Canon Open? Canon Closed?

[TheGrungeDiva]

The Roman Catholic Church (and, if I understand them correctly, most if not all other Catholic rites) believe that the Canon is still open. They believe that God can, and sometimes does, send us additional instruction; for example, through the Pope, when he is speaking "Ex Cathedra" (please forgive me, my Catholic sisters and brothers, if I'm a little off on this doctrine ... I may be mis-remembering what I learned).

When Luther started his reformation, one of the changes he made was saying that the canon was closed. In other words, everything God had to say to us has already been said, in Scripture. Modern theologians may be inspired by God, but nothing "new" will come. If it is necessary for salvation, then it's in the Bible. If it's not necessary for salvation, then it is not important enough to bother with.

I find it interesting that many churches now seem to be coming "full circle." For example, the UCC's motto is: "God is still speaking: Don't put a period where God puts a comma." UCC is absolutely Protestant, not Catholic, and yet they seem to be trying to re-establish this older tradition.

I'd love to see what others here think.

 

[Crossfire]

God's entire purpose for creating mankind was & is to fellowship with us. God is, was and always will be relational thus He has, is and will continue to speak to the hearts of men. Does this mean that the canon of scripture is still open? Not necessarily. However, what this does mean is that God has given us the means through scripture to measure and discern that which we are hearing is truly from the Lord for God - being the same yesterday, today and forever - will never contradict Himself.

 

[episcopotic]

If it is necessary for salvation, then it's in the Bible. If it's not necessary for salvation, then it is not important enough to bother with.

I don't think anybody really thinks this, even if it's what they put down on paper. When someone prays for guidance, e.g. choosing between two cities to move to, they want God to give them information which isn't included in the Bible. I don't know any manifestation of the Christian faith that doesn't have some room for these private revelations.

And that's what they are - private revelations which are certainly important but not binding on any other Christian. I've never personally known a modern Christian insist that these be included in the Biblical canon, which almost all modern Christians consider closed. The Bible itself states, though, that's it's not a complete record in the sense of containing all God said and did.

Some Catholics throughout the ages have had revelations which they have insisted were public and to be universally applied, but they were usually put in their place. The same thing happens in Protestant denominations too - someone will come up with a weird rule directly from God's mouth, apparently, but by the end of the year everyone's forgotten Bishop Whoever's teaching on the 11% tithe. In Catholicism, however, because of its hierarchy, weird teachings have channels through which they can be quickly promulgated. Protestants have to publish books and hope for the best.

One of the things to keep in mind about papal infallibility is that, by the time the pope speaks ex cathedra, the teaching he's discussing is not generally a new revelation. It's probably been believed and discussed for decades. This is just as much an exercise of authority as it is revelation or addition to any canon.

 

[episcopotic]

I just want to add: Catholics have made it easy for the rest of us by actually letting us know who their pope is.

If you look around at all your denominational fellows and don't see anybody wearing a pope hat, you may want to reach up. A lot of believers out there speak ex armchair a lot more frequently and with a lot less panache than the popes have. The only reason they get away with it is that they're not in front of a worldwide audience.

It happens on a daily basis. Just browsing through recent threads... if you support X, you're not a Christian. The day of worship is X. If you believe in evolution/creationism, if you don't agree with me on birth control or abortion, etc. These are nothing less than anathemas, handed out like candy.

 

[Laodicea]

According to Isaiah 8:20 any new light must agree with truth already revealed.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I just want to add: Catholics have made it easy for the rest of us by actually letting us know who their pope is.

If you look around at all your denominational fellows and don't see anybody wearing a pope hat, you may want to reach up. A lot of believers out there speak ex armchair a lot more frequently and with a lot less panache than the popes have. The only reason they get away with it is that they're not in front of a worldwide audience.

It happens on a daily basis. Just browsing through recent threads... if you support X, you're not a Christian. The day of worship is X. If you believe in evolution/creationism, if you don't agree with me on birth control or abortion, etc. These are nothing less than anathemas, handed out like candy.

Good point.

BTW, my home church is Episcopalian, though I was raised Lutheran. Love the liturgy.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Closed. Did not vote because the description under "closed' does not accurately describe the matter.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Closed. Did not vote because the description under "closed' does not accurately describe the matter.

Okay, then how would you describe it more accurately?

