Faith without works and proof is false faith.

[GreatestIam]

Faith without works and proof is false faith.

Scriptures, on the issue of works, contradict each other.
Some scriptures and Christian sects push the notion that faith alone in God is all that is required to earn heaven.

Some scriptures indicate that without works, living the theology and applying it to reality, that whatever faith we claim to have is useless and that those souls are lost.
The notion of being part of a community where individuals looked out for each other and shared whatever it had was the key and the only reason Christianity became the religion that it is today. I mean this in the sense or size only. In reality, Christianity no longer bases it’s theology and being saved on works.

Perhaps this is why the Church is so fragmented today and losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the population.

People usually do what they see as profitable in one way or another for themselves. Today, looking at Christianity, from inside or outside, the population does not see a profit in remaining in or joining Christianity due to this notion that faith is all that is required.

Without works, will Christianity die?
Do you have to live your faith or is faith without works and good deeds good enough?

What was it that James told Peter.
Demons have faith in God and it is likely stronger than man’s faith because they know for certain of God’s reality yet it does them no good. Faith, belief that is not based on proof, is thus useless.

Regards
DL

 

[needmesomejesus]

Faith with works is saying you have to have works for your salvation which isn't true. Ephesians 2:8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
The demons have faith in God and Christ he exists, but they haven't put faith in Christ as their savior and admitted they need Him to forgive their sins. That's the difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith without works and proof is false faith.

Scriptures, on the issue of works, contradict each other.
Some scriptures and Christian sects push the notion that faith alone in God is all that is required to earn heaven.

Some scriptures indicate that without works, living the theology and applying it to reality, that whatever faith we claim to have is useless and that those souls are lost.
The notion of being part of a community where individuals looked out for each other and shared whatever it had was the key and the only reason Christianity became the religion that it is today. I mean this in the sense or size only. In reality, Christianity no longer bases it’s theology and being saved on works.

Perhaps this is why the Church is so fragmented today and losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the population.

People usually do what they see as profitable in one way or another for themselves. Today, looking at Christianity, from inside or outside, the population does not see a profit in remaining in or joining Christianity due to this notion that faith is all that is required.

Without works, will Christianity die?
Do you have to live your faith or is faith without works and good deeds good enough?

What was it that James told Peter.
Demons have faith in God and it is likely stronger than man’s faith because they know for certain of God’s reality yet it does them no good. Faith, belief that is not based on proof, is thus useless.

Regards
DL

To be honest. after reading this. I have no clue what he is trying to say. it is like there are suttle hints he could go either way.

 

[CB]

Real faith/trust/belief will inspire someone to have real action....For instance, if someone told you that they put an explosive underneath your chair and it was set to go off in 1 min, you have the option to believe that person or not. If you truly believe/trust put faith in what they're telling you then your actions/works will demonstrate it.... In our case we have the choice or option to believe the gospel with all its implications or not... Someone can say they believe but still sit there and eventually the explosion will happen and thats that... Again, faith in Christ will lead to His life in you, the glorious mystery!

 

[rainacorn]

I tend not to take advice about faith from people who don't know God.

 

[Tobby17]

Faith without works and proof is false faith.

Scriptures, on the issue of works, contradict each other.
Some scriptures and Christian sects push the notion that faith alone in God is all that is required to earn heaven.

Some scriptures indicate that without works, living the theology and applying it to reality, that whatever faith we claim to have is useless and that those souls are lost.
The notion of being part of a community where individuals looked out for each other and shared whatever it had was the key and the only reason Christianity became the religion that it is today. I mean this in the sense or size only. In reality, Christianity no longer bases it’s theology and being saved on works.

Perhaps this is why the Church is so fragmented today and losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the population.

People usually do what they see as profitable in one way or another for themselves. Today, looking at Christianity, from inside or outside, the population does not see a profit in remaining in or joining Christianity due to this notion that faith is all that is required.

Without works, will Christianity die?
Do you have to live your faith or is faith without works and good deeds good enough?

What was it that James told Peter.
Demons have faith in God and it is likely stronger than man’s faith because they know for certain of God’s reality yet it does them no good. Faith, belief that is not based on proof, is thus useless.

Regards
DL

Do you even understand what Faith is?. Faith is supposed to be practice when there is no proof.

Heb 11:1- Now faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR, and evidence of things NOT SEEN!!!

However, Faith without work is dead, but faith with proof, is false faith ( That is if you need the proof to have faith)!

