Disobedience must be cast down.

[Stephen63]

Somehow I get the feeling that the author has a "pastors won't accept or recognize me, so I won't accept or recognize them" mentality. I've been there, & I can truthfully say it's childish & immature. It's holding a grudge. I had to be delivered of mine, cause it was spiritually killing me. There, I said it, I'm not as perfect as you think I am.

 

[Yet]

If only you guys would study his word then you'd see that I'm right, no brag, just fact.

 

[Yet]

(there, fixed it)

Well then if thats the case you just accused every writer in the NT of being envious of the wolves and hirelings. That means you also accused Christ of being envious of the Pharisees. You might want to rethink your position here. And then repent of such accusations.

Crossnote, I wouldn't have to be hammering on this continually if you guys were getting it. But you're not getting it, so I have to keep hammering on it. Knowwhatimean?.

 

[crossnote]

Well then if thats the case you just accused every writer in the NT of being envious of the wolves and hirelings. That means you also accused Christ of being envious of the Pharisees. You might want to rethink your position here. And then repent of such accusations.

Crossnote, I wouldn't have to be hammering on this continually if you guys were getting it. But you're not getting it, so I have to keep hammering on it. Knowwhatimean?.

i also know...

Acts 20:29-30 KJVS
[29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


Fine, you might go pastor a congregation somewhere where you can set an example instead of strumming on a one stringed instrument here on CC. Your bitterness towards pastors is glaring, maybe others can have roasted YET when you start pastoring.

 

[Yet]

ok so if we get rid of the pastor then who will teach the church? Like how would that work exactly? I cannot say that a lot of pastors are doing the best but if we take them away then who will teach ppl?

Ive submitted 1Cor.12 and Ephesians 4 and Romans 12 a zillion times. Have you read them?

 

[Yet]

i also know...

Acts 20:29-30 KJVS
[29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. [30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


Fine, you might go pastor a congregation somewhere where you can set an example instead of strumming on a one stringed instrument here on CC. Your bitterness towards pastors is glaring, maybe others can have roasted YET when you start pastoring.

So now you also call the writers of the NT bitter. That means you are calling Christ bitter. I teach the word of God, that means I'm bitter. I guess I get a little steamed when I'm working with rebels, for that I apologize. But I do not apologize For His word.
Not only that but you are judging my heart, that's a no,no, you know! Please , please say I have a devil. That's what the religious leaders said about Jesus.

You attack me when all I am doing is teaching that 'gospel once delivered unto the Saints'. Attack on. I ain't mad at ya! My backs big enough!
And I won't go and be an exalted pastor for pay. That would be rebellion and sin against the Son of God. Besides that, because I refuse to have the folks make me a god and I refuse to pull the satanic tithe, they'll not have me! They want a king Saul to rule them, not Christ.

 

[Yet]

ok so if we get rid of the pastor then who will teach the church? Like how would that work exactly? I cannot say that a lot of pastors are doing the best but if we take them away then who will teach ppl?

First things first. You couldn't find one verse to support the single pastor concept could you? So you are concluding that God messed things up. You r saying how can we learn anything if we don't have the single salaried pastor?
The answer is in the word of God. A plurality of pastors taking turns teaching. Some teach as their main function. Not one man muscled his way to control as we have today. Diotrephes tried.

So at least you finally have to agree that the 'pastors', so called, of today are not endorsed by the bible. That's a good first step.

Below you can go to truthforfree.com for a ton of studies on NT assembly. Put on your crash helmet, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Truth has that affect on those mesmerized by 1700 years of 'shading' that truth. Took me years of study and prayer to get detoxed from religious heresy and traditions of men that make void His word. It's a shock to the system. Don't feel bad. Most of the 'church' still can't see these things. God must pull back the veil. His timing.
I know why God waited years before He showed me the errors of Christendom. He had me live it, be a part of it, get destroyed by it, even teach it, then pull me out of it. Now nobody can tell me that I didn't give churchianity a chance.

Been there, done that, got the tainted T shirt along with a myriad of war wounds and scars.

But thanks be unto God for pulling me out of Babylon and setting my feet on the firm foundation of His glorious truth!

