is Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn and TBN.

 

[Drett]

Athiests like to portray themselves as logical beings that like to reason things through. Having a monument to a none belief is not logical. They let their emotions override their judgement just like the rest of us mortal. They are fortunate that any hatred directed to the religious dos not get tied back to them.

http://www.thetimesherald.com/artic...Religion-violent-atheism-worse?nclick_check=1

 

[Nautilus]

You made an interesting point Nautilus, however you did not address the point of the Mosque being built near the freedom tower? Should we just let them 'have their mosque' near the freedom tower and go on with our lives? They have their 'freedom' to place it wherever they want do they not? Even knowing that doing so would be a huge slap to the face of our nation? Or is that somehow okay and justifiable. If you know your Quran it states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels.

There's wise and foolish decisions. Instigating an argument or doing something to stir the pot is definitely not a very Christ-like thing to do. As Christians it is not something that would be done. It just bothers me people are so quick to point out if we are 'falling out of line' with what we should be living as Christians when they themselves could care less with living by those means.

I really dont care at all about the community center/mosque. I knew people who died on 9/11 and it still doesn't bother me. But then I'm not overly sensitive and trying to find perceive slights against christianity around every corner.