Everyone is spiritually dead at conception

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Everyone is spiritually dead at conception before Baptism.


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Acts 10:47
Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?

Water baptism is an outward expression of one's inner spiritual transformation. Necessary for further spiritual growth.

Water Baptism is the gateway to discipleship, not the ticket to heaven. Their ticket to heaven was punched in Acts 10:44. When they were BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) eternal life giving Holy Spirit! > No Water & no HANDS (Col 2:11 also see 1 Cor 12:13) are needed.

Water Baptism is necessary for spiritual growth, not spiritual birth. Water Baptism is the first step of discipleship, not the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth.
 
Water baptism is an outward expression of one's inner spiritual transformation. Necessary for further spiritual growth.

Water Baptism is the gateway to discipleship, not the ticket to heaven. Their ticket to heaven was punched in Acts 10:44. When they were BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) eternal life giving Holy Spirit! > No Water & no HANDS (Col 2:11 also see 1 Cor 12:13) are needed.

Water Baptism is necessary for spiritual growth, not spiritual birth. Water Baptism is the first step of discipleship, not the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth.

I would agree that WB is good for spiritual growth, although to say it is necessary sounds like it is salvific, which is not what the NT teaches. Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either (per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1).

WB replaced physical circumcision in the NT church per Col. 2:11-12, which says, “In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” Surely Paul
did not mean to suggest that baptism done by the hands of men is salvific!
 
I was raised as a Baptist to believe I was NOT a Christian until I professed my faith publicly, which I did once I built up enough
courage to walk the aisle at the age of 8-9, but much later as an adult I realized that because my parents raised me according to
God's plan A and I had never rebelled against God's Word, that I have been saved all of my life as Paul indicated regarding Timothy
(2Tim. 3:15).

I also realize that finding a compatible church is more problematic than finding a soulmate: The closest one is conservative
Methodist and the teaching too shallow for my satisfaction, preferring to emphasize fellowship groups more than Bible study
groups (not sure they know what systematic Bible study is, actually), and the other church I belong to has better teaching but
is far away and does not apply GW to apologetics and politics, which is a big interest of mine. So, CC is my church for now,
because at least it is a place where I can share my lifelong learning with younger truthseekers as I learn from interactions
with beliefs that are not encountered in the circles I travel, such as "tulipism" and "Actsism".

I know for sure is that we must accept Christ as a decision of our will in order to be born again. I didn't make this up. It's God's word. We are born "dead in trespass and sin". This is true of all who are the descendants of Adam.

The rich man came to Jesus wanting to know what he must do to inherit eternal life. He called Jesus "good". Jesus told him that only God is good. The rich man told Jesus that he had kept all the commandments from his youth. Not good enough for God.

There is always "one thing that we lack". Often, it's more than one thing. Who these days even knows God's commandments, let alone keeps them? I do know this much: God saves sinners. (1 Timothy 1:15, Mark 2:17 for example).
 
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Water baptism is an outward expression of one's inner spiritual transformation. Necessary for further spiritual growth.

Water Baptism is the gateway to discipleship, not the ticket to heaven. Their ticket to heaven was punched in Acts 10:44. When they were BAPTIZED via Christ's salvation SEALNG (Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14) eternal life giving Holy Spirit! > No Water & no HANDS (Col 2:11 also see 1 Cor 12:13) are needed.

Water Baptism is necessary for spiritual growth, not spiritual birth. Water Baptism is the first step of discipleship, not the first breath of one's new spiritual life/birth.
Baptism represents burial (Colossians 2:12). Christians need to know that they are crucified with Christ. We do not physically get crucified of course. God includes us in the death of Christ when we accept Him. Baptism is our acknowledgement of God's righteous judgement that we are worthy only of death. We can live in the knowledge that the old "I" is dead and buried. Then we can live in the power of the resurrection life that Jesus gives us. It's life that comes out of death.
 
I would agree that WB is good for spiritual growth, although to say it is necessary sounds like it is salvific,

My reply to the OP made no such claim that water baptism is salvific. To the contrary, I pointed out salvation happened Acts 10:44 & attached my reply to his post that cited:

Acts 10:47. Acts 10:47 clearly says who """have""" received the Holy Spirit. They """had""" received the Holy Spirit BY FAITH. Before they were told by Peter to undergo water baptism.

