Grace is God's mercy.

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

"Grace is the external good that opposes the greater evil, God's wrath.

Grace is God's mercy (misericordia Dei) and favor (favor Dei). This

favorable and friendly attitude toward the sinner is an attitude that God

has in himself. When God shows his grace, a sinner encounters not a

hostile God but a merciful and favorable God. God's favor effects in the

sinner a conviction that God is gracious, and his conscience becomes

joyful, secure, and fearless. ...." [page 55: Karkkainen, Veli-Matti.

(2004). ONE WITH GOD: Salvation as Deification and Justification.

Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press. Liturgical Press: Essential Resources for a Worshiping World ].

God be merciful and gracious unto us in Christ Jesus. Amen and Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington December 2011 AD

 

[zeroturbulence]

****Amen****

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, but then the question arises. If Grace is Gods mercy, which is undeserved (which is what the word means) Why do people want to twist it and make it 'earned" by working to earn it?

 

[Forest]

"Grace is the external good that opposes the greater evil, God's wrath.

Grace is God's mercy (misericordia Dei) and favor (favor Dei). This

favorable and friendly attitude toward the sinner is an attitude that God

has in himself. When God shows his grace, a sinner encounters not a

hostile God but a merciful and favorable God. God's favor effects in the

sinner a conviction that God is gracious, and his conscience becomes

joyful, secure, and fearless. ...." [page 55: Karkkainen, Veli-Matti.

(2004). ONE WITH GOD: Salvation as Deification and Justification.

Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press. Liturgical Press: Essential Resources for a Worshiping World ].

God be merciful and gracious unto us in Christ Jesus. Amen and Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington December 2011 AD

God's grace is an unmerited favour bestowed upon an unworthy creature.

 

[Forest]

Amen, but then the question arises. If Grace is Gods mercy, which is undeserved (which is what the word means) Why do people want to twist it and make it 'earned" by working to earn it?

This makes sense.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

This makes sense.

It can't be earned, but it is not received by "faith alone" (James 2:24), but by "faith which worketh through love" (Galatians 5:6), because "faith without works is dead" (James 2). Grace doesn't mean "no works". Salvation is of God; it doesn't leave people orphans, unchanged, untransformed (see Eph. 2:10) after Eph. 2:8-9). Some people leave out verse ten because it contradicts their man made tradition of faith without works, faith alone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It can't be earned, but it is not received by "faith alone" (James 2:24), but by "faith which worketh through love" (Galatians 5:6), because "faith without works is dead" (James 2). Grace doesn't mean "no works". Salvation is of God; it doesn't leave people orphans, unchanged, untransformed (see Eph. 2:10) after Eph. 2:8-9). Some people leave out verse ten because it contradicts their man made tradition of faith without works, faith alone.

this is a contradiction in itself.

how can something be "unearned" yet have to be earned by working to earn it.

It is like saying here is a gift from me to you. I give it to you only because I love you. But if you want to keep it, you better work for it. Thus the gift stops being a gift, and becomes a downpayment for work, the ultimate end being that the gift is not a gift. but a reward for work produced. If you do not do enough work, the gift which was free is taken back.

Don't listen to the lie Satan has propogated throughout time by trying to work to earn grace. Grace can never be earned by doing anything. It is the work of God through his love, which saves us. You you trust him to keep his word? (faith) or will you trust your own works (work)

 

[Bloodwashed]

That blows my mind!!! Truth is spoken, & then taken away in the very next line. I'm all for works! I pray everyday that I might be about My Fathers bizzness! But it is not Gods Grace plus my works that saves me. Even my works, are a Gift from God! 1 Corinthians 4:7b And what do you have that you did not receive? Trying to be justified by works, is what I call Christian Schizophrenia! We all fall into it from time to time. Thats why we are told to "Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,". Please do read on, in fact get out your concordance & read all the verses on Liberty in the Epistles! God Bless you all! In His Love Mark!

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

this is a contradiction in itself.

how can something be "unearned" yet have to be earned by

working to earn it.

It is like saying here is a gift from me to you. I give it to you

only because I love you. But if you want to keep it, you better

work for it. Thus the gift stops being a gift, and becomes a

downpayment for work, the ultimate end being that the gift is

not a gift. but a reward for work produced. If you do not do

enough work, the gift which was free is taken back.

