Does Constantine affect the ways we worship today and if so, how?

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RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#1
Oct 31, 2011
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#1
I have read a lot about this fascinating man. I have some views on this subject, but I am wondering what others think about what effect this man's life has on us today. He gathered the men who wrote the Nicene Creed, so I am sure most will think he had some effect, anyway.

Our world is in God's control. Do you think this was part of God's plan?

I am very elderly, I remember life more years ago than most any of you. Then, most knew nothing about Constantine. Now most people do. Do you think that is part of God's plan?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#2
#2
Here is a good video that can offer some thoughts on what is floating around out there.


[video=youtube;QjYM0z6jdlc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QjYM0z6jdlc[/video]
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#3
Nov 26, 2011
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RedTent said:
I have read a lot about this fascinating man. I have some views on this subject, but I am wondering what others think about what effect this man's life has on us today. He gathered the men who wrote the Nicene Creed, so I am sure most will think he had some effect, anyway.

Our world is in God's control. Do you think this was part of God's plan?

I am very elderly, I remember life more years ago than most any of you. Then, most knew nothing about Constantine. Now most people do. Do you think that is part of God's plan?
Click to expand...
Myth of Original Sin Part 1 (deals with what Constantine did)
[video=youtube;1VMCjurNoU8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VMCjurNoU8[/video]
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#4
#4
constantine had very little influence on the actual -development- of christian doctrine...his role in shaping christian doctrine was more like that of an enforcer for the church...the bishops told him what was christian truth and constantine by various methods including force sought to bring everyone in his empire to that same understanding...
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#5
#5
I think he gave the Church of Rome legal standing, thus opening the door for them to make their ideas law. Traditional worship is all a copy of Rome ca. 200AD. Modern non-denom is half that and the other half I Corinthians.
 
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Theophane

Guest
#6
#6
Constantine took a fledgling Jesus movement and re-invented it for mainstream consumption. His reasons for doing so were probably less than admirable. There is a saying:

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

~Seneca the Younger
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#7
Oct 31, 2011
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#7
Ever since the last apostle who knew Jesus died, there were questions of how the God of the OT and the God of the new related to each other. With Constantine the decision was made that Christ was a new God, born new in Bethlehem, and a new religion was born. All dates and places of the religion before were removed officially. This decision had direct impact for centuries.

Constantine's main concern was in running his country, not in being a christian. He didn't think about learning God's will, but in having subjects who were united and orderly.
 
J

jb

Senior Member
#8
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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Rev 17v9,10 states: '...the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while.' The phrase 'one is' refers to the 6th head of the Beast, which was the Roman Empire and when Constantine 'supposedly' became a Christian, the Roman Empire was still the 6th head of the Beast, so, it is hard to see how this event (Constantine becoming a Christian and (some, but not all) of the events that followed) was part of God's plan, but rather the outworking of the Devil's plans and purposes...
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#9
#9
Amen. I don't judge the Bible by other books or commentaries. I judge them by the Bible
 
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GodsCreationX

Banned
#10
Mar 20, 2013
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#10
Constantine was driven only by his wanting to consolidate his power. He was a Sun God worshiper. This was the beginning of SUNday worship. One of the major points of contention during this great meeting of the minds was also the Trinity issue. Once there was a majority vote by these so called Fathers of the church, Constantine made it law. Under the fear of death people were made to start worshiping on SUNday instead of the Biblical Sabbath. Anyone caught worshiping on any other day was killed & all their earthly belongings were confiscated. The RCC has documented & bragged about changing God's Holy day in many of their writings. One doesn't have to dig very deep to find the TRUTH, but the majority will continue to believe the lie because it requires nothing. To follow the TRUTH of God's word requires sacrifice, & persecution will follow. Christians today are no different from the rest of the world following pagan doctrines & celebrating pagan holidays & putting God's name on them makes them justified, so they think. Trinity, SUNday worship, Christmas, Easter, wearing & displaying crosses, Teaching God will destroy most of his creation in a Hell hole of eternal torment, all these things are Satanic, Pagan doctrines that most christians accept & make excuses for almost daily. A true Christian can't even talk against these things in a Christian Chat room w/o getting banned within minutes. Gee I wonder why?
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#11
#11
Even pagan beliefs are not completely without merit. All thoughts of God started with Adam and Eve, and again with Noah's sons. You can trace the forgetting of the real God through ancient writings.

