Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on gays

[Elizabeth619]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Thank goodness we are not under the
Old covenant. Jesus died for homosexuals too.

 

[Yahwhat]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

I'm trying to see if you actually know the Bible and how things were actually done during that time period. So are you going to do that or just evade?

How about you post the verses that explain so I can see if you actually know what you're talking about?

Incorrect.

Also, it says nothing about killing "bratty children."

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

 

[Ritter]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

if they were in favors of such measures would you still deign to call them christian? I wouldn't. Unless of course you can point out the bible verse where Christ(you know the basis of christianity) supports such radical measures.

Yes Nautilus, I would deign to call the likes of Thomas Hooker, John Cotton, John Winthrop, Roger Williams, Thomas Dale, Jonathan Edwards, and George Whitfield all Christians. Without exception.

To do otherwise would make me at odds with reality.

 

[TracerBullet]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Incorrect.

Also, it says nothing about killing "bratty children."

All who curse theirfather or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capitaloffense. Leviticus 20:9

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

All who curse theirfather or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capitaloffense. Leviticus 20:9

This does not say children as in small child either. I am still a child to my mother though I am 32. You are still a child of your parents though you are 37 Nowhere does it say anything about small children, and the passage says REBELLIOUS children.

Christians are also not bound by Levitical Law.

 

[Yahwhat]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Christians are also not bound by Levitical Law.

Why was Levitical Law imposed in the first place? Obviously, those laws would not fly today
but were these laws God's idea or man's?

And if we are in the New Covenant and don't follow the OT law why do we still stand by the
10 commandments?

 

[Nuns_n_roses]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

I think I can safely say we're all against this right...?

Right!? Well I hope so...

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

The Hebrew word for "children" in this passage is actually translated to "young men"
The fact that 42 were mauled shows this was not little kids making fun of a man being bald but more like an attack by a mob.
The children saying "go up" was likely in reference to Elisha being caught up in Heaven which means the boys were ridiculing a prophet of God.

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

This passage says nothing about a little boy. Only "rebellious son" This passage likely means a couples young adult son who was a drunkard or violent and caused shame and dishonor to them.

It is important to pay close attention to context and translation.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Why was Levitical Law imposed in the first place? Obviously, those laws would not fly today
but were these laws God's idea or man's?

And if we are in the New Covenant and don't follow the OT law why do we still stand by the
10 commandments?

The laws defined what sin was.

 

[JimJimmers]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Why was Levitical Law imposed in the first place? Obviously, those laws would not fly today
but were these laws God's idea or man's?

And if we are in the New Covenant and don't follow the OT law why do we still stand by the
10 commandments?

Moses asked the Israelites if they wanted to live under the law as read to them, and to a man they all said yes. No modern homosexuals have agreed to live under the law of death. Some people believe the law of death was punishment for making the golden calf. God knew it wasn't the best, which is why He promised to make a new covenant with all people.


As far as the top ten, people seem to like them. We are still under most of them, because the New covenant law is summed up in "love thy neighbor", therefore all are still valid except arguably keeping the Sabbath.

 

[IronChariots]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

The Hebrew word for "children" in this passage is actually translated to "young men"
The fact that 42 were mauled shows this was not little kids making fun of a man being bald but more like an attack by a mob.
The children saying "go up" was likely in reference to Elisha being caught up in Heaven which means the boys were ridiculing a prophet of God.



This passage says nothing about a little boy. Only "rebellious son" This passage likely means a couples young adult son who was a drunkard or violent and caused shame and dishonor to them.

It is important to pay close attention to context and translation.

How does that make killing them any better?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

How does that make killing them any better?

Good question. I guess the best way to explain it is thinking about Capitol punishment today. Of course you and I don't get lethal injection for dishonoring our parents but that's not where I'm going.

Laws are put in place for us to abide by. We have knowledge of these laws, and knowledge of the consequences. Back then death was the punishment. It's a pretty harsh punishment, but that's how it was. If you break the law you face the consequences.

 

[megaman125]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

How about you post the verses that explain so I can see if you actually know what you're talking about?