His word is now so beautiful and precious to me. It now all makes sense. I did not like reading the bible all the years I was in Babylon because of all the falsehood coming from the pulpit, the whole lay out, the whole deceptive MO! Reading it was a drag. I was studying it through the lens of apostate teaching and it just didn't jive.

The word is alive and the 'Truth' does set you free from religious bondage and the doctrines of Devils. Strong words I know. But when someone shades the truth for personal embellishment, it becomes a a doctrine of satan, detrimental to the sheep.

Christ come to set us free and most Christians are so bound up in financial trouble, marital trouble, depression, fear, addictions, and sickness and they try to pretend they are blessed and free in front of the 'church', knowing full well they are struggling, but to ashamed to admit it. Got to put on the smiling 'church' face and when somebody asks them how they're doing they say 'oh great' adding lying to the list of sins.

God's gonna put an end to the religious charade. He's going to bring down the haughty, exalted, lazy, pastors that are robbing the sheep of their incomes they need for food, medicine, utilities, rent, clothing, and heating.
The theft of God's people will come to an accounting. The forbidding of 'lording it over His heritage' is not a joke that God put in His word so folks could have a good laugh.
Stealing the widow woman's mite does not cause God to chuckle. Wrath and vengeance is coming upon all those that 'regard not the poor', Proverbs 29.
Oh I forgot ......can't use scripture on this site. It brings the wrath of some down on me. I'm the bad guy always. Have a nice day.

 

[Blain]

First things first. You couldn't find one verse to support the single pastor concept could you? So you are concluding that God messed things up. You r saying how can we learn anything if we don't have the single salaried pastor?
The answer is in the word of God. A plurality of pastors taking turns teaching. Some teach as their main function. Not one man muscled his way to control as we have today. Diotrephes tried.

So at least you finally have to agree that the 'pastors', so called, of today are not endorsed by the bible. That's a good first step.

Below you can go to truthforfree.com for a ton of studies on NT assembly. Put on your crash helmet, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Truth has that affect on those mesmerized by 1700 years of 'shading' that truth. Took me years of study and prayer to get detoxed from religious heresy and traditions of men that make void His word. It's a shock to the system. Don't feel bad. Most of the 'church' still can't see these things. God must pull back the veil. His timing.
I know why God waited years before He showed me the errors of Christendom. He had me live it, be a part of it, get destroyed by it, even teach it, then pull me out of it. Now nobody can tell me that I didn't give churchianity a chance.

Been there, done that, got the tainted T shirt along with a myriad of war wounds and scars.

But thanks be unto God for pulling me out of Babylon and setting my feet on the firm foundation of His glorious truth!

His word is now so beautiful and precious to me. It now all makes sense. I did not like reading the bible all the years I was in Babylon because of all the falsehood coming from the pulpit, the whole lay out, the whole deceptive MO! Reading it was a drag. I was studying it through the lens of apostate teaching and it just didn't jive.

The word is alive and the 'Truth' does set you free from religious bondage and the doctrines of Devils. Strong words I know. But when someone shades the truth for personal embellishment, it becomes a a doctrine of satan, detrimental to the sheep.

Christ come to set us free and most Christians are so bound up in financial trouble, marital trouble, depression, fear, addictions, and sickness and they try to pretend they are blessed and free in front of the 'church', knowing full well they are struggling, but to ashamed to admit it. Got to put on the smiling 'church' face and when somebody asks them how they're doing they say 'oh great' adding lying to the list of sins.

God's gonna put an end to the religious charade. He's going to bring down the haughty, exalted, lazy, pastors that are robbing the sheep of their incomes they need for food, medicine, utilities, rent, clothing, and heating.
The theft of God's people will come to an accounting. The forbidding of 'lording it over His heritage' is not a joke that God put in His word so folks could have a good laugh.
Stealing the widow woman's mite does not cause God to chuckle. Wrath and vengeance is coming upon all those that 'regard not the poor', Proverbs 29.
Oh I forgot ......can't use scripture on this site. It brings the wrath of some down on me. I'm the bad guy always. Have a nice day.

sorry for the late reply I have been a bit busy, actually I have found quite a few scriptures about being a pastor or rather a shepherd for God's flock

1 Peter 5:2-3

Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.