Which do you think is worse, believing there is no God at all, or believing in the wrong god until the right one gets your attention?
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#12
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#12
kenisyes said:
Even pagan beliefs are not completely without merit. All thoughts of God started with Adam and Eve, and again with Noah's sons. You can trace the forgetting of the real God through ancient writings.

Which do you think is worse, believing there is no God at all, or believing in the wrong god until the right one gets your attention?
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Ken I don't think this reflects the way God created our world to operate. God doesn't seem to reason like we do with "this is better". Paul told of this when he reasoned with philosphers in Athens. It mentions that he first reasoned in the synagogues, so some of the philosopher's ideas must have infiltered there, too. God's reaction to the golden calves illustrates this, too. They weren't made as new Gods, but to represent the one true God so they would have something solid to see. An invisible God was hard for them to understand.

When you search God's reaction to the golden calf, it does illustrate that God does use some "it is better" thinking, because God was more tolerant of the golden calf than He was of idols. But it seems to me that God isn't much for our thinking that it is really OK at all, or that we could be doing worse. God would be saying get it completely OUT of here.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#13
Jun 13, 2010
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#13
kenisyes said:
I think he gave the Church of Rome legal standing, thus opening the door for them to make their ideas law. Traditional worship is all a copy of Rome ca. 200AD. Modern non-denom is half that and the other half I Corinthians.
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he fulfilled Gods Plan...the Stone that struck down the confederation of conspirators against the Lord (pagan Rome and apostate jews) became a GREAT MOUNTAIN and filled the whole earth.

Christianity LEGAL....and flourishing.

it doesnt matter what fringes or sects did, the FAITH established in the scriptures carried on, growing and multiplying.

as if that wouldnt be from the same God who saw fit to establish the NT in Gentile Greek.

jew first...then gentile.

if ppl want to go back to 50AD and give it a go as a torah observant jewish- christian....GO FOR IT!

sure....right.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#14
#14
RedTent said:
Ken I don't think this reflects the way God created our world to operate.
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You're right of course. But that is in fact how we find the world. Atheists, pagans, pretend Christians, real Christians. Not what God wants. But if we want to minister to the people who are not yet perfect, are we better to attack their beliefs, or to start with the areas we agree on? What do we actually see God doing to the atheists, the pagans, the pretend Christians? Attacking, or trying to add to what they already have?
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#15
#15
zone said:
torah observant jewish
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Gee, all this time I thought the Corinthian church was largely Greek converts from paganism, and did not have to observe the Torah.

And people are moving away from orchestrated services and back toward home churches, modeled on I Cor.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#16
Jun 13, 2010
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#16
kenisyes said:
Gee, all this time I thought the Corinthian church was largely Greek converts from paganism, and did not have to observe the Torah.

And people are moving away from orchestrated services and back toward home churches, modeled on I Cor.
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lol ken.

i said:

if ppl want to go back to 50AD and give it a go as a torah observant jewish- christian....GO FOR IT!

sure....right.

what i meant was....everybody's all romantically imagining what the early church got so right and we got so wrong.
they want to return to the utopia they had.

like being fed to lions and tarred and torched and stuff.

and i meant...most gentiles seem to want to be jewish.

they were persecuted by gentiles and by jews...they got the worst of it.

who said christians aren't to observe and keep God's Laws and Commandments.

we are. we are to keep and guard His Word, the whole counsel.

and i know you're familiar with the Book of Concord, and soconcerning just The Law, and the Lutheran position on the Law:

"the civil use (as curb; that is, external righteousness that makes possible the social order) and the theological use (as mirror; that is, to help us to see our sins so that we repent and turn to the Gospel)... (as guide; that is, to help Christians know the kind of life that pleases God)"
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#17
#17
zone said:
what i meant was....everybody's all romantically imagining what the early church got so right and we got so wrong.
they want to return to the utopia they had.
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There's no Utopia until the new heavens and new earth. But we are all free to try anything the Word of God says, and to keep whatever we feel works best. The Word of God says we are not free to go back under the Law. Like you say, we can keep order in the church as the Holy Spirit leads, use the OT as a mirror to what we have been delivered from, and see in there a guide to how God thinks.
 
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Widdekind

Guest
#18
#18
Constantine legalized Christianity, ending the period of persecutions under pagan emperors (Nero, Domitian, Decius, Diocletian), known as the "Tribulation".

Constantine convened the Council of Victory (Nicaea), and created a Christian capital at Constantinople.

Theodosius mandated Christianity, representing the victory of Christianity over the pagan Roman empire (Rev 19), and beginning the "Millennium" (Rev 20), of the Byzantine Empire, of Christian Constantinople.
 
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