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T
I've heard the same sentiment expressed about college. Both high school and college seem to be something of a joke these days. It is really sad when me, a homeschooler, knows more on a subject than a public schooler does because they are supposed to be the ones that have the professional teachers with a degree. ? It just doesn't make sense to me.
The idea that one "learns nothing" in high school is not a matter of opinion. Facts are things that can be proven. There is PLENTY of research from a variety of sources to show that students in fact LEARN A GREAT DEAL during high school. Again, let me emphasize...THIS IS A FACT. It is not a matter of opinion.
As someone who has taught both middle school and high school, I can assure you that 13 year olds (which is the age most students finish the 8th grade) are COMPLETELY UNPREPARED to do college level work. Part of the "watering down" process that has happened within education has been this insistence that brain development and social development are unnecessary considerations...that students can actually learn anything at any time.
Here are college-level expectations that the vast majority of 13-year-olds could not handle:
1. Being completely self-motivated. In college no one cares if you attend class. No one cares if you don't do the readings and are not prepared. No one cares if you decide to spend your money failing a class. HOWEVER, in a public high school, we follow all kinds of rules and policies to show how we are trying to reach students and help them successfully learn material.
2. Learning ON YOUR OWN from a book. The vast majority of PEOPLE (teens and adults) read only FIVE books a year. When I was in college, I'd be in class 12-15 hours and then the rest of the time I'd be READING and RESEARCHING on my own. I had classes where we were reading a book a WEEK. Granted, I was a lit major, but 13 year olds are far less likely to read a TEXTBOOK than they are a work of fiction (I know this from experience).
3. The ability to think analytically. This is no disparagement to 13-year-olds, but they simply do not yet have the capacity to engage in COLLEGE LEVEL analytical thinking. They lack the knowledge base, life experience, and brain development.
4. Vocabulary development. The VAST MAJORITY of 13-year-olds cannot read at the college level. They lack the necessary vocabulary to engage with college level texts.
5. Knowledge base. Even very smart, very well-read students lack the knowledge to tackle college level classes. If you send 13-year-olds to college, they will have zero experience with algebra...how can they do college level algebra? They will have zero experience writing a variety of essays...how can they write college level essays in their basic English courses? They will have zero experiences with focused study on the various sciences...how will they handle college level biology, chemistry, and physics?
It's easy for someone who is not responsible for teaching others to presume that their own sense of boredom or disenchantment is universal. It's easy for people to globalize their own experience and apply it to others. I can assure you, as someone who has worked within education AND knows about brain development and learning that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that 13-year-olds could handle college level work. Certainly, there may be a few outliers (and, btw, there are very young students--prodigies--who have gone to college). This is NOT normative.
As someone who has taught both middle school and high school, I can assure you that 13 year olds (which is the age most students finish the 8th grade) are COMPLETELY UNPREPARED to do college level work. Part of the "watering down" process that has happened within education has been this insistence that brain development and social development are unnecessary considerations...that students can actually learn anything at any time.
Here are college-level expectations that the vast majority of 13-year-olds could not handle:
1. Being completely self-motivated. In college no one cares if you attend class. No one cares if you don't do the readings and are not prepared. No one cares if you decide to spend your money failing a class. HOWEVER, in a public high school, we follow all kinds of rules and policies to show how we are trying to reach students and help them successfully learn material.
2. Learning ON YOUR OWN from a book. The vast majority of PEOPLE (teens and adults) read only FIVE books a year. When I was in college, I'd be in class 12-15 hours and then the rest of the time I'd be READING and RESEARCHING on my own. I had classes where we were reading a book a WEEK. Granted, I was a lit major, but 13 year olds are far less likely to read a TEXTBOOK than they are a work of fiction (I know this from experience).
3. The ability to think analytically. This is no disparagement to 13-year-olds, but they simply do not yet have the capacity to engage in COLLEGE LEVEL analytical thinking. They lack the knowledge base, life experience, and brain development.
4. Vocabulary development. The VAST MAJORITY of 13-year-olds cannot read at the college level. They lack the necessary vocabulary to engage with college level texts.
5. Knowledge base. Even very smart, very well-read students lack the knowledge to tackle college level classes. If you send 13-year-olds to college, they will have zero experience with algebra...how can they do college level algebra? They will have zero experience writing a variety of essays...how can they write college level essays in their basic English courses? They will have zero experiences with focused study on the various sciences...how will they handle college level biology, chemistry, and physics?
It's easy for someone who is not responsible for teaching others to presume that their own sense of boredom or disenchantment is universal. It's easy for people to globalize their own experience and apply it to others. I can assure you, as someone who has worked within education AND knows about brain development and learning that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that 13-year-olds could handle college level work. Certainly, there may be a few outliers (and, btw, there are very young students--prodigies--who have gone to college). This is NOT normative.
