Healing and the Atonement Part 2

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A

Abiding

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#1
#1
Part 1 asked the question is healing a promise in this world based on the atonement.
Most said yes which wasnt surprising because thats what is taught today. But that is not what the bible
teaches.

The Atonement includes everything that has occured from the fall of man. As we still have sin and death.
our final state is where we will be glorified, not now. Sickness will continue till then.Rev.21:4

The intent of this thread both parts was not at all concerning healing. That is not in view here. And although
there have been healing both old and new testement. It is by Gods will, not by promice in the atonement.

Peter and Isaiah 53 are the only place anyone can make any reasonable arguement yet if they read the entire book you will see all words in it that talk of any healing it is a sin issue not a physical infirmity.

Another issue is that all sickness comes from satan. This is the weakest most false teaching ever. Who
announced the curse in the first place? Who then is the curse from. Sure not the devil. The devil may be permitted to deliver a sickness. But the rest is a fairy tail. Im sure believers feel there making God look good
by attributing all uncomfortable issue to the devil, but He didnt ask for that. And outside of a few misunderstood scriptures it has no biblical basis.

Im the first one on my knees for everything, including sickness. Surely I will ask, that if He in His will would heal me. If not there is no raw deal. To say He wants all healed now is not true. If im left with His sufficient
grace. Then I know im in his will.

If anyone disagrees i challenge you for Christs sake to read on carefully. It is not right to ignorantly
pass on false teachings that hurt sick Christians, and dishonor God
 
A

Abiding

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#2
#2
zone Offline
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“He was Pierced for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities” both having to do with sin. Further reading says in V.6 his suffering was for our iniquities. V.8 it was for our transgressions he was stricken.V.10 he was made an offering for our sin. So included is the stripes referring to the healing of our soul from sin. The word ‘iniquity’ is found 4 times in Isaiah 53 and is the emphasis in its discourse.

In 53:5, Christ was crushed for our iniquities. v.6, the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. V.11 He will bear our iniquities. V.12 and He Himself bore the sins of many.

The primary concern in Isaiah 53 is not on its physical effects upon the body, but the spiritual healing on the eternal effects of sin. The context of Christ’s death centers on the issue of sin. Matthew, Peter and the Ethiopian eunuch understood Isaiah 53 in reference to sin.Both the books of Leviticus and Hebrews (which is a commentary on Levitical law) demonstrates that the intent of the atonement is primarily about our sin, not diseases. It has everything to do with our sin problem and the redemption needed to remove sin. As were all the sacrifices from the OT which were types of Christ. Christ’s atonement paid the penalty for our sin. Clearly the major emphasis of Isaiah 53 centers on spiritual salvation.

Do we see the apostles use this as a guarantee for their sicknesses or afflictions? Paul mentions Christ being crushed for our sins in the communion service, but he has nothing to say about healing (using phrases taken from atonement Scriptures). This verse is cited twice in the New Testament. In Romans 4:25: where the context is Jesus suffering for our sins. The Greek term `healing’ ( The Greek therapis from the Hebrew rapha) is not found in the text and the context deals with sin, not illness.

1 Peter 2:24 “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness-- by whose stripes you were healed.” Again the context is that of healing from sin. So we see that neither New Testament reference to this verse even mentions illness. Peter applies this to the cross and the spiritual healing of sins; he says nothing about the healing of diseases in our now mortal bodies. So we see that both New Testament references to this verse do not mention illness; furthermore it is in the past tense, “ you were healed.”

When Isaiah 53:5 says we are healed. Peter refers to the stripes being on the cross (not before), and says by whose stripes you were healed, making it past tense. Showing that this event was accomplished. It is related to our spiritual healing from sin not our physical well-being. To further support this interpretation, Isaiah 53:6 speaks of us as sheep going astray. 1 Peter 2:25 also portrays us as sheep gone astray but now returning to the shepherd of our souls to be brought back into fellowship. Today Jesus heals through His death, (the atonement) and through His present ministry of intercession.

Jesus while He was physically on earth healed people physically. Because of His death His healing is applied to our sins for those who accept His sacrifice. The word “stripes” is in the singular, which probably relates to his being struck once (Moses was to strike the rock once). Jesus the rock was struck only once to cure sins, and Christ died for sins once. The stripe on the cross is related to sins, He bore our sins on the cross, not our sicknesses. While sicknesses can be caused by sin, there is no inclusion for them. Death is a disease that terminates life, just as sicknesses limit our quality of life now. Today death still occurs to non-believers and believers alike. If our sicknesses were all to be healed now, we would not die, for death is a consequence of sin.

The phrase “we were healed” in Strongs Concordance the Hebrew word is chabbuwrah- meaning bound (with stripes), i.e. a weal (or black-and-blue mark itself): The root word is #2266 chabar-1) to unite, to join, to bind together, to be joined, to be coupled, to be in league, to heap up, to have fellowship with, to unite, to join oneself to, to make an alliance. When the Scripture says by His stripes we were healed, it means our healing came through being united to God spiritually. We now have fellowship where sin once kept us from it. While this does not dismiss the possibility of physically healing, but it in no way guarantees it. To teach that this is an absolute promise can be just as much a disservice as to teach someone that God no longer heals!

The atonement brings redemption from sin but has not eradicated sin. Neither should we think it can do so for healing. We have not yet received the redemption of our bodies this will be dealt with at the resurrection not before. In other words we die because we are not cured physically from our sickness of sin. This is reserved as the last enemy to be conquered by the resurrection.

By his stripes I am healed
 
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Abiding

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#3
#3
Posted by zone from Part 1 check link



physical healing has ZERO to do with The Atonement.
Jesus suffered and died to reconcile us to God- to heal the breach of fellowship and communion with God because of OUR SIN.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

Proverbs 20:30
Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.

