How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

[Locoponydirtman]

There can never be another temple of God. That temple is established as Christ Jesus in us the believer by the Holy Spirit.
God will not nullify the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and re-establish animal sacrifices.
Any man made temple built on earth in attempt to rebuild the temple of Solomon will be an afront to Christ and any animal sacrifice will be an abomination. The performers of these things will be an anti christ.

All the warnings Jesus gives about his return and about being ready are given so that we stay diligent about the things He has given us to do. Not for us to prognosticate about world events.
He could come at any time, as it is written, He will come as a thief in the night, and at an time not expected. This is written many times. Jesus gave the parable of the ten virgins along with many other parables about His coming, as a lesson to us. All of those parables and teachings say that He is coming at an unexpected time. Everyone of them give a warning about what we are to be doing at the time of His return. We are to be being diligent and wise and about the business He has given us to do. No where is it written for us to be making charts and maps and plans for building a new temple, or trying to figure out when He is returning.
If He does not return during yours or my sojourn here on this earth, He will collect us to Him.

 

[cv5]

This entire earthly temple business is suspect.

The entire pretrib "rapturing of the Church" to wait out the 1000 year kingdom

Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity

This entire earthly temple business is suspect.
Other than the fact that entire chapter of the OT are dedicated to it description, dimensions, practices and location in the most exquisite detail.

The entire pretrib "rapturing of the Church" to wait out the 1000 year kingdom
Nonsense. Pre-tribbers believe in no such thing. In fact we reign with Christ during the millenium.

Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity
By your standard, Jesus himself was a dispensationalist.

Mat 12:32
“Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mat 13:40
“Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

Mat 19:28
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luk 19:42
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes

 

[Locoponydirtman]

This entire earthly temple business is suspect.
Other than the fact that entire chapter of the OT are dedicated to it description, dimensions, practices and location in the most exquisite detail.

Which OT chapter?

Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity
By your standard, Jesus himself was a dispensationalist.

Jesus refuted the talmud many times. He was not talmudic.

 

[VCO]

You have continually gone off the rails here. I asked you where you got your "one seat in the temple" concept. Instead of answering, you completely changed the topic to pre-trib rapture. And when asked where your ideas about that come from, you derailed the conversation again so you could talk about being Born Again.

It isn't clear to me what a pre-trib rapture would have to do with a single temple seat, or what being born again would have to do with a pre-trib rapture.

You still haven't admitted to where your "one seat in the temple" concept comes from. You still haven't admitted to where your pre-trib rapture concept comes from. It isn't from Christian scripture and you know it.

I asked you if you are a Dispensationalist. You didn't exactly say no.

Will you concede the point that you are falsely presenting concepts as though they come straight from scripture? Can you at least have the integrity to concede that you are just presenting speculative theories on scripture rather than concrete concepts that are necessitated by scripture?

NO, IT COMES FROM THE JEWS, I showed you a Picture their are NO SEATS IN GOD'S TEMPLE, except the Mercy SEAT. It goes all the way back to the Tabernacle of David:

Quote:
There were no seats in the tabernacle, as the work of the priest was not finished until Christ came. Only when his work was completed, did he sit down. :End Quote.

Quote:
The Bible indicates that, for the priests serving in the tabernacle, there was no sitting on the job either. Consider the furnishings in the tabernacle. There was an altar, a large basin for washing, curtains, a table, an ark, and a lamp stand. Interestingly, there is no chair in the tabernacle. Dan Phillips observes that the reason for the absence of a chair in the tabernacle is the same reason I never had a chance to sit while working in the warehouse – the work never ended.

The writer of Hebrews captures this poignantly in Hebrews 10:11: “Every priest stands daily at his service offering repeatedly the same sacrifices which can never take away sins.” The priest stands daily at his service offering repeatedly the same sacrifices. No wonder there is no chair in the tabernacle! There would be no opportunity to sit on the job!

But read on and hear the good news, “But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.” In his death on the cross for sinners like me, Jesus completed what no other priest had been able to do previously – he satisfied the Heavenly Father’s demands of justice by suffering for sins in my place.

The priests in the tabernacle had no need of a chair because their work never ended, but Jesus Christ, the Great High Priest, offered himself as a single sacrifice for sins, for all time (Hebrews 10:12). After his sacrifice was offered and accepted, he did what no other priest serving in the tabernacle had done before. He pulled up a chair and sat down. :End Quote.



My turn to ask a question.

Why Do you Not want to believe in BORN AGAIN?

Oh, I answered you right. I do not consider myself Dispensationalist. I hate those kind of LABELS, they are used wrongly to Put Down other Christians. I am a Born Again Believer in CHRIST, my LORD. End of Subject.

 

[Jocund]

NO, IT COMES FROM THE JEWS

And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?

 

[Mem]

Nonsense. Pre-tribbers believe in no such thing. In fact we reign with Christ during the millenium.

This sounds eerily similar to amillenialism?

