First Word of Jesus was repent

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infinitekhanol

Active member
#341
Jul 11, 2020
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#341
throughfaith said:
Would you agree that we are meant to ' rightly divide " the scriptures .
I use this verse to make a more obvious point.
We can trust that God has made his word clear to understand.
This command for example is not for us today . Its not written TO us . Its an account of a command given to Noah specifically.
Genesis 6:14
“Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.”

Now its FOR us to understand,but its not for us to follow by building an Ark in our back yard . Yes there is so much to gain from understanding the flood account .
I see people doing this with Jesus words . Instead of understanding who Jesus is speaking too , when he is speaking and why people just go for the ' spiritual ' " I feel God is speaking to me in this verse ' ect .
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Some see the letter of the word and draw their conclusions based on the letter. Others see the letter of the word and look beyond the letter to see the principle behind the word or the spirit in the word. They cannot arrive at the same conclusion. I therefore say to each according to his believe.

The letter does not always give the actual meaning of what we are required to understand. For example, check the parable of the sower and the meaning our Lord Jesus ascribed to it or his other parables. In most cases, there are hidden treasures of truths in the letters. These treasures are hidden in this earthen vessels so that the excellence of the power of knowledge may be of God and not of us.

It doesn't matter who the audience are or were. That I was not part of the crowd that gathered to hear Jesus speak on the parable of the sower does not mean that the parable does not apply to me and my generation.

In a nutshell what is important and relevant today is -- in your own words, that so much we gain in understanding the flood account. What then do we understand is the question?

It is not a question of building a physical Ark in our backyard that is important, but the spiritual lessons/truths lined up in that story which is important, which are still relevant today.
 
I

infinitekhanol

Active member
#343
Jul 11, 2020
539
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#343
throughfaith said:
He claimed 'private ' interpretations . That others too could have confirmation that what he taught was true if they prayed about it and they would recieve a personal testimony ( burning in the bosom) that it was true.
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That was as he understood.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#344
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#344
infinitekhanol said:
Some see the letter of the word and draw their conclusions based on the letter. Others see the letter of the word and look beyond the letter to see the principle behind the word or the spirit in the word. They cannot arrive at the same conclusion. I therefore say to each according to his believe.

The letter does not always give the actual meaning of what we are required to understand. For example, check the parable of the sower and the meaning our Lord Jesus ascribed to it or his other parables. In most cases, there are hidden treasures of truths in the letters. These treasures are hidden in this earthen vessels so that the excellence of the power of knowledge may be of God and not of us.

It doesn't matter who the audience are or were. That I was not part of the crowd that gathered to hear Jesus speak on the parable of the sower does not mean that the parable does not apply to me and my generation.

In a nutshell what is important and relevant today is -- in your own words, that so much we gain in understanding the flood account. What then do we understand is the question?

It is not a question of building a physical Ark in our backyard that is important, but the spiritual lessons/truths lined up in that story which is important, which are still relevant today.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is what i meant by ' floaty ' and subjective. I would say there is inconsistencies inspite of this ' spiritual ' approach. Basically its inconsistent because you do believe some things of a factual and historical nature. The virgin bith , Jesus being God , the death burial and resurrection ( hopefully ) . That these places, names ect actually existed . When you go to a museum and read the historical information say on Alexander the Great, for example, you don't think " oh yeah what this means when it says he conquered ,this REALLY means I can conquer my battles " ect .. no you understand that these are facts about that person.
Each letter/ book mostly directly says why they are writing and who its to .
 
I

infinitekhanol

Active member
#346
Jul 11, 2020
539
97
28
#346
throughfaith said:
Yeah this is what i meant by ' floaty ' and subjective. I would say there is inconsistencies inspite of this ' spiritual ' approach. Basically its inconsistent because you do believe some things of a factual and historical nature. The virgin bith , Jesus being God , the death burial and resurrection ( hopefully ) . That these places, names ect actually existed . When you go to a museum and read the historical information say on Alexander the Great, for example, you don't think " oh yeah what this means when it says he conquered ,this REALLY means I can conquer my battles " ect .. no you understand that these are facts about that person.
Each letter/ book mostly directly says why they are writing and who its to .
Click to expand...
Well, one major difference between the scripture and other history books is that we take the letters of the History books on their face value for that is exactly what they are. The words of God contained in the scripture as Jesus tells us are spirit and they are life. Therefore, the spirit in the word ministers to us as we read and study the scripture and the understanding we receive goes beyond the letter in most cases.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#347
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#347
2
infinitekhanol said:
Some see the letter of the word and draw their conclusions based on the letter. Others see the letter of the word and look beyond the letter to see the principle behind the word or the spirit in the word. They cannot arrive at the same conclusion. I therefore say to each according to his believe.