I'll add the following for additional clarity:

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(MY NOTE: John the Baptist made clear that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(MY NOTE: For by one """SPIRIT""" are """ALL""" baptized into one body! Translators capitalized Spirit to identify when referring the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize with HIS salvation sealing indwelling Holy Spirit.)

Col 2:11 In whom also """ye are circumcised with the circumcision""" """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh """by the circumcision of Christ"""
(MY NOTE: The baptism of the ETERNALLY SEALING (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, Eph 4:4) FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn14:16) Holy Spirit is a """Spiritual/Circumcision/Covenant""" done """by Christ Alone""", WITHOUT HANDS & WITHOUT WATER.)

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(MY NOTE: Circumcision of the heart, in the spirit)

Deut 30:6 (A) the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart,
 
I believe all sound/correct doctrine of Jesus Christ. If you don't believe all sound/correct doctrine of Jesus Christ, I know Jesus as Lord and Savior better than you do and I am more saved than you.


The Bible says to check the spirits....

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

....and you failed the test. Satan also knows scripture, but he doesn't obey it. Neither do you. Your spirit isn't from Jesus because you weaponize His word and ways against His own people. If I can see that because of the Holy Spirit, so does God even more, who fully knows what is in your heart and mind - even if you quote His scripture.

So I don't know why you continue in this sin. So many times banned and you keep coming back and commit it all over again. Do you know why you get banned? It's not just because you're breaking forum rules, but also to keep you from piling up even more judgement against yourself when you have to stand before God. You have no idea how much you're going to regret this when your judgement comes and won't have anyone else to blame for it.


🥳
 
I know for sure is that we must accept Christ as a decision of our will in order to be born again. I didn't make this up. It's God's word. We are born "dead in trespass and sin". This is true of all who are the descendants of Adam.

The rich man came to Jesus wanting to know what he must do to inherit eternal life. He called Jesus "good". Jesus told him that only God is good. The rich man told Jesus that he had kept all the commandments from his youth. Not good enough for God.

There is always "one thing that we lack". Often, it's more than one thing. Who these days even knows God's commandments, let alone keeps them? I do know this much: God saves sinners. (1 Timothy 1:15, Mark 2:17 for example).

Not sure if you understand that I always willed to love Jesus, because even though born in sin I also was born in saving faith
thanks to my Christian parents, just as adult saints are saved sinners or always lacking. When I attained the age/stage of
accountability or being able to understand that I was a sinner who needed to repent and be saved by faith in Jesus as Lord, I did.
 
Not sure if you understand that I always willed to love Jesus, because even though born in sin I also was born in saving faith
thanks to my Christian parents, just as adult saints are saved sinners or always lacking. When I attained the age/stage of
accountability or being able to understand that I was a sinner who needed to repent and be saved by faith in Jesus as Lord, I did.
I do not believe that faith is hereditary.
 
I do not believe that faith is hereditary.

Faith is an act of will, which ability is inherited by humans. How a child's will/faith is oriented is strongly influenced by his/her parents, who represent God. Only the first human or one with a tabula rasa (blank slate)—like a newly sentient child—actually starts exploring reality from the beginning. A pre-sentient infant in the womb is completely agnostic or without knowledge of every ism (and thus without faith in any). A baby's concern is meeting survival needs, but when old enough to reflect, a person might wonder why they were “born”, how they should behave, and what they ought to accomplish with their life?

Since absolute skepticism or agnosticism is unattainable for thinkers or truthseekers, there are only two qualitatively different ways of answering these questions. One way is by assuming that there is no ultimate “whyness” or purpose beyond survival and avoiding pain, so it does not ultimately matter what one believes or does, because humanity merely evolved from eternal energy/matter, into which it “devolves” at death. You may desire for some reason to survive and to save the world, but if life becomes too painful you may wish you were never born and want to destroy the world, because there is no good reason you ought to be like Messiah rather than like Mania or to be loving rather than maniacal. You may believe and act like evil exists or not, because life is a farce or a continual “King of the Hill” (KOTH) struggle against human adversaries and various other types of adversity, having no ultimate or universal moral imperative (UMI).

The second type of answer is that life is NOT a farce—that existence has meaning, and how one believes and behaves does matter for some non-arbitrary reason. This answer seems more appealing to me and almost logically imperative, although some people appear to prefer the paths of nihilism and KOTH (cf. Matt. 13:14-15).