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C
I disagree. When I was 13, I had my Professional Development Series certificate from FEMA, and was trailing the Emergency Manager of my county. I was also reading college level textbooks on Accident Investigation, Emergency Management, the weather, Firefighting tactics and suppression, the list goes on. And this is when I was 13. Now Im 17, a certified EMT, with Advanced Life Support qualifications, and Im getting ready to do Lifeguard training. I did all this on my own.
T
Colt, have you ever thought that you might be more motivated than the average? 
I would say that some people would have a hard time getting into college classes at that age, and that some occupations would need more general study in high school before you're ready to go to college. It usually depends on the person, my sister could have graduated college at age 18, because she was ready to read (REALLY read) at age four. Some people aren't ready for college at age 18 when they're "supposed" to go.
I would say that some people would have a hard time getting into college classes at that age, and that some occupations would need more general study in high school before you're ready to go to college. It usually depends on the person, my sister could have graduated college at age 18, because she was ready to read (REALLY read) at age four. Some people aren't ready for college at age 18 when they're "supposed" to go.Not quite sure what the different US educational terms apply to...
However, here in the UK (N. Ireland), I went to what is called a Primary School, from 4-11 years, then depending on how you did in what was called 11 Plus, if you passed you could then go to what is called a Grammar School, or if you didn't pass you would normally go to either a Secondary School or High School until you were 16, then you either went on to College or got a job (quite often doing a 3-4 year apprenticeship). If you went to Grammar School, most people stayed there until there were 18, then having got good grades in their A Levels went onto University.
I went to a Grammar School (all my siblings did as well), but I was rather lazy and did no work, but thoroughly enjoyed those days at a rather posh school, a lot of sport played and after school clubs. I left there at 16 and went onto a private school and got a few more exams that I should have got at the Grammar School. When I turned 18, being thoroughly fed up with going to school I went out and got a job, and did various things until I was 27, then I went off to University (as a mature student) and did a Masters degree in a specialist medical field, which took me up until I was 32 and that has been my profession since.
However, here in the UK (N. Ireland), I went to what is called a Primary School, from 4-11 years, then depending on how you did in what was called 11 Plus, if you passed you could then go to what is called a Grammar School, or if you didn't pass you would normally go to either a Secondary School or High School until you were 16, then you either went on to College or got a job (quite often doing a 3-4 year apprenticeship). If you went to Grammar School, most people stayed there until there were 18, then having got good grades in their A Levels went onto University.
I went to a Grammar School (all my siblings did as well), but I was rather lazy and did no work, but thoroughly enjoyed those days at a rather posh school, a lot of sport played and after school clubs. I left there at 16 and went onto a private school and got a few more exams that I should have got at the Grammar School. When I turned 18, being thoroughly fed up with going to school I went out and got a job, and did various things until I was 27, then I went off to University (as a mature student) and did a Masters degree in a specialist medical field, which took me up until I was 32 and that has been my profession since.
I kind of agree with this.. they really don't teach you anything useful in high school. By high school you should already know all the basic reading and grammar skills as well as arithmetic. It's basically a for your popularity contest. But next we need to address the issue of why college is so ridiculously expensive. Many people spend four years of college and then spend the rest of our lives paying for it. Did you have a slim chance of finding a job in the field that you just spent all that money studying. So essentially you just purchased a $40,000 piece of paper
D
Year old thread, but I'll bite.
What we learned in high school isn't necessarily what is now being taught in high school. Without high school, I'd be historically illiterate. It would have never dawned on me that starting a new country teaches anything about life. It would never dawned on me that making a cotton gin or an engine would change society. It never would have dawned on me that maybe genocide is a bad thing, particularly given my mind would have been set on only my ethnic background is the "proper" mindset. Of course, we were just getting to the point of going from thinking for yourself to thinking what teachers dubbed as the proper mindset back when I was in high school, so now that it is teaching the proper mindset, history is out. You can't really teach that life matters anymore, except for the proper PC lives, so heaven forbid, they teach that there was good and bad in setting up a new country devoid of a state religion or that religion has benefits as well as negatives. Religion-bad is taught now.
And, as much as I still hate it, try calculating how much was removed from your paycheck for taxes without ever taking algebra, and try figuring how many tiles is needed to put in a new kitchen floor without geometry.
Without high school, I would have never learned how to write an essay or an article. I would have never been taught how to footnote, even if now I have very few memories of how to footnote. At least I learned how to gather material to learn whatever I wanted in high school.
