Can you Spot the Trinity?

[biker]

I"ll shall return and answer your questions.

But to the Greek. Most want to accept it because the English Bible is based off of it. Scholars have been proving by having older codex and papyrus materials from Hebrew/Aramaic than the Greek. The Hebrew/Aramaic translated different than what the Greek does. They don't like the change because it many times proves their Doctrines to come into question...would be why.

 

[Dan_473]

I"ll shall return and answer your questions.

But to the Greek. Most want to accept it because the English Bible is based off of it.

My impression was that most people want to use the ancient Greek manuscripts because they believe the New testament was originally written in Greek.

Or to put it another way, most English (or major languages) translations of the New testament are translated from the Greek because the translators believe that the New testament was written in Greek.

Kind of a similar issue: would we expect that Paul would write to the Church in the Greek city of Corinth using Aramaic or Greek?

Scholars have been proving by having older codex and papyrus materials from Hebrew/Aramaic than the Greek.

From what I've read, the Greek manuscripts are usually considered to be several centuries earlier than the Aramaic. But of course, there will always be disputes about dating.

I think they recently found the earliest fragment yet of John, it's dated to about 150 ad, and it's in Greek.

The Hebrew/Aramaic translated different than what the Greek does. They don't like the change because it many times proves their Doctrines to come into question...would be why.

A possible answer would probably involve some kind of conspiracy. Bible translators starting with the King James (or even earlier) are conspiring to suppress the truth.

 

[biker]

I have been studying the reasons why the following Scholars have backed the idea of the New Testament being originally written in Hebrew. Their findings are hard to ignore if you don't approach it with the "they are wrong" attitude, It's actually very compelling evidence.

• “The New Testament WAS originally written in Hebrew. As the following scholars agree – Bevan, Blizzard, Grant, Loisy, Schonefield, Trimm, Minge, Segal, Dam, etc. They all raise the flag regarding the New Testament as being originally written in Hebrew and NOT Greek or Aramaic.”-Hebrew New Testament by, Dr. D. Briggs, Ph.D., Walden University

THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN HEBREW | Research ...
researchsupportsthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/the-new-testament-was-originally-written-in-hebrew/





Richard B. Hays - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Hays
Richard Bevan Hays (born May 4, 1948) is an American New Testament scholar and George Washington Ivey Professor Emeritus of New Testament Duke Divinity School in Durham, North Carolina. He is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church .

• Nationality: American
• Education: Yale College, Yale Divinity School
• Alma mater: Emory University (PhD)
• Occupation: New Testament scholar

Bible Scholars
www.biblescholars.org
Bible Scholars is pleased to announce a new book by Dr. Roy Blizzard: "A HEBREW UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFICULT PASSAGES IN THE BIBLE." This book's purpose is to establish Hebrew as the key to understanding the scriptures, especially the words of Jesus as found in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke.


Robert M. Grant (theologian) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Grant_(theologian)
Grant is the son of well-known New Testament scholar Frederick C. Grant and Helen McQueen Grant (née Hardie). He earned a Bachelor of Arts degree with distinction from Northwestern University in 1938; attended the Episcopal Theological School in Cambridge, Massachusetts from 1938-1939; moved to Columbia University in 1939-1940;

• Alma mater: Harvard Divinity School
• Nationality: American
• Education: Union Theological Seminary
• Residence: Chicago

Alfred Firmin Loisy | French theologian | Britannica
www.britannica.com/biography/Alfred-Firmin-Loisy
Alfred Firmin Loisy, (born Feb. 28, 1857, Ambrières, Fr.—died June 1, 1940, Ceffonds), French biblical scholar, linguist, and philosopher of religion, generally credited as the founder of Modernism, a movement within the Roman Catholic church aimed at revising its dogma to reflect advances in science and philosophy.


British biblical scholar
Hugh J. Schonfield - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_J._Schonfield
Hugh Joseph Schonfield (London, 17 May 1901 – 24 January 1988, London) was a British Bible scholar specialising in the New Testament and the early development of the Christian religion and church.


Charlie Trimm | People, Biola University
www.biola.edu/directory/people/charlie-trimm
Charlie Trimm loves to inspire students to recognize the beauty of the Old Testament and its relevance for the life of the church today. Having served for several years in pastoral ministry, he strives to encourage the spiritual growth of his students in all his classes.


Alan F. Segal - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_F._Segal
Alan F. Segal (August 2, 1945 – February 13, 2011) was a scholar of ancient religions, specializing in Judaism's relationship to Christianity.

