"I believe ...."

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OldOrthodoxChristian

Banned
#1
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#1
Food for thought:

"I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him. But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal life to me and to all who believe in Christ. This is most certainly true". (1)

[page 34: The Charismatic RENEWAL Among Lutherans: A Pastoral and Theological Perspective. by Larry Christenson. Revised edition. Minneapolis, MN: International Lutheran Renewal Center.].

Notes.

1. Martin Luther, Small Catechism, in Tappert, Theodore G., editor and translator. The Book of Concord. Fortress Press, Philadelphia, PA, 1959, p. 345.
 
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Bloodwashed

Guest
#2
#2
"I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him. But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal life to me and to all who believe in Christ. This is most certainly true". (1)

Very good My Friend!!! I do believe you are becoming a Calvanist!!! It really can be no other way! God Bless!--Mark--
 
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OldOrthodoxChristian

Banned
#3
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#3
Bloodwashed;605318 said:
"I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him. But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal life to me and to all who believe in Christ. This is most certainly true". (1)

Very good My Friend!!! I do believe you are becoming a Calvanist!!! It really can be no other way! God Bless!--Mark--
Click to expand...

Lutherans aren't Calvinists! I was a Lutheran for many years. I no longer believe in Lutheranism.
I just find this interesting. Both Lutheranism and Eastern Orthodoxy speak against Pelagianism, the idea that we can save ourselves by our works without God's grace. Of course we need God's help, God's grace. Which comes first, to help us believe.
God is the One Who draws us to believe in Him. We do not believe in our own power, reason, and strength. But by God's mercy (Titus 3:5). It has nothing whatsoever to do with Calvinism or John Calvin or double predestination.
 
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Bloodwashed

Guest
#4
#4
I don't know, That statement looks pretty calvanistic to me! Blessings Mark!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
#5
lutherans believe in the T and U from the calvinist TULIP...but not the L or I or P as far as i know...
 
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OldOrthodoxChristian

Banned
#6
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#6
RachelBibleStudent;605544 said:
lutherans believe in the T and U from the calvinist TULIP...but not the L or I or P as far as i know...
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I don't believe in any lie of the TULIP heresy.
All Christians believe it is God Who saves us. We do not save ourselves.
Pelagianism is a heresy. So is Calvinism.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#7
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#7
OldOrthodoxChristian said:
Food for thought:

"I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him. But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal life to me and to all who believe in Christ. This is most certainly true". (1)

...

1. Martin Luther, Small Catechism, in Tappert, Theodore G., editor and translator. The Book of Concord. Fortress Press, Philadelphia, PA, 1959, p. 345.
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Very good indeed.
 
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WordGaurdian

Senior Member
#8
May 1, 2011
473
8
0
#8
OldOrthodoxChristian said:
Food for thought:

"I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him. But the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in true faith, just as he calls, gathers, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church he daily and abundantly forgives all my sins, and the sins of all believers, and on the last day he will raise me and all the dead and will grant eternal life to me and to all who believe in Christ. This is most certainly true". (1)

[page 34: The Charismatic RENEWAL Among Lutherans: A Pastoral and Theological Perspective. by Larry Christenson. Revised edition. Minneapolis, MN: International Lutheran Renewal Center.].

Notes.

1. Martin Luther, Small Catechism, in Tappert, Theodore G., editor and translator. The Book of Concord. Fortress Press, Philadelphia, PA, 1959, p. 345.
Click to expand...

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Here is another piece of food I think you should consider eating...

How do you hope or trust so much so that it becomes evidence for that which you don't yet see, if it is not true to your very being and heart?

If you believe in Christ or even in God... how can you do it, if it does not come out of yourself. Even if there is but a mere spark of hope from your side...there is hope. There is light. But if there is not even that... what does it make your faith other than being nothing in itself.

To give an example if I believe on God for a miracle...regardless of what it is, I have to have the hope of Him completing the miracle even before I ask it of Him. If I don't have that, then my faith would be counted useless and nothing will come from it. But by hoping even a little...I implore the principle of a mustard seed. Being even the smallest it can amount to much, because it is evident. And being evident God can multiply it by His Will and Power. If I don't have this hope as a start, this faith as a start. Then in itself I have nothing and there is no Light from my side. Therefore what will God multiply ? Darkness? Never. Therefore nothing will happen. But if there is but a flicker of faith or hope, God will multiply it by His choosing. And in so doing you would come to full faith. For why do you think do we need to preach the Gospel?