So I challenge you, and now you want to turn it around on me to cover up for the fact that you have no idea what I'm talking about. Typical intellectually dishonest tactics right there.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

1. That's not from Leviticus. You claimed that Leviticus told us to kill bratty children.
2. This isn't even a commandment. It's recording an event.
3. Those 42 aren't innocent like you make them out to be. They hated God and hated God's Word and instead favored doctrines of demons.

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

1. This still is not from Leviticus.
2. Given your failure to meet the challenge I gave you, it's obvious you don't know what this means. Should I even ask you to explain the context of everything here? Would you even be able to do it?

All who curse theirfather or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capitaloffense. Leviticus 20:9

Define "curse" in context with Leviticus 20:9, meaning, tell me how the Bible is using the word "curse," and not some modern definition about 4 letter words.

 

[Yahwhat]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

1. That's not from Leviticus. You claimed that Leviticus told us to kill bratty children.
2. This isn't even a commandment. It's recording an event.
3. Those 42 aren't innocent like you make them out to be. They hated God and hated God's Word and instead favored doctrines of demons.

Well it looks like they just made fun of the guy because he was bald, I mean unless you're adding
your own interpretation to it.

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will" (2 Peter 1:20)

So I challenge you, and now you want to turn it around on me to cover up for the fact that you have no idea what I'm talking about. Typical intellectually dishonest tactics right there.

And sorry, I didn't know I was limited to Leviticus only. I was just using your own method and
logic against you but now you see how annoying it is, right?

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22)

I don't know about you guys but being ripped apart and eaten by wild animals would be
one of the worst ways to go. I don't know if I can bring myself to believe these passages.

 

[Yahwhat]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Are there any Bible verses that mention the new covenant specifically? I'm not looking for
anything vague.

 

[JimJimmers]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Are there any Bible verses that mention the new covenant specifically? I'm not looking for
anything vague.

31“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[megaman125]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Well it looks like they just made fun of the guy because he was bald, I mean unless you're adding
your own interpretation to it.

Or I read the Bible and read about how the people of that area rejected God and worshiped idols. There's certainly a lot more going on then a few people just merely pointing and saying "ha ha he's bald." Remember, God judges the heart, and this event was a judgment from God. God knew how these people were rejecting Him.

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will"

(2 Peter 1:20)

This isn't about prophecy...

And sorry, I didn't know I was limited to Leviticus only. I was just using your own method and logic against you but now you see how annoying it is, right?

That wasn't "my logic" you were using. However, I did make a mistake. It was Tracerbullet who claimed that Leviticus says to kill bratty kids. I asked Tracer to back up that claim. Then you atempted to back up Tracer, unfortunately for you, you didn't back him up, because you didn't quote from Leviticus. That's why he (and you, since you grouped yourself with him now) are confined to Leviticus becuase Tracer is the one making the claim ABOUT WHAT LEVITICUS SAYS.

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.

(Leviticus 26:21-22)

Well, I'll give you credit for posting from Leviticus. However:

1. This still is not a commandment.
2. This passage does not tell us to kill bratty kids

If you want to back up Tracer's claim that Leviticus says to kill bratty kids, then back him up and actually post a passage from Leviticus that says that.

I don't know about you guys but being ripped apart and eaten by wild animals would be one of the worst ways to go. I don't know if I can bring myself to believe these passages.

A post like this makes me wonder how much you know about God. Yes, God is merciful and loving, and inviting. God is also a holy judge, and God does judge the sins of the wicked. If you don't beleive God judges sin, then I'm not sure you believe the God of the Scriptures. I'm almost afraid to ask what you think about God's coming judgment of the world's sins, or if you think that's even going to happen.

Yeah, it's not pretty, but you know what else isn't pretty? Sin and the complete rejection of God's love and mercy.

 

[megaman125]

Re: Christian Pastor:‘I Believe That the Government Should Use the Death Penalty’ on

Are there any Bible verses that mention the new covenant specifically? I'm not looking for
anything vague.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
Hebrews 8:7

(Although, be sure to read the whole chapter/book in context so you get the full meaning about the 2 covenants)