 

[Dan_473]

I have been studying the reasons why the following Scholars have backed the idea of the New Testament being originally written in Hebrew. Their findings are hard to ignore if you don't approach it with the "they are wrong" attitude, It's actually very compelling evidence.

• “The New Testament WAS originally written in Hebrew. As the following scholars agree – Bevan, Blizzard, Grant, Loisy, Schonefield, Trimm, Minge, Segal, Dam, etc. They all raise the flag regarding the New Testament as being originally written in Hebrew and NOT Greek or Aramaic.”-Hebrew New Testament by, Dr. D. Briggs, Ph.D., Walden University

THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN IN HEBREW | Research ...
researchsupportsthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/the-new-testament-was-originally-written-in-hebrew/





Richard B. Hays - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Hays
Richard Bevan Hays (born May 4, 1948) is an American New Testament scholar and George Washington Ivey Professor Emeritus of New Testament Duke Divinity School in Durham, North Carolina. He is an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church .

• Nationality: American
• Education: Yale College, Yale Divinity School
• Alma mater: Emory University (PhD)
• Occupation: New Testament scholar

Bible Scholars
www.biblescholars.org
Bible Scholars is pleased to announce a new book by Dr. Roy Blizzard: "A HEBREW UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFICULT PASSAGES IN THE BIBLE." This book's purpose is to establish Hebrew as the key to understanding the scriptures, especially the words of Jesus as found in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke.


Robert M. Grant (theologian) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Grant_(theologian)
Grant is the son of well-known New Testament scholar Frederick C. Grant and Helen McQueen Grant (née Hardie). He earned a Bachelor of Arts degree with distinction from Northwestern University in 1938; attended the Episcopal Theological School in Cambridge, Massachusetts from 1938-1939; moved to Columbia University in 1939-1940;

• Alma mater: Harvard Divinity School
• Nationality: American
• Education: Union Theological Seminary
• Residence: Chicago

Alfred Firmin Loisy | French theologian | Britannica
www.britannica.com/biography/Alfred-Firmin-Loisy
Alfred Firmin Loisy, (born Feb. 28, 1857, Ambrières, Fr.—died June 1, 1940, Ceffonds), French biblical scholar, linguist, and philosopher of religion, generally credited as the founder of Modernism, a movement within the Roman Catholic church aimed at revising its dogma to reflect advances in science and philosophy.


British biblical scholar
Hugh J. Schonfield - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_J._Schonfield
Hugh Joseph Schonfield (London, 17 May 1901 – 24 January 1988, London) was a British Bible scholar specialising in the New Testament and the early development of the Christian religion and church.


Charlie Trimm | People, Biola University
www.biola.edu/directory/people/charlie-trimm
Charlie Trimm loves to inspire students to recognize the beauty of the Old Testament and its relevance for the life of the church today. Having served for several years in pastoral ministry, he strives to encourage the spiritual growth of his students in all his classes.


Alan F. Segal - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_F._Segal
Alan F. Segal (August 2, 1945 – February 13, 2011) was a scholar of ancient religions, specializing in Judaism's relationship to Christianity.

That's an impressive list of scholars!

Do they all say that the entire New testament was originally written completely in Aramaic?

I think it's reasonable to say that Paul could speak Greek based on how he is able to participate in debates in the marketplace in Athens and speak on Mars Hill.

Let's take the book of Romans as an example. Based on how Paul talks about the Jews in chapters 9-11, it looks like it's written to a mostly gentile Church.

Those Roman Christians, it seems to me, very likely grew up speaking Latin, probably learned some fairly good Greek in their schools.

They probably knew little or no Aramaic or Hebrew.

Does it make sense that Paul wrote the book of Romans in Aramaic? Are the scholars in that list saying that he did?

 

[biker]

That's an impressive list of scholars!

Do they all say that the entire New testament was originally written completely in Aramaic?

I think it's reasonable to say that Paul could speak Greek based on how he is able to participate in debates in the marketplace in Athens and speak on Mars Hill.

Let's take the book of Romans as an example. Based on how Paul talks about the Jews in chapters 9-11, it looks like it's written to a mostly gentile Church.

Those Roman Christians, it seems to me, very likely grew up speaking Latin, probably learned some fairly good Greek in their schools.

They probably knew little or no Aramaic or Hebrew.

Does it make sense that Paul wrote the book of Romans in Aramaic? Are the scholars in that list saying that he did?

It's difficult to determine their precise thinking here. It appears they believe even though Paul wrote to the Gentiles in Greek, he also wrote similar to the Jews in Hebrew. Somehow they see the first version was done in Hebrew.