Is it not written For faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God?

If it was only that we would be chosen by nothing of our own accord then why at all give us the choice to accept Christ as saviour? No. For when we preach the Gospel we through a seed into the earth of that person. And in doing so there is hope in him. And as Paul wrote... Some sow, some water, but God gives the increase. That is the order.

So faith comes from God, yes. But the start of it must come from us, by accepting the seed which is being sowd to us and hope on our salvation.
 
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Bloodwashed

Guest
#9
#9
OldOrthodoxChristian said:
Lutherans aren't Calvinists! I was a Lutheran for many years. I no longer believe in Lutheranism.
I just find this interesting. Both Lutheranism and Eastern Orthodoxy speak against Pelagianism, the idea that we can save ourselves by our works without God's grace. Of course we need God's help, God's grace. Which comes first, to help us believe.
God is the One Who draws us to believe in Him. We do not believe in our own power, reason, and strength. But by God's mercy (Titus 3:5). It has nothing whatsoever to do with Calvinism or John Calvin or double predestination.
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I hope you know I love you Scott! I must say though, that perhaps that is a misconception. The statement ," I no longer believe in Lutheranism." Lutheranism has never saved any one. Being Baptist, or Full Gospel, or any of the Protestant Churchs, Your EOC, or Roman Catholic. Non of them saves! They may be help to you, & provide you with fellowship, [family], but they do not save. Only Christ saves! God Bless!!
PS. I only use denomanational terms, to explane in a nutshell the type of Christian I am. I consider myself to be Holy Catholic! I attend a non-denomo Fellowship.[We are truely non-denomo, independent, we are friends with other likeminded independent churchs]. I am fond of Catholic, Baptist, Luthern, Four Square, Assembly of God, & many others. I pray for all the Churchs in my city. I am going to visit The EOA church you advised me of, when I have a chance. Do they have open communion? Just don't want to step on anyones toes!
 
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OldOrthodoxChristian

Banned
#10
Nov 23, 2011
772
0
0
#10
Bloodwashed;606568 said:
I hope you know I love you Scott! I must say though, that perhaps that is a misconception. The statement ," I no longer believe in Lutheranism." Lutheranism has never saved any one. Being Baptist, or Full Gospel, or any of the Protestant Churchs, Your EOC, or Roman Catholic. Non of them saves! They may be help to you, & provide you with fellowship, [family], but they do not save. Only Christ saves! God Bless!!
PS. I only use denomanational terms, to explane in a nutshell the type of Christian I am. I consider myself to be Holy Catholic! I attend a non-denomo Fellowship.[We are truely non-denomo, independent, we are friends with other likeminded independent churchs]. I am fond of Catholic, Baptist, Luthern, Four Square, Assembly of God, & many others. I pray for all the Churchs in my city. I am going to visit The EOA church you advised me of, when I have a chance. Do they have open communion? Just don't want to step on anyones toes!
Click to expand...
Dear bloodwashed, in the EOC, you have to repent, believe in Christ, and be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, and be chrismated with the gift of the seal of the Holy Spirit, before you receive communion (holy Eucharist). You have to confess and fully believe the Orthodox Faith, which is stated in the unaltered original Creed of 381 AD. The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. None of the denominations, Lutheran, papist, Four Square, assembly of God, etc, Baptist, were founded by Christ. Christ founded only one Church, the Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. Unless you believe that, you are not going to understand or agree with with what I say. It is not arrogance on the Orthodox's part, but deep humility, to confess there is only one Church. This does not necessarily mean there are no true Christians outside the Orthodox Church, just that these may be the "other sheep" Christ talked about. Eventually, all Christians will be united in the same true Church, the One Orthodox Church. Yes. Only Christ saves. But only Holy Orthodoxy is the true and correct Faith of Christ. Without heresies. God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS Yes the Orthodox Church is the ark of salvation. The other Christian groups are not the Holy Ark, and teach some errors, which is why Christ did not found them. The true Church will not teach any errors (Matt. 16:18), whereas truth is not guaranteed to any individual, but to the Church as a whole as the One Body of Christ.

 
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