Clean and Unclean Food.

[Stravinsk]

Of the old testament laws, the ones regarding food is something I've learned to respect. When people parrot various Scriptures indicating that they think all things are clean because they are believer, then I wonder if that conviction would hold, if, say, they were offered a bit of under cooked chicken(meat with blood in it). I'd also wonder what conclusion they would draw if they got sick from shellfish poisoning. Or weather they would really eat a scavenging animal like a vulture.

Yes, I know that in the new testament it says that "by saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean" - however - I wonder if the reader has actually considered that what he or she and Jesus called "food" are two different things? A Jew would never call pork "food", and most westerners would never call certain insects eaten in places like Thailand "food".

Really seems like a circular argument to defend eating whatever one's particular culture says is "food".

Imo, there is wisdom in the OT food laws.

 

[Hellooo]

there's a difference between foods that lead to poisoning (badly prepared seafood, undercooked chicken, salmonella-tainted spinach leaves) and variety in cultural cuisines (insects vs beef vs pork)

compare apples to apples.

 

[KennethC]

Of the old testament laws, the ones regarding food is something I've learned to respect. When people parrot various Scriptures indicating that they think all things are clean because they are believer, then I wonder if that conviction would hold, if, say, they were offered a bit of under cooked chicken(meat with blood in it). I'd also wonder what conclusion they would draw if they got sick from shellfish poisoning. Or weather they would really eat a scavenging animal like a vulture.

Yes, I know that in the new testament it says that "by saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean" - however - I wonder if the reader has actually considered that what he or she and Jesus called "food" are two different things? A Jew would never call pork "food", and most westerners would never call certain insects eaten in places like Thailand "food".

Really seems like a circular argument to defend eating whatever one's particular culture says is "food".

Imo, there is wisdom in the OT food laws.

No it only becomes foolish to the one who is starving and the only thing around to eat is those insects or scavenging type animal around to eat.

Also in stating under cooked food where blood is still in it, well the NT still concurs with that it should not be eaten in Acts 15:20,29. From things offered to idols, blood, and things strangled !!!

If you want to still follow those food ordinances of what you can and can not eat from the OT then that is fine and is your choice. However it says you are not to push or force those ways on others who do eat those things, and we are not to push or force to eat them on you. Because neither of us are any more commended to God then the other !!!

We are all still believers in Christ and will be in heaven !!!

 

[Stravinsk]

Hmm. Well, whatever. I don't believe that merely stating my view is "pushing" or "forcing" it on anyone. The fact stands that there are a number of ailments one can get from eating certain things, even properly prepared things. For example, often shellfish can contain certain toxins that cannot be destroyed either by proper cooking, freezing etc. If your understanding of the faith says you can eat them, that is up to you. I'm not going to lobby anyone to manage anyone else's consumption habits, lol. And if your culture wants to call something food and you want to use that Scripture to back it up, that's also your business.

 

[ENLIGHTEND]

U CANT EAT SHELLFISH AND A NUMBER OF THINGS LEVITICUSANY NUMBERS AND DEAUTRONOMY HAS THE LAW. MY SPELLING IS TERRABLE.
ANYWAY HAVE A GOOD NIGHT

 

[atwhatcost]

Hmm. Well, whatever. I don't believe that merely stating my view is "pushing" or "forcing" it on anyone. The fact stands that there are a number of ailments one can get from eating certain things, even properly prepared things. For example, often shellfish can contain certain toxins that cannot be destroyed either by proper cooking, freezing etc. If your understanding of the faith says you can eat them, that is up to you. I'm not going to lobby anyone to manage anyone else's consumption habits, lol. And if your culture wants to call something food and you want to use that Scripture to back it up, that's also your business.

People have become sick eating lettuce.

People have become sick eating broccoli.

There's a fresh water fish called a Rock Bass. It's really a member of the sunfish family more than the bass family, but either fish is "clean." Delicious too. (I've always liked sunnies and rock bass better than smallmouths or large mouths for the taste. I ate the bass and pike because they're the sport in fishing, and it's a well-earned dinner if one of us catches one.) But I learned later that the rock bass has a parasite in it. It's like worms. (It might be worms, but it looks more like a grub.) Can't see them in spring. Can see them by September. If they live through digesting them in our stomach, they will detach into our intestines. They kill many rock bass.

All these are clean foods that can also make people sick.

I get you only observed what you know and then tried to make it biblical.

I recommend making what is Biblical priority over what you know. We can't keep presuming dietary laws past what the Bible says because it never works like that.

After all, is lettuce, broccoli or raspberries against the Biblical law? Who knows? They weren't plants in the middle east back then.

 

[KennethC]

Hmm. Well, whatever. I don't believe that merely stating my view is "pushing" or "forcing" it on anyone. The fact stands that there are a number of ailments one can get from eating certain things, even properly prepared things. For example, often shellfish can contain certain toxins that cannot be destroyed either by proper cooking, freezing etc. If your understanding of the faith says you can eat them, that is up to you. I'm not going to lobby anyone to manage anyone else's consumption habits, lol. And if your culture wants to call something food and you want to use that Scripture to back it up, that's also your business.

I was not implying that you were forcing or pushing how you feel on others, just only making a statement of what the bible says that those who eat certain things and those that don't are no less saved in the faith then the other.

Our faith in the Lord does not hinder on what we eat and don't eat !!!