 

[Dan_473]

It's difficult to determine their precise thinking here. It appears they believe even though Paul wrote to the Gentiles in Greek, he also wrote similar to the Jews in Hebrew. Somehow they see the first version was done in Hebrew.

Paul wrote two letters to the church in Rome, one in Greek and one in Hebrew?
Or he wrote a Hebrew version of the Greek letter to the Romans and sent it somewhere else?

 

[biker]

Paul wrote two letters to the church in Rome, one in Greek and one in Hebrew?
Or he wrote a Hebrew version of the Greek letter to the Romans and sent it somewhere else?

Good question. I believe Paul wrote when at first dealing with the Jews in Hebrew. The "belief" is that James, half brother of Jesus, leader of the Council, wrote his letter to the Jews because the theory is he felt Paul was too overzealous. And James used more Gospel tones. Today, we aren't discrediting Paul for anything, but according to the letter to the Jews from James, James must've felt the Jews were not buying Paul's version.

If this is true, we have at least some proof that Paul wrote to the Jews at some point and that James write to the Jews. And this I believe is where the Hebrew portion comes into play.

 

[biker]

*wrote

Have company and wasn't able to edit

 

[Dan_473]

Good question. I believe Paul wrote when at first dealing with the Jews in Hebrew. The "belief" is that James, half brother of Jesus, leader of the Council, wrote his letter to the Jews because the theory is he felt Paul was too overzealous. And James used more Gospel tones. Today, we aren't discrediting Paul for anything, but according to the letter to the Jews from James, James must've felt the Jews were not buying Paul's version.

If this is true, we have at least some proof that Paul wrote to the Jews at some point and that James write to the Jews. And this I believe is where the Hebrew portion comes into play.

*wrote

Have company and wasn't able to edit

That's cool!
I'll wait until you have time to make the post say what you want it to.

 

[biker]

That was my answer though. James gives hint that Paul did write to the Jews first. We know later Paul was assigned to the Gentiles. But before that, he was preaching to the Jews. This is probably the grounds for the Hebrew Theory.

 

[Dan_473]

That was my answer though. James gives hint that Paul did write to the Jews first. We know later Paul was assigned to the Gentiles. But before that, he was preaching to the Jews. This is probably the grounds for the Hebrew Theory.

I think I understand what you're saying.

Paul wrote to Jews first, but it wasn't a Hebrew version of the book of Romans, it would have been something similar but different.

it's possible.
it would mean that not everything that Paul wrote was preserved as scripture.

 

[Starlitheavens]

Genesis 1; 26 and Genesis 6; 5-8. Very very deep subject.

 

[just_truth]

I think I understand what you're saying.

How do you see verses like this
Psalm 110: 1 <A Psalm. Of David.> The Lord said to my lord, Be seated at my right hand, till I put all those who are against you under your feet.

Do you see it as the father talking to the son? Something else?

If they have one mind, is a verse like that just for our benefit? Kind of a literary device?

The conversation to other happened as part of Incarnation, as the distinction of Son's mind that He does not know his second coming but only the Father(knows it), but then Jesus divinity is the Father He must know it from the Father.
They have one mind in Divinity as all-knowing God, and again to say this comes from the Father.

Dan_473 if we come to literally to understand Psalm 110 that the lord will come to sit at the right hand of the Lord, there will be a two thrones of God in heaven or three thrones to include the Holy Spirit as the third person. But the Scriptures say there is only one throne of God in heaven, and only one Deity sitting on it.

 

[just_truth]

Yes, because their Trinity have common share the divinity from an unidentified deity, base on their illustration of Trinity in a triangle.
In which the three as distinct persons have their own sets of minds and different wills.

Yes, because their Trinity have common share the divinity from an unidentified deity, base on their illustration of Trinity in a triangle.
In which the three as distinct persons have their own sets of minds and different wills.

 

[Dan_473]

Dan_473 if we come to literally to understand Psalm 110 that the lord will come to sit at the right hand of the Lord, there will be a two thrones of God in heaven or three thrones to include the Holy Spirit as the third person. But the Scriptures say there is only one throne of God in heaven, and only one Deity sitting on it.

In your view, is Jesus still sitting at the right hand of the the Lord?

 

[just_truth]

In your view, is Jesus still sitting at the right hand of the the Lord?

"Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
The Father is his Divinity/Power.

 

[just_truth]

"Jesus said, “I AM. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

 

[Prycejosh1987]

The following are the results of a Logos search of the trinity. Each verse shows in one way or another all three persons of God together in the same verse. See if you can spot the more difficult ones.

I wouldnt not go as to say every verse, but when it relates to God. It relates to all 3 of them. That hang around each other, when each of them act and i love that about God. The unity is so pure and right.