 

[Mem]

Jesus gave the parable of the ten virgins along with many other parables about His coming,

I recently heard or read it noted that the virgins falling asleep alludes to death and I wondered why that hadn't occurred to me before considering it fits perfectly with those with oil waking and brought into the groom's chamber and those finding themselves with no oil upon 'awaking' being cast out into outer darkness, an idiom of used to connote those forever lost. This is the terrible aspect of His coming, but those that fear His name will leap like calves released from the stall (Mal 4:2).
I do wonder that the oil is symbolic of that of joy, as the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings for those with oil while those who are without will be set ablaze.

 

[VCO]

Objects inside the TEMPLE, includes the Ark of the Covenant.

QUOTE: Inside the Holy of Holies was the sacred Ark of the Covenant, a large box which, according to legend, housed the Ten Commandments (and possibly also a scroll of the Torah). According to the Hebrew Bible, it was to be 2.5 by 1.5 by 1.5 cubits — or about 45 inches long and 27 inches square on the end (Exodus 25:10). It was supposed to be gilded all in gold and have four rings secured to the sides so two poles could be threaded through and used to carry it. The lid of the ark was called the kapparot, or
“mercy seat,” and it was guarded by two gold cherubim perched on top of it. :END QUOTE.



That seems LOGICAL. Because if you want GOD to sit there, you are not going to make it with Bumps and Elaborate Decorations on top to make HIM uncomfortable. It says in the description in the BIBLE, Wings Touch, but it does not say all WINGS have to Touch, so logic tells me the inside wings would make an arm rest.

Exodus 35:4-19 (ESV)
4 Moses said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “This is the thing that the LORD has commanded.
5 Take from among you a contribution to the LORD. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the LORD’s contribution: gold, silver, and bronze;
6 blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen; goats’ hair,
7 tanned rams’ skins, and goatskins; acacia wood,
8 oil for the light, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense,
9 and onyx stones and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece.
10 “Let every skillful craftsman among you come and make all that the LORD has commanded:
11 the tabernacle, its tent and its covering, its hooks and its frames, its bars, its pillars, and its bases;
12 the ark with its poles, the mercy seat, and the veil of the screen;
13 the table with its poles and all its utensils, and the bread of the Presence;
14 the lampstand also for the light, with its utensils and its lamps, and the oil for the light;
15 and the altar of incense, with its poles, and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense, and the screen for the door, at the door of the tabernacle;
16 the altar of burnt offering, with its grating of bronze, its poles, and all its utensils, the basin and its stand;
17 the hangings of the court, its pillars and its bases, and the screen for the gate of the court;
18 the pegs of the tabernacle and the pegs of the court, and their cords;
19 the finely worked garments for ministering in the Holy Place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, for their service as priests.”

Their is GOD's Shopping List for the TABERNACLE. AND THERE IS ONLY ONE SEAT ORDERED. NO PEWS, NO SEATS FOR OTHERS OR THE PRIESTS, NO CHAIRS, NO CAMP STOOLS, NONE OF THAT GOES INTO THE TABERNACLE OR TEMPLE.

 

[VCO]

And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?

You did not answer my question.

I MEAN EXACTLY WHAT GOD MEANT.

That is your first warning, about being argumentive.

 

[cv5]

Objects inside the TEMPLE, includes the Ark of the Covenant.

QUOTE: Inside the Holy of Holies was the sacred Ark of the Covenant, a large box which, according to legend, housed the Ten Commandments (and possibly also a scroll of the Torah). According to the Hebrew Bible, it was to be 2.5 by 1.5 by 1.5 cubits — or about 45 inches long and 27 inches square on the end (Exodus 25:10). It was supposed to be gilded all in gold and have four rings secured to the sides so two poles could be threaded through and used to carry it. The lid of the ark was called the kapparot, or
“mercy seat,” and it was guarded by two gold cherubim perched on top of it. :END QUOTE.

View attachment 245666

That seems LOGICAL. Because if you want GOD to sit there, you are not going to make it with Bumps and Elaborate Decorations on top to make HIM uncomfortable. It says in the description in the BIBLE, Wings Touch, but it does not say all WINGS have to Touch, so logic tells me the inside wings would make an arm rest.

Exodus 35:4-19 (ESV)
4 Moses said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “This is the thing that the LORD has commanded.
5 Take from among you a contribution to the LORD. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the LORD’s contribution: gold, silver, and bronze;
6 blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen; goats’ hair,
7 tanned rams’ skins, and goatskins; acacia wood,
8 oil for the light, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense,
9 and onyx stones and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece.
10 “Let every skillful craftsman among you come and make all that the LORD has commanded:
11 the tabernacle, its tent and its covering, its hooks and its frames, its bars, its pillars, and its bases;
12 the ark with its poles, the mercy seat, and the veil of the screen;
13 the table with its poles and all its utensils, and the bread of the Presence;
14 the lampstand also for the light, with its utensils and its lamps, and the oil for the light;
15 and the altar of incense, with its poles, and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense, and the screen for the door, at the door of the tabernacle;
16 the altar of burnt offering, with its grating of bronze, its poles, and all its utensils, the basin and its stand;
17 the hangings of the court, its pillars and its bases, and the screen for the gate of the court;
18 the pegs of the tabernacle and the pegs of the court, and their cords;
19 the finely worked garments for ministering in the Holy Place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, for their service as priests.”