 

[dmdave17]

Real faith/trust/belief will inspire someone to have real action....faith in Christ will lead to His life in you, the glorious mystery!

I believe that this was the main theme of James' letter. Salvation inspires us to want to please God; therefore, we do "works" because that is what we believe will please Him. However, I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that works alone do not lead to salvation. As Paul points out in numerous letters, if that were the case, there would have been no reason for Christ's sacrifice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that this was the main theme of James' letter. Salvation inspires us to want to please God; therefore, we do "works" because that is what we believe will please Him. However, I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that works alone do not lead to salvation. As Paul points out in numerous letters, if that were the case, there would have been no reason for Christ's sacrifice.

This is why legalism, or the belief one can lose salvation, is so dangerous. It puts Christ to shame, saying his death was not sufficient.

 

[SantoSubito]

I believe that this was the main theme of James' letter. Salvation inspires us to want to please God; therefore, we do "works" because that is what we believe will please Him. However, I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that works alone do not lead to salvation. As Paul points out in numerous letters, if that were the case, there would have been no reason for Christ's sacrifice.

Indeed, one needs both faith and works to be saved.

This is why legalism, or the belief one can lose salvation, is so dangerous. It puts Christ to shame, saying his death was not sufficient.

Well the OSAS crowd has their own way of saying you can lose your salvation, you can suddenly wake up and find out that you never "really had faith and were never really saved".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Indeed, one needs both faith and works to be saved.

Then Paul is a liar. And we might as well throw away scripture because it is useless. (Paul did not just refere to the law when he said works. Many times he said any works. "works of righteousness we have done" this is not refering to the works of the law. he also mentions abraham, who did not have the law. But showed how he was not saved by works, lest he had something to boast (take credit) for.

Well the OSAS crowd has their own way of saying you can lose your salvation, you can suddenly wake up and find out that you never "really had faith and were never really saved".

Well no. Those who never had faith would not wake up one day and find out they were never saved. They will walk away, no longer believing in what they claimed to believe in the first place. Proving they never had faith to begin with.

Those trying to work their way in. Well they are like the pharisees. They think they are saved. But if they do not repent, and trust God instead of their deeds, they will stand in front of God one day, and find out God never knew them. For they trusted their works, and not the one thing which could save them. The death of Christ. Jesus told Adam and eve if they sinned, they would die (the penalty of sin) Paul says the penalty of sin is death. if death is the penalty of sin, Then only death and free us from that penalty. You will never find in scripture where God says the penalty of sin is death, having to take the eucharist, having to be baptized, having to go to church, having to live a sinnless life from this point on, or giving penance for that sin, etc etc etc.

You will only find, the penalty of sin is death. Only death can make amends for sin. The false premise that Christ's death is not sufficient, and he needs our help by doing these works above and beyond his death is from the master of lies himself. Satan! he has been spreading this lie since day one, and it is prevalent in the world today still. man always goes back to his pride. Pride keeps us from truth. We have to do something to make up for our wrongs.

Well news flash. You can never sin again, take the Eucharist every week for the next 30 years. be baptized, go to church every time the doors are open, Give to the poor. Tithe faithfully, study the word every day, pray faithfully without ceasing etc etc etc. and all these "works" combined will not be enough to make up for the little white lie you told your mother when you was a child to get out being punished for something you did wrong. and allow God to forgive you of that sin. let alone the many other sins you have committed. from that day until today. It is nothing but pride to think God looks at the works we do, and takes that into consideration on whether he will forgive any sin we have ever committed.

Those who come to God in humility realize this. And they praise God everyday for the love he has shown by sending his son to do what we could never do. This is what OSAS is.

It is not the licentious gospel being taught by the "free grace crowd" which is just as dangerous and damning as the legalistic gospel being taught which says faith plus works are required for the forgiveness of sin. As both gospels lead people to hell!

 

[rainacorn]

I find this a bit sad. Some atheist posts a bunch of nonsense and Christians jump at the chance to argue with each other about it.

Discernment, guys. Come on.

 

[phil36]

Faith+ works don't save...

mind you most christians think that they save themselves because being dead they can with their own righteousnes save themselves just by believing..oh of course this is with a little help with the Holy Spirit, but on the whole..they decide and do the work.

Yet scripture is clear, rebirth is monergistic, it is the Holy spirit who gives new life so that the believer then can believe and work out their Faith (synergistic).