Don't listen to the lie Satan has propogated throughout time

by trying to work to earn grace. Grace can never be earned by

doing anything. It is the work of God through his love, which

saves us. You you trust him to keep his word? (faith) or will

you trust your own works (work)

Dear Eternallygratefull:

There is no contradiction between God's sovereign gift of free grace

and faith which is working through love of Christ. Love working in

faith in God is no contradiction for God's unmerited favor toward

sinners.


The thief on the Cross received Christ's mercy (grace), because he

repented and was humble before Christ; he confessed his sins to

Christ, and asked Christ to remember him in His Kingdom. Thus, his

faith was not alone, it was not without works of love. His words were

his only works of love, but his attitude was "faith working through

love". He showed his love and respect to Jesus Christ, which bore

good fruit (good works) in acceptable words to Jesus Christ. His good

works were few, but they made an impression, a favorable impression

upon Jesus Christ. He didn't do nothing. He repented. He believed on

Christ. He asked for mercy. He obtained mercy because he was humble

before Christ. The other thief was not forgiven because he mocked

Christ, had a bad attitude, and did not believe on Christ and did not do

any good works of love for Christ. Grace can not be real if it does not

produce faith which "worketh through love" (Gal. 5:6). Salvation is not

by faith alone (James 2:24). There is something greater than mere

faith, mere mental assent to Christ. There is Christian love (1 Cor.

13:13). It is the work of God working through our faith in Him (Eph.

2:8-9) which always results in good works which God Himself does

through/ with/in us, when we walk with God and walk in these good

works which God prepared before hand that we should live in them

(Eph. 2:10). Dead faith does not save any soul. Will you trust your

own faith without works, which is dead faith, which, is, actually, not

faith at all, but disobedience?

Bonhoeffer said it this way: "Only he who believes obeys; only he who

obeys believes." Otherwise, it is cheap grace. The cheap grace in

Germany, (cf. Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship) arose because of

the false Reformation teaching of "sola fide' (faith alone). Don't listen

to the lie of Satan that faith without works is "not dead". God save us

(Titus 3:5). Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Red33]

"Grace is the external good that opposes the greater evil, God's wrath.

Grace is God's mercy (misericordia Dei) and favor (favor Dei). This

favorable and friendly attitude toward the sinner is an attitude that God

has in himself. When God shows his grace, a sinner encounters not a

hostile God but a merciful and favorable God. God's favor effects in the

sinner a conviction that God is gracious, and his conscience becomes

joyful, secure, and fearless. ...." [page 55: Karkkainen, Veli-Matti.

(2004). ONE WITH GOD: Salvation as Deification and Justification.

Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press. Liturgical Press: Essential Resources for a Worshiping World ].

God be merciful and gracious unto us in Christ Jesus. Amen and Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington December 2011 AD

Why do you think that grace is an attribute of God?

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

That blows my mind!!! Truth is spoken, & then

taken away in the very next line. I'm all for works! I pray everyday that

I might be about My Fathers bizzness! But it is not Gods Grace plus my

works that saves me. Even my works, are a Gift from God! 1

Corinthians 4:7b And what do you have that you did not receive?

Trying to be justified by works,


is what I call Christian Schizophrenia! We all fall into it from time to

time. That's why we are told to "Stand fast in the liberty by which

Christ made us free". Please do read on, in fact, get out your


concordance and read all the verses on Liberty in the Epistles! God

bless you all! In His Love Mark!


Dear Bloodwashed.


"You see then that a man is justified by works

and not by faith alone" (James 2:24). So, you
are calling Blessed Saint James the holy

Apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ a "Christian

schizophrenic", then: that's not

your intention, is it?

In Erie Scott Harrington


PS You quote Galatians 5:1, "Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ

made us free", which should better be translated as "Keep on standing

fast therefore in the freedom with which Christ set us free" ONT

(Orthodox New Testament, volume 2, page 246), but you don't go on

to pay any careful (prayerful) attention to Galatians 5:6: "For in

Christ Jesus neither circumcision hath any strength, nor uncircumcision,

but faith energizing (working) itself through love" (ONT, ibid.).

Faith is not alone (Jas. 2:24), but works through love (Gal. 5:6),

because what is greater than "faith alone", but love (1 Cor. 13:13)?

God bless you!

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Why do you think that grace is an attribute of God?

I don't know. The true attributes of God are beyond rational

comprehension (apophaticism).

It was a quote, not my words, so I did not think that grace is an

attribute of God; nor do I think that it is not an attribute of God. There

is only certainty about some attributes of God, that is,

that God is holy and God is love. God is merciful, and

God is just.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

"Grace is the external good that opposes the greater evil, God's wrath.