The letter does not always give the actual meaning of what we are required to understand. For example, check the parable of the sower and the meaning our Lord Jesus ascribed to it or his other parables. In most cases, there are hidden treasures of truths in the letters. These treasures are hidden in this earthen vessels so that the excellence of the power of knowledge may be of God and not of us.

It doesn't matter who the audience are or were. That I was not part of the crowd that gathered to hear Jesus speak on the parable of the sower does not mean that the parable does not apply to me and my generation.

In a nutshell what is important and relevant today is -- in your own words, that so much we gain in understanding the flood account. What then do we understand is the question?

It is not a question of building a physical Ark in our backyard that is important, but the spiritual lessons/truths lined up in that story which is important, which are still relevant today.
Click to expand...
what if you read " 5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Who do the Jews have to go to ? Is it lawfull for them to go to gentiles then ? The obvious answer is no they could not go to the gentiles . What if that's all you read? why do you preach to gentiles today?

And here :

Matthew 15:24
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Well what if you, like those who heard Jesus only heard these commands and messages? Would you obey Jesus or disobey . Do you think they heard this and thought " yeah well for me , I understand Jesus to really be saying we can go preach to gentiles, let's head to where the 'dogs 'hang out " . Yes later 10 years after Acts 2 we see a transition to the gentiles . But we don't go back and follow the commands Jesus gave back then .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#348
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#348
infinitekhanol said:
Well, one major difference between the scripture and other history books is that we take the letters of the History books on their face value for that is exactly what they are. The words of God contained in the scripture as Jesus tells us are spirit and they are life. Therefore, the spirit in the word ministers to us as we read and study the scripture and the understanding we receive goes beyond the letter in most cases.
Click to expand...
Yes I have been to those types of bible studies where someone quotes a random passage and goes round the circle asking how does this verse make you feel ? And what does it mean to you ? ..instead actually respecting God enough to read what his word ACTUALLY SAYS .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#350
Aug 4, 2020
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#350
infinitekhanol said:
How do I know? I may have to look at what he believes in to see if I agree with him or not based on my own understanding of the scripture.
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He taught that Jesus and lucifer were brothers, denied the trinity , works salvation ,saying ' were saved by grace AFTER all WE can do ' . This is only a few of his heretical beliefs.
 
I

infinitekhanol

Active member
#351
Jul 11, 2020
539
97
28
#351
throughfaith said:
He taught that Jesus and lucifer were brothers, denied the trinity , works salvation ,saying ' were saved by grace AFTER all WE can do ' . This is only a few of his heretical beliefs.
Click to expand...
If I must have opinion on his teachings, I must see for myself that which he teaches. I cannot base my opinion on your own understanding of his belief -- with all courtesy observed.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#352
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#352
Jesus first recorded words are actually these .

Luke 2
49¶And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
 
I

infinitekhanol

Active member
#354
Jul 11, 2020
539
97
28
#354
throughfaith said:
2
what if you read " 5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Who do the Jews have to go to ? Is it lawfull for them to go to gentiles then ? The obvious answer is no they could not go to the gentiles . What if that's all you read? why do you preach to gentiles today?

And here :

Matthew 15:24
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Well what if you, like those who heard Jesus only heard these commands and messages? Would you obey Jesus or disobey . Do you think they heard this and thought " yeah well for me , I understand Jesus to really be saying we can go preach to gentiles, let's head to where the 'dogs 'hang out " . Yes later 10 years after Acts 2 we see a transition to the gentiles . But we don't go back and follow the commands Jesus gave back then .
Click to expand...
The same things I said in my previous posts apply here too.

We know that Jesus did not preach to the Jews alone, he also preached to non Jews as well. What do you say about that, seeing your quote in Matthew 15:24?
Even when Paul's teachings were questioned by the Gentiles, and clarification were sought from Jerusalem, were it not the Apostles that formed the council that decided what should be taught to them as regards the issue in question?

For me, restricting our understanding to your line of thought as regards the issue you are raising is not in order. What is important is what they taught -- including all the scenarios surrounding them at that time. What are we learning from all of that.
 
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