Does forever always mean forever? I think not.

[Bookends]

Most Christians seem to think that when God gives a promise with the word or phrase of it being "forever", that it means "forever" unconditionally. If fact many passages do say some things are forever, however, it many other areas we read that these same promises come with "conditions". God does not always mention these "conditions" in every passage where the promises are given with the word or phrase "forever" in them (without the conditions), but the conditions are mentioned else where. It's like looking at a car from one angle, not all angles.

Numbers 18:8
8 And the Lord spoke to Aaron: “Here, I Myself have also given you charge of My heave offerings, all the holy gifts of the children of Israel; I have given them as a portion to you and your sons, as an ordinance forever.

Exodus 27:21
21 In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel. .....


1 Samuel 2:30
30 Therefore the Lord God of Israel says: ‘I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.’ But now the Lord says: ‘Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.

____________________________________________________________________--

Deuteronomy 18:1-...
“The priests, the Levites—all the tribe of Levi—shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and His portion. 2 Therefore they shall have no inheritance among their brethren; the Lord is their inheritance, as He said to them.
3 “And this shall be the priest’s due from the people, from those who offer a sacrifice, whether it is bull or sheep: they shall give to the priest the shoulder, the cheeks, and the stomach. 4 The firstfruits of your grain and your new wine and your oil, and the first of the fleece of your sheep, you shall give him. 5 For the Lord your God has chosen him out of all your tribes to stand to minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons forever.

What tribe did Jesus, our High priest come from? (Hebrews 7:14)

I could come up with many more examples!!!

 

[p_rehbein]

(excerpt)

The first and technical reason for Jesus' descent from Judah is the important fact that Jesus is THE "First-born" unique and only Son of the Father (Rom.8:29; Col.1:15; 1:18; Heb.1:6; Rev.1:5; cf. Jn.1:14; 1:18; 3:16 3:18; 1Jn.4:9), and Judah is the tribe of the first-born - by assignment. For although Reuben was technically Jacob's first-born son, he forfeited the double-portion rights of inheritance that would otherwise have accrued thereto through misconduct - and he lost them to Judah (cf. Gen.49:3-4; 1Chron.5:1). It is for this that reason the "ruler's scepter" belongs to Judah (Gen.49:10; cf. Num.24:17), who ever after receives the privileges of the first-born. While we are not specifically told why it is that Simeon and Levi, Judah's older brothers, were disqualified from taking Reuben's place, it no doubt has to do with the incident in Genesis chapter 34 (compare especially Gen.34:30 with Gen.49:5-7).

(found here)

[h=3]Why did our Lord Jesus arise from the tribe of Judah ?[/h]

 

[Bookends]

(excerpt)

The first and technical reason for Jesus' descent from Judah is the important fact that Jesus is THE "First-born" unique and only Son of the Father (Rom.8:29; Col.1:15; 1:18; Heb.1:6; Rev.1:5; cf. Jn.1:14; 1:18; 3:16 3:18; 1Jn.4:9), and Judah is the tribe of the first-born - by assignment. For although Reuben was technically Jacob's first-born son, he forfeited the double-portion rights of inheritance that would otherwise have accrued thereto through misconduct - and he lost them to Judah (cf. Gen.49:3-4; 1Chron.5:1). It is for this that reason the "ruler's scepter" belongs to Judah (Gen.49:10; cf. Num.24:17), who ever after receives the privileges of the first-born. While we are not specifically told why it is that Simeon and Levi, Judah's older brothers, were disqualified from taking Reuben's place, it no doubt has to do with the incident in Genesis chapter 34 (compare especially Gen.34:30 with Gen.49:5-7).

(found here)

Why did our Lord Jesus arise from the tribe of Judah ?

Nothing to do with my main point, but thanks elaborating on why Jesus came from Judea rather and Levi, however, I also believe something deeper spiritually is the reason.

 

[Bookends]

Joshua 4:7
7 Then you shall answer them that the waters of the Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the Lord; when it crossed over the Jordan, the waters of the Jordan were cut off. And these stones shall be for a memorial to the children of Israel forever.”

Do these memorial exist today? Can we visit this memorial and know for sure that it is the one the Israelites made? Any have a real life picture of this Memorial?

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Joshua 4:7
7 Then you shall answer them that the waters of the Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the Lord; when it crossed over the Jordan, the waters of the Jordan were cut off. And these stones shall be for a memorial to the children of Israel forever.”