1 Timothy 3:2

Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 5:17

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

Ephesians 4:12

To equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

Acts 20:28 ESV / 25 helpful votes

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Hebrews 13:17

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you

I have many others as well, the bible clearly teaches of having one who guides the church and the flock to teach and to have the responsibility to guide his church and his sheep in the way they ought to go. reading the word alone is not enough because one can read the bible a hundred times but if they were never taught the way to go and the vital basics of being a Christian in the first place then they will be blind in their understanding of the word.

I am a special case in which I had no one to teach me but God himself I had no pastor and no one to show me and teach me what being a Christian is and how to read the word with the right eyes and heart except God himself. But this is not the path for everyone, everyone should seek to find a trust worthy and true Godly teacher to help them to encourage them to give them advice and to teach them just a babe in real life requires to be taught how to live in this world so is the same for any believer.

 

[Yet]

Thank you for putting a fine point on my submission. A plurality of elders. You still have not given one single verse thst validates the single pastor construct.
Now about Hebrews -3:17 the KJ translators twisted the original into a doctrine of demons.

First off the word 'rule' was added. Not in the original.

The KJ version: obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves.

The Greek: be persuaded by them that guide you. Yield to their persuasion or teaching.

 

[Blain]

Thank you for putting a fine point on my submission. A plurality of elders. You still have not given one single verse thst validates the single pastor construct.
Now about Hebrews -3:17 the KJ translators twisted the original into a doctrine of demons.

First off the word 'rule' was added. Not in the original.

The KJ version: obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves.

The Greek: be persuaded by them that guide you. Yield to their persuasion or teaching.

The bible a lot of times does not in specific words speak of something but it does speak of them. The rapture for instance, the rapture is a word made by use to describe an event spoken of in the bible pastor is a man made word for the shepherd or leader or teacher of the church, and in all the churches I have attended yes there was a pastor who was considered the lead teacher of the body within the church but never alone he or she always had people in his or her circle as sort of councilmen like how the president has congress to help with his decisions and this is also how it was with peter and the disciples. Yes Jesus said he would build his church on peter but peter didn't lead the church solely by himself and all on his authority.

The role that a pastor has is not one of complete authority and power a pastor always has more than one person to help with his decisions and teachings. But few people see and know about this they think the pastor is the leader of the church or the head of it but he isn't. it's like this one can be strong and lead by his own power and authority but one who is truly strong does not lean on himself alone but has many hands to help him when he is beginning to fall and takes into consideration the thoughts and views of others before deciding everything on his own. This is the same as the pastors and it is the same qas how it was with peter and the first church

 

[Stonemason]

You're still on some tangent from the original post that the cited scripture is supposed to be about "proper something something about pastors/ministers". It's not. It's from Paul about Paul's feelings on Paul's ministry contrasted to how the Corinthian church felt about Paul. You've made this entirely into something it is not.

 

[Yet]

The ecclesia was not built on Peter. Google it. It was built upon Jesus Christ? Study the Greek on the rock issue.

If you walked into a first century gathering and asked who the pastor is, you'd hear crickets. They'd be dumb founded. 'What part of the land of Oz is the guy from?'

Or all the elders would say in unison 'here we are'. One can be appointed to preside in turn, but the similarity to the modern pastor would end there.
Do you not find it strange that the modern pastor concept is no where in scripture?

Modern pastor: free rent parsonage. Doesn't work. Pulls tithes. Wears the title 'pastor'. Does the sunday morning sermon. Plays golf during the week and takes multiple vacations a year. If his air conditioner quits, church buys him another. Has to have a church building. If he quits and moves on, the church goes into free fall, panic mode. That means Christ is not in charge, the pastor was.

None of this squares with holy writ!

The comparing of the rapture with this missing individual won't work, unless of course he's already been raptured out! That would explain him missing...I guess!

All of Christendom does not hold the rapture as the main foundation of their existence but this missing guy, the single salaried pastor, is the main foundation of all of Christendom.

