Hermeneutics: Interpreting Scripture

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
3,407
727
113
Why did you decide to do this work here rather than post it on the UGE thread?
 
Oct 19, 2024
5,341
1,113
113
USA-TX
Why did you decide to do this work here rather than post it on the UGE thread?
Because as you said in post #369, "Good idea. Election is impossible to truly discuss on the other thread you identify."

Do you have any comments about how I introduced this topic and have developed it so far?

I was intending to complete my initial line of inquiry with another post discussing the P in TULIP,
but I would like to know where you think it would be good to go by way of a systematic or logical direction after that--
perhaps based on further material from the UGE thread?
 
Oct 19, 2024
5,341
1,113
113
USA-TX
Now we might return to the analysis of the concluding part of the OP in the UGE thread:

6a. “Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …
“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)”

Yes, and reading Romans from the beginning reveals that God calls/offers grace or mercy to all.

6b. “God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!”

Yes, and everyone is treated justly, because God does not show favoritism.

6c. “God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.
“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9) God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent … the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.”

Yes, God’s intent is for all to be saved, which is possible because He offers grace to all and enables all to believe GW/the Gospel—or not (because of God's permissive will).

6d. “Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).”

Yes, true. Saints do not achieve perfection during this earthly experience.

6e. “The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others
Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.”

No, this statement does not affirm Scripture teaching that all may be saved,
but some are stubborn or have callous hearts that ignore God’s grace/GW, which grieves God.

6f. “Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.
Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.”

No, this statement ignores Scripture teaching that faith is the condition for security from beginning to end, which brings us to consider the end of TULIP, the P for perseverance, which is the easiest to refute because there are so many Scriptures supporting the possibility of apostasy.

The classic passage that teaches the possibility of apostasy is Hebrews 6:4-6: “It is impossible for those who have… shared in the Holy Spirit… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again.” Another verse in this vein is Galatians 5:4: “You who are trying to be justified by law… have fallen away from grace.” (Others include Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10.

The P in TULIP denies the Permissive will of God that allows MFW and thus the Possibility of apostasy.