I call the first type of answer cosmaterialism, because it views reality as consisting only of the material cosmos or universe and as having only four dimensions (space plus time), which are perceived by the five physical senses, implying a perpetual history of KOTH. I call the second way of believing moralism, because—while accepting the reality of the physical/material—it also affirms a fifth dimension perceived by a sixth intuitive or spiritual sense that gives reality a logical basis for meaning and morality (which means for ending KOTH).

The choice between cosmaterialism and moralism logically is the first fundamental choice in life (cf. Gen. 3:5). It can be thought of as a watershed decision that divides all people into two essentially different philosophical categories or world-views like a continental divide, although the analogy breaks down at the points the various oceans connect. (Watershed divide: Moralism or Nihilism?)

A person who believes cosmaterialism, moral nihilism and that life’s struggles are meaningless frequently tends to seek escape even via suicide, whether by one act or by a downward spiral of self-destructive behavior. Again, until and unless this option were somehow proven beyond doubt, moralism or viewing life as meaningful seems to be the better belief.
 
Baptism of humans is supported in scripture. Babies are human.

A person has to have the knowledge of them doing wrong, repent of their sins, and confess Jesus as Savior, before they are water baptized.

Why would a baby be baptized if they do not have an understanding of these things.

It would be like giving the baby a high tech job but they have no knowledge of it.
 
Faith is an act of will, which ability is inherited by humans. How a child's will/faith is oriented is strongly influenced by his/her parents, who represent God. Only the first human or one with a tabula rasa (blank slate)—like a newly sentient child—actually starts exploring reality from the beginning. A pre-sentient infant in the womb is completely agnostic or without knowledge of every ism (and thus without faith in any). A baby's concern is meeting survival needs, but when old enough to reflect, a person might wonder why they were “born”, how they should behave, and what they ought to accomplish with their life?

Since absolute skepticism or agnosticism is unattainable for thinkers or truthseekers, there are only two qualitatively different ways of answering these questions. One way is by assuming that there is no ultimate “whyness” or purpose beyond survival and avoiding pain, so it does not ultimately matter what one believes or does, because humanity merely evolved from eternal energy/matter, into which it “devolves” at death. You may desire for some reason to survive and to save the world, but if life becomes too painful you may wish you were never born and want to destroy the world, because there is no good reason you ought to be like Messiah rather than like Mania or to be loving rather than maniacal. You may believe and act like evil exists or not, because life is a farce or a continual “King of the Hill” (KOTH) struggle against human adversaries and various other types of adversity, having no ultimate or universal moral imperative (UMI).

The second type of answer is that life is NOT a farce—that existence has meaning, and how one believes and behaves does matter for some non-arbitrary reason. This answer seems more appealing to me and almost logically imperative, although some people appear to prefer the paths of nihilism and KOTH (cf. Matt. 13:14-15).

I call the first type of answer cosmaterialism, because it views reality as consisting only of the material cosmos or universe and as having only four dimensions (space plus time), which are perceived by the five physical senses, implying a perpetual history of KOTH. I call the second way of believing moralism, because—while accepting the reality of the physical/material—it also affirms a fifth dimension perceived by a sixth intuitive or spiritual sense that gives reality a logical basis for meaning and morality (which means for ending KOTH).

The choice between cosmaterialism and moralism logically is the first fundamental choice in life (cf. Gen. 3:5). It can be thought of as a watershed decision that divides all people into two essentially different philosophical categories or world-views like a continental divide, although the analogy breaks down at the points the various oceans connect. (Watershed divide: Moralism or Nihilism?)

A person who believes cosmaterialism, moral nihilism and that life’s struggles are meaningless frequently tends to seek escape even via suicide, whether by one act or by a downward spiral of self-destructive behavior. Again, until and unless this option were somehow proven beyond doubt, moralism or viewing life as meaningful seems to be the better belief.
Faith comes by hearing and hearingby
A person has to have the knowledge of them doing wrong, repent of their sins, and confess Jesus as Savior, before they are water baptized.

Why would a baby be baptized if they do not have an understanding of these things.

It would be like giving the baby a high tech job but they have no knowledge of it.
Baby sprinklers have biblical justification for their position. I do not agree, but I understand why they believe it.
 
Faith comes by hearing and hearingby

Baby sprinklers have biblical justification for their position. I do not agree, but I understand why they believe it.

Faith in God comes by hearing the word of God, but not all who hear believe.
Some, beginning with Adam and Eve, choose to believe Satan's lie (Matt. 13:14-15).