faith-based healing & children

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just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
17
0
#1
i'm rather curious about what you guys think about the new bill being walked around the idaho statehouse targeting those whose children are dying because their parents are forgoing medical care for faith-based healing.

NWCN.com Washington - Oregon - Idaho

the proposed changes:

Idaho's current law states, "The practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to have violated the duty of care to such a child."
Gannon's draft bill would add an important provision to that bill:
"However, this exemption shall not apply whenever a child's medical condition may cause death or permanent disability."
Rep. Gannon says his bill would not require parents to seek medical help for minor issues or sicknesses, but only for those illnesses that could lead to death or permanent disability.
"The health of a child trumps ideology, and philosophy," Gannon said. "A child has a right to become an adult and receive treatment."


this law seems to be overdue for the number of states that continue to allow those whose faith prohibits medical care from being a requirement for a critically ill child. i'm quite angry that ANY child might die because the parent decides that an ear/bronchial infection (or anything relatively benign or easily cured by antibiotics or medical intervention) could be allowed to devolve into a life threatening infection causing death. it also seems like another case where the fragilest of humans pay the highest price for someone else's rights to exercise their faith in a way that pleases them.

additionally, the window of progression for illness with children is often perilously slim, so dehydration and death can occur far more quickly that anyone without a medical background or knowledge might predict. it also seems particularly sad to believe there are people who are in earnest praying over a sick child while it slowly succumbs to an easily curable illness via medical technology.

on the other hand, it also occurs to me that it lays the groundwork for potential overreaching, depending upon how vigorously the law will be interpreted and enforced.

idaho is considered the second most conservative state in the union. i'm very interested to find out whether this bill will be passed.

i'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic, both the bill's subject and potential ramifications that may occur from it's ratification.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
It sounds great, but it's a trap door through which all with any religious objection to anything will get pulled through.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#3
Also this advocates the long arms of the state as an intervention into people's lives where it's not necessary. I think you should seriously consider the systematic failures of our healthcare system even with minor things. Hospitals have too much authority to force things on you.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#4
I get Jimmys point, and agree with it to a point. But i don't think its putting the government into places where it doesn't belong to make laws concerning a parent standing idly by while their child dies when it could be prevented.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#5
It's a tough issue, that's for sure.....whether a person supports or opposes government intervention in these cases though, it's 100% illegal (unconstitutional) for the government to intervene in situations of this nature. Constitutionally, it doesn't matter if the state passes a bill regarding intervention or not.....they don't have the lawful authority to do so. It could even be argued that merely attempting to pass such a bill would make the legislators involved guilty of treason.

Not saying I agree with that line of reasoning per se, but from a constitutional viewpoint....that's a solid case. The constitution is disregarded almost completely in this day and age though so things like this being passed doesn't surprise me.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#6
It's a tough issue, that's for sure.....whether a person supports or opposes government intervention in these cases though, it's 100% illegal (unconstitutional) for the government to intervene in situations of this nature. Constitutionally, it doesn't matter if the state passes a bill regarding intervention or not.....they don't have the lawful authority to do so. It could even be argued that merely attempting to pass such a bill would make the legislators involved guilty of treason.

Not saying I agree with that line of reasoning per se, but from a constitutional viewpoint....that's a solid case. The constitution is disregarded almost completely in this day and age though so things like this being passed doesn't surprise me.
The United States abandoned the constitution long ago. We entered the age of arbitrary law awhile back, it's just getting more blatant and bold.
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
17
0
#7
Also this advocates the long arms of the state as an intervention into people's lives where it's not necessary. I think you should seriously consider the systematic failures of our healthcare system even with minor things. Hospitals have too much authority to force things on you.
well, that's the crux of this bill. at first it seemed like a no-brainer to me, but when i read the fine print, i starting thinking of all the ways in which the this can be applied. i can think of about a dozen ways this could go sideways, however, i think at the end of the day, it bothers me that we have to write a law for people to prevent their children from dying.

idaho, behind so conversative may not have the problems that other states might have, but it's a matter of time that "conservative" is a relative term.
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
17
0
#8
thanks for your feedback.

it comes down to what is most important? personal freedom or the life of children.

i think if this didn't have such relevant and timely issues associated with it, i'd be less supportive of its origin. when i read about the particular faith group that is inspiring this bill, they have a graveyard of 12 children (young children) who've expired over the last several years. it's the most pathetic thing i've possibly seen.

but i can't say that bills like these don't make me nervous. they do.
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
17
0
#9
It's a tough issue, that's for sure.....whether a person supports or opposes government intervention in these cases though, it's 100% illegal (unconstitutional) for the government to intervene in situations of this nature. Constitutionally, it doesn't matter if the state passes a bill regarding intervention or not.....they don't have the lawful authority to do so. It could even be argued that merely attempting to pass such a bill would make the legislators involved guilty of treason.

Not saying I agree with that line of reasoning per se, but from a constitutional viewpoint....that's a solid case. The constitution is disregarded almost completely in this day and age though so things like this being passed doesn't surprise me.
well, sadly we're way past states passing laws that conflict with federal/constitutional issues.

as i mentioned before, the inspiration of this law is due to the "faith group" that has over the last few years put at least a dozen children in the ground because they are free to forgo any medical care for their children, regardless of how ill they may be. and currently, idaho provides a means of avoiding any prosecution on the basis of "faith".

we as christians hate abortion. this seems like another issue where the frailest of humans have to pay the price for their parents "freedoms".

as i said before, i definitely see how this law can be a threat, as well. what price do we protect children?
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#10
Parents refusing the children medical assistance based on "we have enough faith God will heal so they don't need human assistance" should be charged with neglect, abuse and cruelty, if the child dies they should be put on trial for murder.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#11
well, sadly we're way past states passing laws that conflict with federal/constitutional issues.

as i mentioned before, the inspiration of this law is due to the "faith group" that has over the last few years put at least a dozen children in the ground because they are free to forgo any medical care for their children, regardless of how ill they may be. and currently, idaho provides a means of avoiding any prosecution on the basis of "faith".

we as christians hate abortion. this seems like another issue where the frailest of humans have to pay the price for their parents "freedoms".

as i said before, i definitely see how this law can be a threat, as well. what price do we protect children?
It's an interesting philosophical issue. Should it be illegal for people to trust the Lord with the fate of their children instead of science, regardless of the outcome? That's the philosophical question. I don't agree with the law, simply because it's illegal in the first place. If you have laws that are unlawful, you don't really have law at all.....only the illusion of it.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#12
Seems like decision making is often about choosing which bad option you want.

1. Religious freedom, with no threat of government forcing their will, which results in kids dying due to parent's religion.

2. Government intervention, which leads to saved lives, but which may also lead to over reach of government, and intrusion into freedoms.

Which black hole do you want to jump into?





Oooh they're both so pretty!
I can't decide.

Ok I'm off...have a good day!
 

just_monicat

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2014
1,284
17
0
#13
Seems like decision making is often about choosing which bad option you want.

1. Religious freedom, with no threat of government forcing their will, which results in kids dying due to parent's religion.

2. Government intervention, which leads to saved lives, but which may also lead to over reach of government, and intrusion into freedoms.

Which black hole do you want to jump into?





Oooh they're both so pretty!
I can't decide.

Ok I'm off...have a good day!
well said. thank you.