Grace is God's mercy (misericordia Dei) and favor (favor Dei). This

favorable and friendly attitude toward the sinner is an attitude that God

has in himself. When God shows his grace, a sinner encounters not a

hostile God but a merciful and favorable God. God's favor effects in the

sinner a conviction that God is gracious, and his conscience becomes

joyful, secure, and fearless. ...." [page 55: Karkkainen, Veli-Matti.

(2004). ONE WITH GOD: Salvation as Deification and Justification.

Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press. Liturgical Press: Essential Resources for a Worshiping World ].

God be merciful and gracious unto us in Christ Jesus. Amen and Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington December 2011 AD

God's wrath is not evil...

 

[Red33]

God does not have to be merciful or gracious. These are two things that come from God but He is not obligated in His nature to be so. He desires to be merciful and gracious, but He is just and that is an attribute. He is eternal and there is nothing that can change that, so therefore He is immutable and holy and is all powerful, all knowing and everywhere present. These are attributes of God that make up His eternal nature without the possibility of being altered from who He is. Grace is an activity of God and not an attribute of God. Jesus came by grace and truth. God sent His Son and that was an activity of grace. God was not required to do it but He desired to do it because of sinful man who could not save himself from his sin. The activity of mercy took away what we deserved and the activity of grace gives us what we don't deserve. These activities came from God, who is love, and that is an attribute. If grace was an attribute then all men would be saved or safe from eternal damnation, but they are not.

In God's eternal reality, we are not defined as to who we are by what we do. We are defined by who God has made us to be and what has been imputed to us either by sin or by God's righteousness. We were conceived in sin because it was imputed to us through the Fall of Adam and we were sinners. However, when we believed upon the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ, we become righteous even as He is righteous, having His righteousness imputed to us because we believed. We are righteous because of God's imputed righteousness and even if we sin, (God forbid), God only sees the righteousness that was imputed to us and can not judge us because of sin. Righteousness is an attribute of God that was imputed to us by the activity of God's mercy and grace.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

God's wrath is not evil...

I did not think that it is. You have to remember that may be a Lutheran view. The book I was quoting has some stuff from Finnish Lutheran sources, and some stuff from Greek Orthodox sources. I believe Orthodoxy would say God's wrath is part of His mercy: He cares enough to be angry with those who take His love for granted; we must count the cost of discipleship, and neither presume, nor despair.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Eternallygratefull:

There is no contradiction between God's sovereign gift of free grace

and faith which is working through love of Christ. Love working in

faith in God is no contradiction for God's unmerited favor toward

sinners.


The thief on the Cross received Christ's mercy (grace), because he

repented and was humble before Christ; he confessed his sins to

Christ, and asked Christ to remember him in His Kingdom. Thus, his

faith was not alone, it was not without works of love.

The guy repented. THAT IS ALL. We are to rep[ent. repent is NOT a work, it is a change of heart. Faith is not a work. It is a trust in God. WHy? Because GOD DID ALL THE WORK.

His words were

his only works of love, but his attitude was "faith working through

love". He showed his love and respect to Jesus Christ, which bore

good fruit (good works) in acceptable words to Jesus Christ. His good

works were few, but they made an impression, a favorable impression

upon Jesus Christ. He didn't do nothing. He repented. He believed on

Christ. He asked for mercy. He obtained mercy because he was humble

before Christ. The other thief was not forgiven because he mocked

Christ, had a bad attitude, and did not believe on Christ and did not do

any good works of love for Christ. Grace can not be real if it does not

produce faith which "worketh through love" (Gal. 5:6). Salvation is not

by faith alone (James 2:24). There is something greater than mere

faith, mere mental assent to Christ. There is Christian love (1 Cor.

13:13). It is the work of God working through our faith in Him (Eph.

2:8-9) which always results in good works which God Himself does

through/ with/in us, when we walk with God and walk in these good

works which God prepared before hand that we should live in them

(Eph. 2:10). Dead faith does not save any soul. Will you trust your

own faith without works, which is dead faith, which, is, actually, not

faith at all, but disobedience?

