Controversy

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radical_christian

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#1
Today, I was remembering a day in biology when my class had a discussion on the stem cell research. My question is what do you think of it? How do you defend your point of view?

Just to clarify my purpose is not to offend anyone but to see what the majority of the people think.
I am against it. What about you?
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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#2
In some ways I had seen good in stem cell research. As long as embryonic stem cells had not been used. My own daughter has a genetic delition. If treament would help her it would be a blessing. But because of the use of embryos she and I can not ever choose this option. Since the research has used these babys it made it corrupt. The other concern is how enginering has made some believe that they are obove God. Sadly it seems that even in our endevor to to good evil finds a way to corrupt. God bless, pickles
 
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radical_christian

Guest
#3
I agree with you pickles and i am sorry to hear about your daughter. God bless you too.
 
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suaso

Guest
#4
embryonic stem cell research: not good.
stem cells from non-embryonic sources: iffy.

I think we need to learn to bear our crosses.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Embryonic Stem Cell Research in the Perspective of Orthodox Christianity

A Statement of the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America



Dearly-beloved in the Lord:


The current debate over research on embryonic stem cells raises in the starkest way a crucial moral question concerning the ultimate meaning and value of human life.


From the perspective of Orthodox Christianity, human life begins at conception (meaning fertilization with creation of the single-cell zygote). This conviction is grounded in the Biblical witness (e.g., Ps 139:13-16; Isaiah 49:1ff; Luke 1:41,44), as well as in the scientifically established fact that from conception there exists genetic uniqueness and cellular differentiation that, if the conceptus is allowed to develop normally, will produce a live human being.(1) Human life is sacred from its very beginning, since from conception it is ensouled existence. As such, it is "personal" existence, created in the image of God and endowed with a sanctity that destines it for eternal life.


Conservative, pro-life voices throughout the country have enthusiastically praised President Bush's recent decision regarding scientific research using human embryonic stem cells (ESCR). That decision would allow research on some sixty lines of existing stem cells, developed from human embryos which were destroyed as the cells were harvested. It would prohibit creation of embryos for research purposes, and it urges further study into the feasibility of utilizing adult stem cells to achieve the same therapeutic ends envisioned for embryonic stem cells. These limitations, it is argued, would ensure that extra embryos resulting from in vitro fertilization techniques would not be subjected to manipulation by researchers, nor would embryos be created, by cloning or any other means, for the specific purpose of serving as research subjects.


We, the Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, applaud the President's initiative in seeking a reasonable compromise between assuring protection of human life at every stage of its development, and exploring the potential therapeutic benefits to be derived from pluripotent stem cells. We are gratified that he has expressed unambiguous opposition to human cloning. We cannot, however, condone the manipulation of embryonic cells in any form for research purposes, including lines developed from destroyed embryos. Rather, we can only express dismay at the fact that the debate over this issue has avoided major considerations regarding the very meaning and value of human life.


President Bush's proposal to use only the existing sixty lines of stem cells (2) because the embryos had already been destroyed (i.e., killed) falters on the precept enunciated by the apostle Paul in Romans 3:8, "We may not do evil so that good may come." The very act of destroying those embryos is evil, and we may not profit from evil even to achieve a good and noble end.


Although the President's Solomonic decision appears to serve pro-life interests, in fact it unwittingly opens the floodgates to ever more utilitarian manipulation of human life. Research on existing stem cell lines should be prohibited for the simple reason that those embryos should never have been created in the first place. The moral line has been crossed, and Mr. Bush's proposed limitations do little to prevent an inevitable descent down an increasingly slippery slope.


Our opposition to ESCR is based on the following considerations, which are political as well as medical and theological.


In the first place, debate on this issue has too often overlooked the fact that among the most vocal proponents of embryo research are pro-abortion activists, supported by much of the media. If the government refuses to fund such research, it would thereby tacitly acknowledge that human life begins at conception. This flies in the face of abortion legislation such as Roe v. Wade and would inevitably undermine the view that an embryo is merely a clump of tissue and can therefore be aborted on demand with no moral consequences. The real issue underlying the debate, then, is less the development of potential therapies than the preservation of so-called "abortion rights."(3)


Second, enormous pressures to legalize and federally fund embryonic stem cell research is coming from the biotech and pharmaceutical industries, because of the promise of nearly limitless profits. The "new medicine" based on stem cell therapies is largely driven by the marketplace. As with AIDS medications and other recently developed therapies, market forces will determine who has access to them, and at what cost.


