Christ's Furthest Ancestor

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Webers.Home

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)

A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

• Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_
 
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On numerous occasions, Jesus identified himself as "son of man" which is an
identity that the original Adam could never pin on himself because he wasn't
a previous man's progeny.

In the same vein, if Jesus is truly an Adam, then he too should not be able
to identify himself as a son of man because as an Adam he would not be a
previous man's progeny.

In other words: both the original Adam and the last Adam are the beginners
of their kind instead of more of their kind.

Ergo: when Jesus says he is the son of man, he is saying that he is more of
his kind rather than the beginner of his kind; otherwise the normal concept
of a "son" as someone's offspring has no rational significance in the real
world.
_
 
Webers.Home said:
.
FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)

A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from
already created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as
much the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's
posterity just as much as they would be hers because every part of the
posterity's bodies-- including their brains --would be constructed with
material taken from their mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed
with material taken from Adam's body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen
3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage
predicted Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so,
then he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily
parts and functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused
by conception.

• Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall
name him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed
would have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the
slightest hint of sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological
posterity of Eve's body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the
origin of Mary's seed; and if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's
body.
_
Click to expand...

Quite. But there is a slight difficulty. 1st Corinthians 15:22 says that, "as IN Adam all men die". And Romans 6:23 says that death is caused by "sin" (singular) - the Adamic nature (Rom.5:12). If we establish Christ IN Adam we create a problem. I think the solution is found in 1st Corinthians 11:8-12.

8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman OF the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also BY the woman; but all things of God."

In verse 8 Adam is the man. And so Eve is OF ("ek" - Gk.) the man. Eve is "out of" the man, but not by seed. And this, before the fall. But in verse 12, once the Law of seeds is established (Gen.1:11-12), the man is BY ("dia" - Gk.) the woman. Thereafter is the man "caused" by the woman via seed. The line of Adam's SEED is broken by the Holy Spirit, not the woman's.

As a footnote, the term, "Adam, the son of God" in Luke 3 means that Adam had his origin in God as Creator, not via a birth from God. But our Lord Jesus is "Son of God" because "this day I have begotten thee" says Jehovah of Jesus.
 
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FAQ: Can it be known for certain whether Jesus' mom was biologically
related to David?

A: Yes; very easily.

First off: David is said to be Jesus' ancestor.

• Luke 1:32 . . He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.

Now, a clever sophist could construe that verse to mean Jesus was David's
descendant by some other means besides biologically; however the Bible
also says:

• Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a
bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to
biological progeny; for example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's seed is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

Seeing as how Joseph wasn't Jesus' biological father, then we're left with
Jesus' mom as the default path of flesh connecting to David's flesh.
_
 
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Corban said:
"as IN Adam all men die"
Click to expand...


Had not Christ been executed, he would've eventually died of old age just
like everybody else.

• Heb 2:14-17 . . Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in
their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the
power of death-- that is, the devil --and free those who all their lives were
held in slavery by their fear of death.

. . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this
reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he
might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that
he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

In other words: Jesus' body wasn't superhuman, i.e. immortal. Prior to his
resurrection, Jesus' body was just as mortal as those of his friends. In point
of fact, it was essential that his body be mortal so he could die for them.

And also, he would not be a true kinsman had his body been immortal. A
man who's never himself walked thru the valley of the shadow of death
cannot possibly be the kind of priest that we can all relate to, viz: he could
be a priest, but certainly not a compassionate priest whom we can trust with
our deepest feelings.
_
 
Webers.Home said:
.



Had not Christ been executed, he would've eventually died of old age just
like everybody else.

• Heb 2:14-17 . . Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in
their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the
power of death-- that is, the devil --and free those who all their lives were
held in slavery by their fear of death.

. . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this
reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he
might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that
he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

In other words: Jesus' body wasn't superhuman, i.e. immortal. Prior to his
resurrection, Jesus' body was just as mortal as those of his friends. In point
of fact, it was essential that his body be mortal so he could die for them.

And also, he would not be a true kinsman had his body been immortal. A
man who's never himself walked thru the valley of the shadow of death
cannot possibly be the kind of priest that we can all relate to, viz: he could
be a priest, but certainly not a compassionate priest whom we can trust with
our deepest feelings.
_
Click to expand...

I think you are mixing up the destiny of a sinless man and the possibilities for his body. The word "immortal" pertains to a body that CANNOT die. This is only attained by TWO things:
  1. If Adam ("also") had eaten of the Tree of Life he would "have lived forever" (Gen.3:22)
  2. When Adam is resurrected he cannot die again (Heb.9:27) for he is like the angels who cannot die (Lk.20:35-36).
But BEFORE the fall, Adam had the propensity to die even though he had not sinned. But the MECHANISM of death would have no power because he had not yet sinned. This is the case of our Lord Jesus. Old age is not the cause of death. Sin (singular) is (Rom.6:23). Since our Lord was without sin the mechanism of death could not work. Even after His death by Substitution, his flesh did not rot in the grave. Our Lord belonged to the ORDER of Melchisedec. That He was a man is shown in Hebrews 5:6-7 "who in the days of His FLESH ... ". But had he not been a SUBSTITUTE in death, He would have been, "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life."
 
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Most Christians readily attest that Jesus is fully Man and fully God, but in
reality they believe he's mostly God and only partially Man.
_
 
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