Isaiah 6:7
With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

it's all about MAN'S SIN PROBLEM.

Christ was crucified IN OUR STEAD for our SINS. not our back pain or the flu.

We are healed - literally, it is healed to us; or healing has happened to us. The healing here referred to, is spiritual healing, or healing from sin. Pardon of sin, and restoration to the favor of God, are not unfrequently represented as an act of healing. The figure is derived from the fact that awakened and convicted sinners are often represented as crushed, broken, bruised by the weight of their transgressions, and the removal of the load of sin is repesented as an act of healing. 'I said, O Lord, be merciful unto me; heal my soul, for I have sinned againt thee' Psalm 41:4. Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am weak; O Lord, heal me, for my bones are vexed' Psalm 6:2. 'Who forgiveth all thine, iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases Psalm 103:3. The idea here is, that the Messiah would be scourged; and that it would be by that scourging that health would be imparted to our souls.
Barnes'

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you know....here we have an APOSTLE (they were also prophets)....:

if physical healing is part of the Atonement, why did Paul not only leave Trophimus sick, but record it?

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus remained at Corinth, and I left Trophimus, who was ill, at Miletus.

and if physical healing is part of the Atonement, why would anyone with a "gift of healing" be needed?
it would be FULL and automatic and done by God alone in every single believer at the same time they are JUSTIFIED.

the church has historically NEVER taught physical healing as part of the Atonement.

please.

can we GET SERIOUS?
Is Healing In The Atonement? | Charismatic Movement | Way of Life Literature
Last edited by zone; 2 Days Ago at 06:48 PM.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#4
#4
If any believers are spreading the teaching that
God wants us all healed and we have to have faith
to get it. For Christs sake and for sick believers
i ask you to do your homework.

I have always had good health and in 30 years ive seen
this teaching crush people who will rarely go to church.

with any request ill be happy to report the facts on faith healing and faith healers
It might be surprising to some to find out the real truth about them. If you thought
there was any truth about them. :)
 
S

selenah

Guest
#5
#5
Awww rats I thought my myopia could be healed :(
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#6
#6
I usually just whack myself upside the head for that, but i grew
up in the tube and transister days, you wouldnt understand that :)
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#7
#7
Test of your heart and whose child you really are:

would your rather have Jesus as your Lord and Savior, not matter what happens to you in this life, even if you had to be burnt at the stake, beaten, homeless, without clothes, starved, ridiculed for your beliefs in Jesus?

or

Have everything this world has to offer: family, money, cars, clothes, good health, fame, power, knowledge, wisdom, healing powers, respect of others, ability to see the future, supernatural powers, ability to fly, walk through walls, become invisible, etc?

(note: there are demons that have granted all those powers to their slaves recorded in historical documents of the vedas, upanishads, etc)
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#8
#8
sorry my internet is acting up. visiting mom. lol double post....so just rambling right now
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2010
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#9
AnandaHya said:
Test of your heart and whose child you really are:

would your rather have Jesus as your Lord and Savior, not matter what happens to you in this life, even if you had to be burnt at the stake, beaten, homeless, without clothes, starved, ridiculed for your beliefs in Jesus?
Click to expand...
2 Corinthians 11
Paul’s Sufferings as an Apostle
16I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not with the Lord’s authority but as a fool. 18Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!

But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food,a in cold and exposure. 28And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?

30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#12
#12
Abiding said:
Enjoying God Ministries
Click to expand...
yep that about sums it up:

"Conclusion:


Let us never cease to pray now for the sick to be healed. Let us continually give thanks that there is bodily healing for us in the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Let us forever acknowledge that whatever healing and health we experience now is a blessing that flows from Calvary's tree.

But let us also remember that there are certain blessings that God intends to bestow in their consummate fullness only when the Lord Jesus returns.

Until then we weep, suffer, and die.

On that glorious day when the Savior appears, then shall come to pass the words of

Revelation 21:3-4, 'and I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, 'Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men,
and He shall dwell among them, and they shall be His people,
and God Himself shall be among them, and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there shall no longer be any death;
there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.'"

lol ( I skipped to the conclusion)
 
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zone

zone

Senior Member
#13
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
Abiding said:
Enjoying God Ministries
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Colin Urquhart concurs:

"When Jesus stood bearing the lashes from the Roman soldiers, all our physical pain and sicknesses were being heaped upon him. . . It is as if one lash was for cancer, another for bone disease, another for heart disease, and so on. Everything that causes physical pain was laid on Jesus as the nails were driven into His hands and feet."
HUH?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
#14
I had a prepared paper planned for this part of this thread topic, now im not finding it.
Some of it will be in the apostle, prophet part2

But I think if anyone needs to learn about this very important topic they
will read over all the material that has been given in the posts so far and the
links. It pleases the Lord, approved of God. To rightly divide the word.
Lest we dishonor him repeating false doctrines.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#15
#15
zone said:
Colin Urquhart concurs:

"When Jesus stood bearing the lashes from the Roman soldiers, all our physical pain and sicknesses were being heaped upon him. . . It is as if one lash was for cancer, another for bone disease, another for heart disease, and so on. Everything that causes physical pain was laid on Jesus as the nails were driven into His hands and feet."
HUH?
Click to expand...

Weird I better read them through better, sorry. ty. Still looking for my intended paper.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#16
#16
zone said:
Colin Urquhart concurs:

"When Jesus stood bearing the lashes from the Roman soldiers, all our physical pain and sicknesses were being heaped upon him. . . It is as if one lash was for cancer, another for bone disease, another for heart disease, and so on. Everything that causes physical pain was laid on Jesus as the nails were driven into His hands and feet."
HUH?
Click to expand...

How can anyone come up with that I wonder? sickness is result of sin, not a sin.
 
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