A ghost, an invisible individual totally missing in God's word, yet all the religious kingdoms built by man resting on this wisp of smoke, this stranger in the night. Indeed, the invisible man!
Would you not think that if God's eternal plan, His eternal kingdom, His foundation for all to be built on, would not happen, would not succeed, would not survive, and would not come to completion, without the single, at the top, salaried, titled pastor.....that He would have mentioned this guy somewhere in scripture? I mean just a paltry line or two? Zero, zip, nada. Nothing.
Paul never mentions him nor the other writers. (Maybe they were all jealous of him like I'm accused of).
No not even Tim or Titus were called to the laundry list I provided. They were fellow laborers with Paul. Not executive luxury living hirelings feeding off the poor...as is done today.

 

[Yet]

You're still on some tangent from the original post that the cited scripture is supposed to be about "proper something something about pastors/ministers". It's not. It's from Paul about Paul's feelings on Paul's ministry contrasted to how the Corinthian church felt about Paul. You've made this entirely into something it is not.

Hey! So we disagree. You can be wrong if you want to.

 

[Blain]

The ecclesia was not built on Peter. Google it. It was built upon Jesus Christ? Study the Greek on the rock issue.

If you walked into a first century gathering and asked who the pastor is, you'd hear crickets. They'd be dumb founded. 'What part of the land of Oz is the guy from?'

Or all the elders would say in unison 'here we are'. One can be appointed to preside in turn, but the similarity to the modern pastor would end there.
Do you not find it strange that the modern pastor concept is no where in scripture?

Modern pastor: free rent parsonage. Doesn't work. Pulls tithes. Wears the title 'pastor'. Does the sunday morning sermon. Plays golf during the week and takes multiple vacations a year. If his air conditioner quits, church buys him another. Has to have a church building. If he quits and moves on, the church goes into free fall, panic mode. That means Christ is not in charge, the pastor was.

None of this squares with holy writ!

The comparing of the rapture with this missing individual won't work, unless of course he's already been raptured out! That would explain him missing...I guess!

All of Christendom does not hold the rapture as the main foundation of their existence but this missing guy, the single salaried pastor, is the main foundation of all of Christendom.

A ghost, an invisible individual totally missing in God's word, yet all the religious kingdoms built by man resting on this wisp of smoke, this stranger in the night. Indeed, the invisible man!
Would you not think that if God's eternal plan, His eternal kingdom, His foundation for all to be built on, would not happen, would not succeed, would not survive, and would not come to completion, without the single, at the top, salaried, titled pastor.....that He would have mentioned this guy somewhere in scripture? I mean just a paltry line or two? Zero, zip, nada. Nothing.
Paul never mentions him nor the other writers. (Maybe they were all jealous of him like I'm accused of).
No not even Tim or Titus were called to the laundry list I provided. They were fellow laborers with Paul. Not executive luxury living hirelings feeding off the poor...as is done today.

Jesus said this Mathew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. That is why I spoke of Peter like I did, the name peter literally means rock. and while the churches true foundation is Jesus and is known as the rock that holds he left to peter to be the shepherd to lead the first generation of Christians not to be confused with being a pope as many Catholics would believe.

But the thing is pastors and the way the church is isn't going to change until the beginning of the end in which the true church will arise and the wheat and chaff will be separated and clearly seen for who they are. So i'm not sure why so many of your topics are about this subject knowing that this is how it is and won't change until then. Yet, I have said to you before that I believe you have the makings to be a teacher but if your so fixed on the issues withing the building of the church and the roles of ppl in it then you will never be able to truly teach. Before the church before knowing scripture through and through before seeking to be strong in faith God himself must always come first and a deep and intimate love and connection with him must be established before all of this.

I know that you think you are teaching the gospel but do you truly believe this? The gospel is about the love and the grace of God and is about the relationship with God and us sinners not the church or the pastors or the money issues within the church

 

[Magenta]

Jesus said this Mathew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. That is why I spoke of Peter like I did, the name peter literally means rock. and while the churches true foundation is Jesus and is known as the rock that holds he left to peter to be the shepherd to lead the first generation of Christians not to be confused with being a pope as many Catholics would believe.

Peter = Petros and the Rock of faith = Petra. They are distinguishable in the original Greek. Scripture attests many times that God is the Rock of our salvation. For instance, 2 Samuel 22:32
"For who is God, besides the LORD? And who is a rock, besides our God?"

or

Isaiah 44:8
'Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"

More: 57 Bible verses about God, The Rock