Do these memorial exist today? Can we visit this memorial and know for sure that it is the one the Israelites made? Any have a real life picture of this Memorial?

Isaiah 64:3-5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3*When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for,
thou camest down,
the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
4*For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear,
neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee,
what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
5*Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness,
those that remember thee in thy ways:
behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned:
in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 2:8-10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8*which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9*But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10*But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

I do believe that in real life (where both time does and does not exist/in my opinion time is more like a filing system in the eternal state of real life) we can experience all things forever promised as a witness.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Regarding the OP,
it may do all of us well to always search deeper when looking at verses that have the word forever written therein.

Dependent on the original written language prior to translation,... the word forever could very well mean until the end of applicability to witch it pertains. You have made some fine observations here and may those observations help to edify us and our brothers and sisters to have a better understanding of what we are reading and to bring about certain clarity.

 

[valiant]

There is no Hebrew word which means 'for ever'. The word 'olam means 'into the hidden future' (from the root 'hidden'.) The length of a man's life could be 'olam looking from when he was a young man. Thus it is not speaking of everlastingness, just of 'a long time ahead'.

 

[just-me]

There is no Hebrew word which means 'for ever'. The word 'olam means 'into the hidden future' (from the root 'hidden'.) The length of a man's life could be 'olam looking from when he was a young man. Thus it is not speaking of everlastingness, just of 'a long time ahead'.

The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)

What we know that is labeled as "forever" is as far into the future as the human mind can comprehend. Therefore, as far as we can see spiritually that is "forever," I think that's the way God desires our understanding to be. Nevertheless "forever" also incorporates a reality in Christ further than we can see.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Forever certainly exists...otherwise Jesus would be lying when He said....

John 11:25-27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

25*Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26*and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27*She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The opposite of never...ever/forever.

 

[MarcR]

There is no Hebrew word which means 'for ever'. The word 'olam means 'into the hidden future' (from the root 'hidden'.) The length of a man's life could be 'olam looking from when he was a young man. Thus it is not speaking of everlastingness, just of 'a long time ahead'.

עָלַם Awlam (OT5956) indeed means hidden or concealed.
עוֺלָ֑ם Olawm (OT5769), which is derived from עָלַם Awlam (OT5956); means forever, or always continuing.

In considering a word's meaning, it is necessary to look beyond its derivation and consider its actual usage. Many words have an extensive range of acceptable usage and usage in a particular situation becomes arguable. עוֺלָ֑ם however, is consistently used to denote 'in perpetuity'.

קֶ֔דֶם (OT 6924) means eternal.

 

[valiant]

עָלַם Awlam (OT5956) indeed means hidden or concealed.
עוֺלָ֑ם Olawm (OT5769), which is derived from עָלַם Awlam (OT5956); means forever, or always continuing.

In considering a word's meaning, it is necessary to look beyond its derivation and consider its actual usage. Many words have an extensive range of acceptable usage and usage in a particular situation becomes arguable. עוֺלָ֑ם however, is consistently used to denote 'in perpetuity'.

קֶ֔דֶם (OT 6924) means eternal.

This is simply not so. There are many places where olam cannot mean in perpetuity especially in view of the fact that the world is to be destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3)..

 

[valiant]

Forever certainly exists...otherwise Jesus would be lying when He said....

John 11:25-27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

25*Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26*and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27*She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

but this says nothing about the meaning of 'olam. We all agree that God is for ever.

 

[valiant]

The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)

What we know that is labeled as "forever" is as far into the future as the human mind can comprehend. Therefore, as far as we can see spiritually that is "forever," I think that's the way God desires our understanding to be. Nevertheless "forever" also incorporates a reality in Christ further than we can see.

Thus each use has to be seen in its context and we should beware of making it mean what it does not. The earth will not abide for ever. It will be destroyed by fire, and there will be a totally new different kind of earth.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Many times in scripture..."both are true".
It is surely possible for "the world" to be destroyed, and yet "the world" can also exist after being destroyed, but in a different realm.

 

[valiant]

Many times in scripture..."both are true".
It is surely possible for "the world" to be destroyed, and yet "the world" can also exist after being destroyed, but in a different realm.

LOL good try. But I don't think that's what the writer meant

I think you will find that most modern leading Hebrew scholars would agree that 'olam does not literally mean for ever.