Without high school, I would never have learned there are choices after high school. In my case, I would have been forced into being a secretary, or, worse yet, just go to college to find meself a Man to take care of little ole me all my life.
Funny thing, I did choose college, did graduate, never even looked for a Man, and ended up getting married and then doing office administration and bookkeeping, so life didn't change that drastically, except it wasn't forced on me.
We teach kids what they need to know in the time and space we think it should take them to learn it. John Quincy Adams already had the diplomatic experience to be the ambassador to the Netherlands when he was 14. Ben Franklin ran away from his brother's apprenticeship and landed in Philadelphia when he was 17. Franz Liszt wrote his first musical composition at 4. And S.E. Hinton published her first novel while still in high school.
Nowadays, we're teaching people they're still too young to get married at 30. And, they believe that. I think schooling should be reconsidered, but never from the viewpoint of people who have made it their career to educate the asses. That's conflict of interest. Then again, do I really want it decided by those who thought high school was useless?
What we learned in high school isn't necessarily what is now being taught in high school. Without high school, I'd be historically illiterate. It would have never dawned on me that starting a new country teaches anything about life. It would never dawned on me that making a cotton gin or an engine would change society. It never would have dawned on me that maybe genocide is a bad thing, particularly given my mind would have been set on only my ethnic background is the "proper" mindset. Of course, we were just getting to the point of going from thinking for yourself to thinking what teachers dubbed as the proper mindset back when I was in high school, so now that it is teaching the proper mindset, history is out. You can't really teach that life matters anymore, except for the proper PC lives, so heaven forbid, they teach that there was good and bad in setting up a new country devoid of a state religion or that religion has benefits as well as negatives. Religion-bad is taught now.
And, as much as I still hate it, try calculating how much was removed from your paycheck for taxes without ever taking algebra, and try figuring how many tiles is needed to put in a new kitchen floor without geometry.
Without high school, I would have never learned how to write an essay or an article. I would have never been taught how to footnote, even if now I have very few memories of how to footnote. At least I learned how to gather material to learn whatever I wanted in high school.
Without high school, I would never have learned there are choices after high school. In my case, I would have been forced into being a secretary, or, worse yet, just go to college to find meself a Man to take care of little ole me all my life.
Funny thing, I did choose college, did graduate, never even looked for a Man, and ended up getting married and then doing office administration and bookkeeping, so life didn't change that drastically, except it wasn't forced on me.
We teach kids what they need to know in the time and space we think it should take them to learn it. John Quincy Adams already had the diplomatic experience to be the ambassador to the Netherlands when he was 14. Ben Franklin ran away from his brother's apprenticeship and landed in Philadelphia when he was 17. Franz Liszt wrote his first musical composition at 4. And S.E. Hinton published her first novel while still in high school.
Nowadays, we're teaching people they're still too young to get married at 30. And, they believe that. I think schooling should be reconsidered, but never from the viewpoint of people who have made it their career to educate the asses. That's conflict of interest. Then again, do I really want it decided by those who thought high school was useless?
C
My son asked me something today about biology. I said I have no idea. But you went to high school! Yup I put the books in my head, spouted it out with an exam and it was gone LOL. I never ever use it for my job. All I do is draw maps. Kindergarten would have been enough. And I play with my kids. Learned that there too.
U
It's a giant waste of time, even those with creative spirits/non-traditional learners are crushed and dumbed down for fellow students who are either lazy or with a lower IQ. Common core and no child left behind are stupid excuses to dumb down society...
To all those who are in HS, stay in school, it's good to get that diploma and stuff, but in the real world they (school) doesn't teach you what you really need for life...mostly awareness and to ask questions and not take anything at face value but investigate.
To all those who are in HS, stay in school, it's good to get that diploma and stuff, but in the real world they (school) doesn't teach you what you really need for life...mostly awareness and to ask questions and not take anything at face value but investigate.
It is natural that the people paying the bill will want to get a product they approve of. When that product is the thoughts and training of young people and the payer is a political institution it is to be expected that the end result will be young people with a political outlook and agenda acceptable to the political power in charge.
Government run and funded indoctrination centers (a.k.a. public schools/colleges) are dangerous to children, students, parents, families, and society. They have long since stopped (if ever they started) teaching morality, ethics, and critical thinking.
It is also natural that those who wish to abuse children will seek jobs that give them access to children, more so with jobs that give them a perception of authority over children.
Government run and funded indoctrination centers (a.k.a. public schools/colleges) are dangerous to children, students, parents, families, and society. They have long since stopped (if ever they started) teaching morality, ethics, and critical thinking.
It is also natural that those who wish to abuse children will seek jobs that give them access to children, more so with jobs that give them a perception of authority over children.
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