Their is GOD's Shopping List for the TABERNACLE. AND THERE IS ONLY ONE SEAT ORDERED. NO PEWS, NO SEATS FOR OTHERS OR THE PRIESTS, NO CHAIRS, NO CAMP STOOLS, NONE OF THAT GOES INTO THE TABERNACLE OR TEMPLE.

Originally the Ark contained the two tablets, a pot of manna, and Aaron's rod that budded.

 

[cv5]

And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?

If they are in fact the sons of Jacob......then yes, whatever their religious practices.

 

[Jocund]

You did not answer my question.

I MEAN EXACTLY WHAT GOD MEANT.

That is your first warning, about being argumentive.

Until you address the points in post 280 we have nothing more to talk about.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I recently heard or read it noted that the virgins falling asleep alludes to death and I wondered why that hadn't occurred to me before considering it fits perfectly with those with oil waking and brought into the groom's chamber and those finding themselves with no oil upon 'awaking' being cast out into outer darkness, an idiom of used to connote those forever lost. This is the terrible aspect of His coming, but those that fear His name will leap like calves released from the stall (Mal 4:2).
I do wonder that the oil is symbolic of that of joy, as the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings for those with oil while those who are without will be set ablaze.

Interesting.
I have understood the lamps being faith and the oil being that which feeds faith, (that being his word).
I try not to over think these things because it is my nature to do so.
What i do know is that Jesus comes at a time when they did not expect, and had to be awakened. (I like your explanation, possibly because they had died, and awaken to the judgement) and one group did not have what was necessary to enter the kingdom because they were not wise.
In all of the parables about the return of Jesus, He says that He returns at an unexpected time, amd rewards those that are doing what theu were supposed to be doung and punishes those who were up to other things.
Speculating about the time and signs of His return is not one of the things we are to be up to, and we are certainly not to be abusing those who refute such speculation and casting shade on their salvation ( as is done by one of the fellows in this very thread).
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Of coarse reading the entire chapter (Mathew 24) answers the question concerning dispensationalism. Jesus is very clear; there is no place or reason for such behavior and thought. If one bkthers to read His words altogether in context, this new temple and return to sacrifices is not plain not there. In fact tgis thinking gibes rise to the idea that some things must occur for Jesus to return and becomes a cause for abusive behavior.
Its late, i have worked all day so i hole my post makes sense.

 

[VCO]

Until you address the points in post 280 we have nothing more to talk about.

Sounds good to me. You didn't even try to answer my Question? And I did answer your question.

 

[cv5]

And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?

Jocund.....that is what is known as the "mission field". Every heard of that term?

Now that you have......have at it. Perhaps a ministry to the Jews would be a useful vector for your preaching efforts?

 

[cv5]

You still haven't admitted to where your pre-trib rapture concept comes from. It isn't from Christian scripture and you know it.

Ahhhmmm....no. in actual fact, you DON'T know "it". I certainly do, as do many others here.

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[Mem]

Interesting.
I have understood the lamps being faith and the oil being that which feeds faith, (that being his word).
I try not to over think these things because it is my nature to do so.
What i do know is that Jesus comes at a time when they did not expect, and had to be awakened. (I like your explanation, possibly because they had died, and awaken to the judgement) and one group did not have what was necessary to enter the kingdom because they were not wise.
In all of the parables about the return of Jesus, He says that He returns at an unexpected time, amd rewards those that are doing what theu were supposed to be doung and punishes those who were up to other things.
Speculating about the time and signs of His return is not one of the things we are to be up to, and we are certainly not to be abusing those who refute such speculation and casting shade on their salvation ( as is done by one of the fellows in this very thread).
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Of coarse reading the entire chapter (Mathew 24) answers the question concerning dispensationalism. Jesus is very clear; there is no place or reason for such behavior and thought. If one bkthers to read His words altogether in context, this new temple and return to sacrifices is not plain not there. In fact tgis thinking gibes rise to the idea that some things must occur for Jesus to return and becomes a cause for abusive behavior.
Its late, i have worked all day so i hole my post makes sense.

When involved in contentious argument, participants often become confused if I interject with a concordant post. It made perfect sense to me. Temple builders' endeavor to resurrect their religion but have completely missed the temple that housed their god when He walked among them.

 

[cv5]

And by "the Jews" do you mean practitioners of modern antiChrist Talmudic Judaism?

Luk 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:26
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

===================================================================================

There is your starting point for your Jewish outreach ministry bro.

Of course you would actually have to READ the Old Testament first before launching your new preaching campaign.
Time is wasting bro. Saved Jewish souls and Bema Seat rewards are waiting for you to make some moves buddy.

 

[VCO]

Originally the Ark contained the two tablets, a pot of manna, and Aaron's rod that budded.

Be interesting to see if they are still there?

 

[VCO]

Ahhhmmm....no. in actual fact, you DON'T know "it". I certainly do, as do many others here.

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I still find it amazing how people like him, can refuse the to see the TRUTH. Even when it is printed in plain English.