Yes some things can cause aliments even if properly cooked and I understand that, but if a person still chooses to eat such things that is up to them. Also are you going to limit the cleansing power of God to say He can not cleanse something that is unclean if you pray over it ???

 

[didymos]

...

Clean Insects...

No such thing.

 

[Stravinsk]

People have become sick eating lettuce.

People have become sick eating broccoli.

There's a fresh water fish called a Rock Bass. It's really a member of the sunfish family more than the bass family, but either fish is "clean." Delicious too. (I've always liked sunnies and rock bass better than smallmouths or large mouths for the taste. I ate the bass and pike because they're the sport in fishing, and it's a well-earned dinner if one of us catches one.) But I learned later that the rock bass has a parasite in it. It's like worms. (It might be worms, but it looks more like a grub.) Can't see them in spring. Can see them by September. If they live through digesting them in our stomach, they will detach into our intestines. They kill many rock bass.

All these are clean foods that can also make people sick.

I get you only observed what you know and then tried to make it biblical.

I recommend making what is Biblical priority over what you know. We can't keep presuming dietary laws past what the Bible says because it never works like that.

After all, is lettuce, broccoli or raspberries against the Biblical law? Who knows? They weren't plants in the middle east back then.

*Chuckle*. If you want to make an argument that completely leaves out context, that is also up to you. Broccoli and lettuce do not normally make people sick. Of course, if they've gone bad or exposed to contact with RAW MEAT, this is a different story.

 

[Stravinsk]

I was not implying that you were forcing or pushing how you feel on others, just only making a statement of what the bible says that those who eat certain things and those that don't are no less saved in the faith then the other.

If that was the argument you were making, perhaps a better word choice would suit it better.

Our faith in the Lord does not hinder on what we eat and don't eat !!!

Yes some things can cause aliments even if properly cooked and I understand that, but if a person still chooses to eat such things that is up to them. Also are you going to limit the cleansing power of God to say He can not cleanse something that is unclean if you pray over it ???

How would my understanding or faith (or lack of it) limit anything for *someone else* consuming something?

As for cleansing unclean or not properly prepared, when is the last time you ate some undercooked chicken in faith that God will cleanse it if you will it? Would you?

 

[maxwel]

People have become sick eating lettuce.

People have become sick eating broccoli.

Unclean! Unclean!

 

[Omni]

I suspect that the reason for foods being "unclean" was because way back when, lots of foods carried diseases that weren't able to be avoided, but which can be avoided nowadays. People didn't eat shellfish much in Jewish times because the only way to stop a shellfish from dying is to keep it wet and cool; obviously, in a hot country like Israel, this was a problem, and since shellfish, once dead, decay rapidly and produce seriously harmful bacteria and toxins, eating shellfish in ancient Israel would have meant at best severe stomach cramps and vomiting, and at worst death.

Nowadays, we have readily available ice-water, fridges, and comparatively high food hygiene standards.

 

[Tintin]

I suspect that the reason for foods being "unclean" was because way back when, lots of foods carried diseases that weren't able to be avoided, but which can be avoided nowadays. People didn't eat shellfish much in Jewish times because the only way to stop a shellfish from dying is to keep it wet and cool; obviously, in a hot country like Israel, this was a problem, and since shellfish, once dead, decay rapidly and produce seriously harmful bacteria and toxins, eating shellfish in ancient Israel would have meant at best severe stomach cramps and vomiting, and at worst death.

Nowadays, we have readily available ice-water, fridges, and comparatively high food hygiene standards.

Yes, part of it was to do with hygenie. But the major part of it was to do with God wanting His people to be separate from their pagan neighbours (holy) and by practicing these things (which would affect their everyday life) remember His Covenant with them.

 

[Stravinsk]

I suspect that the reason for foods being "unclean" was because way back when, lots of foods carried diseases that weren't able to be avoided, but which can be avoided nowadays. People didn't eat shellfish much in Jewish times because the only way to stop a shellfish from dying is to keep it wet and cool; obviously, in a hot country like Israel, this was a problem, and since shellfish, once dead, decay rapidly and produce seriously harmful bacteria and toxins, eating shellfish in ancient Israel would have meant at best severe stomach cramps and vomiting, and at worst death.

Nowadays, we have readily available ice-water, fridges, and comparatively high food hygiene standards.

Shellfish poisoning is still a real problem. There are sometimes toxins in shellfish that no amount of ice water, freezing or cooling or cooking can destroy. Check out the wonderful symptoms you can get from these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellfish_poisoning

 

[pwrnJC]

God's creation, in it's entirety, was pronounced "GOOD" in His own words. Everything was for man's benefit, one way or another. Man was made the caretaker, initially. That failed miserably and we're still suffering from it. Personally, I eat all kinds of foods, yes, even tried tasty insects. My Bible expresses the idea that 'offending" someone by the choices made as to eating certain foods, is the least important issue compaired to winning that person to CHRIST. Win them to JESUS first and then let the Holy Spirit deal with them when it comes to filling up at the buffet bar.

A pastor friend of mine decided to grow a very handsome, masculine beard. However, this offended a certain elderly founding member of the church and she stopped attending services. He called, he sent cards, but she would not respond. After a long while, he decided to win her favor and show her respect. HE shaved off his beautiful well maintained beard and knocked on her door. She had already peeked through her curtains, and she opened up her door and they both wrapped arms around each other, crying and rejoicing. She returned from her lengthy leave of absence and once again, the church benefitted from her presence.