Third, it should be noted that in the recent past (1992) scientists were touting the exceptional benefits of fetal tissue, particularly in the treatment of illnesses such as Parkinson's disease. To date, such therapies have been a disappointment. Some Parkinson's patients, in fact, have suffered irreversible damage due to the introduction of foreign cells into their brains. And no new medicines of significance have been produced using fetal cells. Claims that embryonic stem cells will produce a panacea are likely to be equally exaggerated.


Fourth, the slippery slope of ESCR is dangerous and potentially irreversible. Already an Australian company, in November 2000, received a patent to create chimeras: animals with body tissue and organs produced using human stem cells. And in February 2001, a team of San Francisco researchers announced that they had created a strain of mice, one quarter of whose brains were composed of human cells. In just thirty years the utilitarian slope has taken us from legalized abortion to partial-birth abortion, to physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia, in addition to acceptance of fetal tissue therapy and destruction of embryos to harvest stem cells. Unless moral persuasion can reverse the trend, the slope will lead to a tragic devaluation of human life.


Fifth, ever since the Holocaust the principle has been universally accepted by the scientific community that no experimentation should be undertaken on human subjects without the subject's informed consent. Obviously, such consent cannot be granted by an embryo (nor, by the way, by a two-year old). Neither the mother nor anyone else has "proxy" rights in this regard over the life and well-being of a Child in utero or in vitro.


Sixth, ESCR relies on cloning to produce multiple copies of the cells under investigation. Cloning in animal experiments has a failure rate on the order of 95%, and mice and other animals produced through cloning have been born with serious genetic defects. The cloning of human embryos for research purposes presents similar dangers, and for this reason alone it should be permanently banned.
Finally, it has been proved recently that adult stem cells, together with those harvested from placentas and umbilical cords, hold as much if not more promise than embryonic stem cells. In May, 2001, the prestigious scientific journal Cell published a report showing that adult bone marrow cells have an extraordinary capacity to differentiate into epithelial cells of the liver, lung, GI tract and skin. The report noted that "This finding may contribute to clinical treatment of genetic disease or tissue repair."(4) In August, 2001, researchers reported finding adult stem cells in mouse brains that were used to produce muscle cells; and a Canadian team isolated "versatile" (pluripotent) cells in mice that produced neural, muscle and fat cells. This means that in the relatively near future it should be possible to harvest stem cells from a patient's skin, multiply them by cloning, and use them for therapeutic purposes, including the growing of new organs.


In conclusion, we firmly reject any and all manipulation of human embryos for research purposes as inherently immoral and a fundamental violation of human life. We call upon the President and the Congress of the United States to restore and maintain a total ban on ESCR. Furthermore, we encourage the scientific community to reject pressures for ESCR exerted by the pro-abortionist lobby, the biotech and pharmaceutical industries, and to devote their energies and resources to discovering, harvesting and utilizing non-embryonic stem cells, including those derived from adults, placentas and umbilical cords.
Above all, we urge our faithful, together with the medical community and political leaders, to return to the spirit of the Hippocratic Oath: primum non nocere, "First of all, do no harm." Embryonic stem cell research results in unmitigated harm. It should be unequivocally rejected in the interests of preserving both the sacredness and the dignity of the human person.


With love in the Lord, the Source of Life,


+THEODOSIUS Archbishop of Washington Metropolitan of All America and Canada
And the members of the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America:
+KYRILL Archbishop of Pittsburgh and Western Pennsylvania
+PETER Archbishop of New York and New Jersey
+DMITRI Archbishop of Dallas and the South
+HERMAN Archbishop of Philadelphia and Eastern Pennsylvania
+NATHANIEL Archbishop of Detroit and the Romanian Episcopate
+JOB Bishop of Chicago and the Midwest
+TIKHON Bishop of San Francisco and the West
+SERAPHIM Bishop of Ottawa and Canada +NIKOLAI Bishop of Baltimore
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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#6
I knew the moment of conception with all of my children. I cannot offer more than the evidence of my words. But I felt their life begin. I knew in my heart that I had recieved a gift and the funny part was I knew each of them even then. I never really could explain how but I am greatful that Our Lord God gave me this gift. God bless, pickles
 
Aug 25, 2009
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#7
all emerging sciences are feared and hated by christians at first. they'll get the bugs worked out eventually and then someday it wont be an issue.
 