 

[rainacorn]

Gal 1:8-10 " But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ"


God still talks to us, of course, but the Bible says over and over that if what is heard is contradictory or contrary to what is already in the Bible, then it is false. This is why Mormons are in a cult and not actually Christians. Everything we need to know is already in there, often repeated just in case we're kinda slow or stubborn.

 

[SantoSubito]

The Roman Catholic Church (and, if I understand them correctly, most if not all other Catholic rites) believe that the Canon is still open. They believe that God can, and sometimes does, send us additional instruction; for example, through the Pope, when he is speaking "Ex Cathedra" (please forgive me, my Catholic sisters and brothers, if I'm a little off on this doctrine ... I may be mis-remembering what I learned).

Well the canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent, and all things needed for salvation have already been revealed (the public revelation), but God still gives "private revelation" such as the apparitions at Fatima or the visions of St. Faustina which are optional to believe in. Private revelation may make it easier to attain salvation, or it may simply be God giving hope to His people.

Though strictly speaking if a Pope ever invoked Ex Cathedra for a whole encyclical it would be considered inspired by the Holy Spirit and would then be part of the deposit of faith. Which since it is a "must believe" encyclical would essentially put it on par with scripture.

When Luther started his reformation, one of the changes he made was saying that the canon was closed. In other words, everything God had to say to us has already been said, in Scripture.

He may have at one point, but Luther went through phases in his reformation mindset. Initially he wanted abuses in the Church corrected (some of which were valid while some weren't), but he became more radical as he made no progress. Bishops are pretty much the only people in a position to reform abuses in the Church and Luther, as a monk, was not in such a position.

I find it interesting that many churches now seem to be coming "full circle." For example, the UCC's motto is: "God is still speaking: Don't put a period where God puts a comma." UCC is absolutely Protestant, not Catholic, and yet they seem to be trying to re-establish this older tradition.

I think they're getting to the same point Catholics have been for ages. Where they affirm that the canon is closed, but believe that God may still reveal things to people.

 

[resurrection33]

The Roman Catholic Church (and, if I understand them correctly, most if not all other Catholic rites) believe that the Canon is still open. They believe that God can, and sometimes does, send us additional instruction; for example, through the Pope, when he is speaking "Ex Cathedra" (please forgive me, my Catholic sisters and brothers, if I'm a little off on this doctrine ... I may be mis-remembering what I learned).

When Luther started his reformation, one of the changes he made was saying that the canon was closed. In other words, everything God had to say to us has already been said, in Scripture. Modern theologians may be inspired by God, but nothing "new" will come. If it is necessary for salvation, then it's in the Bible. If it's not necessary for salvation, then it is not important enough to bother with.

I find it interesting that many churches now seem to be coming "full circle." For example, the UCC's motto is: "God is still speaking: Don't put a period where God puts a comma." UCC is absolutely Protestant, not Catholic, and yet they seem to be trying to re-establish this older tradition.

I'd love to see what others here think.

I believe the Canon is closed. I think the Lord would be very displeased if we tried to add to it. That would be his job, not ours, and I don’t think he’s going to add anything to it. Why should he? Has he thought of any new laws that need to be obeyed? No, because he knew from the beginning which laws needed to be obeyed.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

often repeated just in case we're kinda slow or stubborn.

LOL, ain't that the truth

 

[Snackersmom]

God's entire purpose for creating mankind was & is to fellowship with us. God is, was and always will be relational thus He has, is and will continue to speak to the hearts of men. Does this mean that the canon of scripture is still open? Not necessarily. However, what this does mean is that God has given us the means through scripture to measure and discern that which we are hearing is truly from the Lord for God - being the same yesterday, today and forever - will never contradict Himself.

I totally agree with this. Any new "revelation" must be tested against scripture. I believe that the Bible contains everything that we "need" to know, theology-wise, but 10 different people can read the same passage of scripture, and claim 10 different "meanings". That's why we need to be careful and discerning, and ask God to reveal Truth to us, which He still does .

But, as far as "New Revelations" that preach a new Christ, or a new way to salvation........BUNK!!!!!!!!

Also, in my experience, prophetic words do tend to be rather personal in nature, although I don't know that God wouldn't still give someone a broad-sweeping prophetic word, it's entirely possible. I would just be very careful to make sure it lined up with scripture, as well. "Despise not prophesyings, but prove all things; hold fast that which is good"