Bonhoeffer said it this way: "Only he who believes obeys; only he who

obeys believes." Otherwise, it is cheap grace. The cheap grace in

Germany, (cf. Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship) arose because of

the false Reformation teaching of "sola fide' (faith alone). Don't listen

to the lie of Satan that faith without works is "not dead". God save us

(Titus 3:5). Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

IF YOUR WORKING TO EARN GRACE, GRACE IS NOT GRACE. PERIOD

THE IS WHAT GOD SAID. NOT EG. NOT ANY REFORMER. GOD SAID IT.

When it says faith working in lovem, it does not mean our works or any works. It means our faqith is working (not dead) in the love which God shared and has given to us. GOD DID THE WORK.

You mock christ when you say his death was not sufficient. Can't you comprehend when you say you must work to earn Gods gift you are mocking Christ?? Scripture does not call Christs death a down payment for our sin. It says he took the debt in full, and nailed it to the cross. there is no more debt to work off. CHRIST PAID IT ALL

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

The guy repented. THAT IS ALL. We are to rep[ent. repent is NOT a work, it is a change of heart. Faith is not a work. It is a trust in God. WHy? Because GOD DID ALL THE WORK.




IF YOUR WORKING TO EARN GRACE, GRACE IS NOT GRACE. PERIOD

THE IS WHAT GOD SAID. NOT EG. NOT ANY REFORMER. GOD SAID IT.

When it says faith working in lovem, it does not mean our works or any works. It means our faqith is working (not dead) in the love which God shared and has given to us. GOD DID THE WORK.

You mock christ when you say his death was not sufficient. Can't you comprehend when you say you must work to earn Gods gift you are mocking Christ?? Scripture does not call Christs death a down payment for our sin. It says he took the debt in full, and nailed it to the cross. there is no more debt to work off. CHRIST PAID IT ALL

Dear Eternallygratefull:

So, you are saying that faith does not work through love, then? Are

you saying that Galatians 5:6 is false? You are, then, contradicting St.

Paul in Galatians 5:6 in the Bible! Are you saying that a loveless faith,

without works, justifies a repentant sinner? You are, then, saying,

that James 2:24 is false? God bless you! In Erie PA Scott R.

Harrington PS Good works do not merit anything. They are produced

beforehand by God for us to walk in Eph. 2:10. When we repent,

believe on Christ alone for salvation, and walk in good works, we are to

say to Christ: "We are unprofitable (unworthy) servants: we have only

done what is our duty to do." (That's in the Bible).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Eternallygratefull:

So, you are saying that faith does not work through love, then? Are

you saying that Galatians 5:6 is false?

You are, then, contradicting St.

Paul in Galatians 5:6 in the Bible! Are you saying that a loveless faith,

without works, justifies a repentant sinner? You are, then, saying,

that James 2:24 is false? God bless you! In Erie PA Scott R.

Harrington PS Good works do not merit anything. They are produced

beforehand by God for us to walk in Eph. 2:10. When we repent,

believe on Christ alone for salvation, and walk in good works, we are to

say to Christ: "We are unprofitable (unworthy) servants: we have only

done what is our duty to do." (That's in the Bible).

Scott. I am sorry that you are so focused on listening to men, and not studying for yourself that you can't see what Paul is saying there:
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 Forin Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

How can you sit there with an open mind and heart and tell me or anyone else Paul is talking about working to be saved here?

1. Paul is talking about circumcision ( A work of the law)
2. Paul tells us that if we try to do this to be saved, we are bound to obay the whole law, not just this, (he calls it bondage)
3. Paul tells us we have liberty in Christ which makes us free
4. Paul tells us if we attempt to be justified by works, we have fallen from Grace.
5. Paul tells us if we get circumcised (work) or do not do this (do not work) it does not matter. Because neither will save us. It is IN CHRIST through which Faith works (It is faith working NOT US) in Love.
6 Paul tells us we in the spirit eagerly await the resurrection. How can one eagerly wait for it if they do not even know if they are going to be resurrected because they have not worked hard enough or done the right things?

He is saying the opposite of what you are trying to believe. He is actually teaching AGAINST works. and your trying to twist what he is saying. this makes no sense.

We can add any work in this.

"In Christ neither baptism or not being baptized avails anything, but faiht working in love. do you not see this? Again, how can you say you have an open mind and come up with this stuff??

as for james. again you are twisting what James said. James is not saying if we do a few works we might be ok. but we better keep working. he said if we have NO WORKS. there is a difference between no works and a few works. can you not comprehend that? How many works is some works vs no works Scott? How much faith is the difference between little faith and a dead faith?? do you know that?

Open your mind and heart and see the crap you are being taught Scott!!