May 4, 2009
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Okay if your of the world then stem cell research is amazing however we are not and no man or woman has the right to play God. The real issue is that science like this spits in the face of our God. I know people want to be healthy but you can't go against God's order of things. People get sick people die, you can't manipulate when someone leaves this mortal coil.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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#9
ya know i heard something really crazy that spits in the face of god. there were these doctors trying to say that there is actually something wrong in the brain that would cause someone to thrash around in fits. they called it something ridiculous like epilepsy or somesuch nonsense. as we all know, ppl who act this way are actually possessed by demons and should be executed as the good lord instructs. i have also heard sinful claims that men are trying to fly around in some kind of mechanical contraption. if the the lord meant man to fly, he would have given us wings.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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#10
ya know i heard something really crazy that spits in the face of god. there were these doctors trying to say that there is actually something wrong in the brain that would cause someone to thrash around in fits. they called it something ridiculous like epilepsy or somesuch nonsense. as we all know, ppl who act this way are actually possessed by demons and should be executed as the good lord instructs. i have also heard sinful claims that men are trying to fly around in some kind of mechanical contraption. if the the lord meant man to fly, he would have given us wings.

Again, if you check out translations you'll find that the early Christians and Jews didn't consider epilepsy to be demon possession. I believe the NIV and a few other translations use the word epilepsy. However, that's a case of dynamic equivalence. Some folks start teaching that the boy that shook violently was probably epileptic so they went ahead and translated "Lunatic" into epileptic. Have to love the Western world.

Lunatics in the Hellenistic world actually had to do with Lunar cycles and a certain medical condition that could be exaggerated BY demons etc. Kind of like when it's easier to act out when you're really really tired.

You can look this stuff up and study it n' stuff. *shrug

Your comment about executions is a generalization of the purity laws that don't even relate to Christianity and can't even be found in modern Judaism...

Science and religion were and are pretty good fellows. However, there are some circles that see science as a threat to the way they understand God's reality. The other thing to consider is that you have to admit that there have been some really horrible things done in the name of science. Look at that government program that purposefully gave STDs to blacks in order to search for cures. I'm sure they justified their actions in the name of the greater good but, er, you have to admit, it's not right. Downright evil, in fact. Nothing wrong with voicing the need for checks and balances.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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#11
ryan you just love to say that its all in the translation. pretty convenient. you must be proud of how you know a few words of antiquated languages. i know how that feels since i know so many harry potter spells. its fun to feel like you know something other ppl dont.
actually my comment was supposed to be a generalization of the ridiculous superstitions of the early catholic church such as drilling holes in the head to release demons. of course you could look this stuff up and study and stuff, maybe learn something.
i was trying to be funny but im not so good at it.
its just scary to hear ppl like kdizzle actually saying that it goes against gods will to try to save lives using modern medical science. thats medieval, dark age mentality. thats what i was trying to say in a funny way, but failing apparently.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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#12
ryan you just love to say that its all in the translation. pretty convenient. you must be proud of how you know a few words of antiquated languages. i know how that feels since i know so many harry potter spells. its fun to feel like you know something other ppl dont.
actually my comment was supposed to be a generalization of the ridiculous superstitions of the early catholic church such as drilling holes in the head to release demons. of course you could look this stuff up and study and stuff, maybe learn something.
i was trying to be funny but im not so good at it.
its just scary to hear ppl like kdizzle actually saying that it goes against gods will to try to save lives using modern medical science. thats medieval, dark age mentality. thats what i was trying to say in a funny way, but failing apparently.
Ahhhhh, ok. Yeah, I missed the comedy. :p

No, definitely not saying it's all in the translation. And no, I don't know the languages but you just come across this stuff when you start looking into it. The whole demon thing bothered me for awhile. Still does. :p

Foiled again..


I'll get you next time my pretty and yer little dog too! :D (green cause the witch is green, get it? suitable, right? Fits with your Harry Potter comment too. Bonus points.)
 
Aug 25, 2009
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#13
oh, ryan, there are no green witches in harry potter. so you get no points.
what demon thing bothers you?
 
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