I hope....

[pickles]

I hope Im not throwing a wrench in the already troubled engine of debate here.

But, are not the law and commandments two different issues?
Im saying issues for lack of a better word, sorry.

But my understanding is that all are called to obey the commandments.
And the law was given as a covenent with Isreal?


I hope Im not going to start another great debate here, but for those who have studied this, can you please define or help bring understanding to this?

I would be greatful if this was clarified, thankyou.

God bless
pickles

 

[loveme1]

I consider the 10 Commandments are elaborated with the Law of Moses approx 600 or so? and summarized when Yahshua the Messiah said the two.



Each bringing understanding.

It is all about Love, Truth and Righteous Judgement.

I remember knowing i was doing wrong but excusing it away with things like "well the rest do it"

"you hurt me so i should hurt you".... selfish attitude....

All things that come to pass have been leading to the Harvest.

We are Blessed to know the Love and Mercy of Yahvah God shown through Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[pickles]

If I may explain why I am asking this.
First, I do have dislexia, so I dont always see every word clearly, I have always had to trust all understanding to Jesus.
But with all the debate, I have wondered if there is something I am missing or not seeing.
Quite honestly, I have never really understood what the debates are about, mostly because I have difficulty reading long posts.
What I have read in the scriptures is that the commandments were given to Isreal, but meant for all who love God.
But that the laws were given spacifically to Isreal as part of the covenent with God.
I have also read that any who live by any part of the law, they must then live by all the law unto death.
But scriptures also speaks to how that just like a man or woman is freed from marriage by death, so are we freed from the laws by Jesus dying on the cross, no longer held to the laws.
The scripture seemed pretty clear on this, Ill see if I can find it again and post it.
For we are now in Jesus.
But those that recieve Jesus, are called to obey the commandments out of love for God.
As Jesus said when giving the great commandment to love God Our Father, that on this (love) all the comandments are based.
I am speaking to God's love here, not worldly, as there is a differance.

Maby Ill never fully understand what all the debate is about, but I had hoped to have this clarified.
The one thing I do know is that God is the same , He does not change.
For I have always seen all scripture as true from its word to understanding, always remaining the same, no matter how much more understanding revieled, it is always the same truth.

So, please , I trully do want to understand why there is a debate, and if I am missing anything that is written.

Please if you can, avoid debate, simply post facts as given in scripture.
And I would really be greatful, so as to help me in reading your answers, keep them short as you possibly can.
I ask only, not requireing.

God bless
pickles

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Modern western misunderstanding has prevailed.

Torah means "fatherly instructions".

This includes all 10 "commandments" as well as the other "laws".

They are all fatherly instructions, not tyrannical laws.

To be "under the law" means to have made an instruction into a law, and thus condemn yourself by it.
Rather than just wisely following instruction for benefit, and responsibly discerning inevitable outcomes.

YHWH is a Father who gives instruction, not a tyrannical "lord" (Baal)
Everywhere KJV says "the LORD", it has replaced "YHWH", the breath of life, with "Baal", taskmaster.
And this therefore is what most christians think of YHWH.
Not 100% our fault, but 100% correctable.

He's "daddy", not "judge judy"

If we call them "laws" we express the idea that we fail to believe we can be forgiven.

The only "law" part of it is the re-visitation of sin upon us, which happens both now, every day we are alive, and later before the throne, except we repent, turn away from sin. What goes up, must come down.

When I stole $5000, years later, exactly $5000 was stolen from me.
When I spoke evil heart killing words to a girl, years later, those heart killing words were spoken to me.
When as a child, I stole a toy from my cousin, not long afterward, my toy was likewise stolen, by a different cousin.
People deny this reality in vain.

It's simple, if you stop sinning, it stops revisiting you. Then, the only sins you must bear, be affected by, are the unprovoked sins of others, and the way to deal with those is with a power that you have called "forgiveness". And when you forgive someone of their sin against you, you halt the re-visitation of that sin against them. Because a son of man has the power to forgive sin on earth, and what you loose in earth, is loosed in heaven.

Peace.

 

[Shilo]

The debate about the instructions aka the Law have been around for hundreds of years. The Lord said if you love me you will keep my instructions. From what I have been learning from a rabbi is the moral law is for everyone but other parts of the law say for the Israelite as well as for the sojourners these are the laws we are to keep according to him. I am still studying this so I do not have opinions on this findings yet but it does make me think he is on to something. Some examples are below of what he is talking about. So when you read an instruction in the old testament followed by things listed below then it is for all to follow. I know were are grafted in to Israel so I think we are to follow all of the 613 laws that we are able to do in our time, but this also is following the word as written more study needs to be done.

Leviticus 24:22 You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the LORD your God.”
Exodus 12:49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you
Numbers 9:14 "'An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must do so in accordance with its rules and regulations. You must have the same regulations for the alien and the native-born
Numbers 15:15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD

 

[pickles]

Thankyou wolf,
So the laws and commandments are the same?
Its just from what I read the commandments were first given, and then the covenent, but like I said, I do sometimes miss some words.
Ill try to read again tonight.
Please do not blame any teaching, as Im going by what I was able to read.
So if there is a mistake, it was mine.

I agree and do believe we are forgiven, as white a snow.
I guess what Im asking is what is the debate, for we obey now not for salvation, but because we love God Our Father.
But also, because of His love for us, so we will not end up being consumed by evil.
For one can see that we need to remain on the right path, so not to get lost.
Not because we are under condemnation.
The good news is that Jesus is in us, so all we need to do this is given, one can see this as well in scripture.
Scripture also showed where Jesus said, I do nothing on my own, for all comes from the Father above.
If any can show the whole scriptureI would be graetfull.
It often takes me a quite a while to locate spacific scripures.
But what Jesus said, teels me that all we do is given to us by God Our Father, and not of self.
I see Jesus saying this for two reasons, not just to say all we are given comes from God Our father, but also to state He was in agreement with God Our Father.
I wonder if this is the debate, instead of seeing that to recieve we need to be in agreement, ie obedience.

That the misunderstanding is to think it is of our own streangth we are saved?

Agreement , obedience with God , Jesus , is to bring life.
One might liken it to a perfect marraige, or one taking hold of that saving hand, in order to be saved from death.

God bless
pickles

 

[pickles]

Thankyou all for your answers, its late, and I want to get some reading in.
So much debate in other threads, one can lose sight if not staying grounded.
Again, thankyou.

God bless and good night
pickles

 

[WolfInOxHide]

So the laws and commandments are the same?

Well, the great commandment, and the 10 commandments, and the laws of moses are all obviously "different" things, though they all fit under each other, or spring forth from each other like a tree.
A tree that brings knowledge of good and evil, or a tree of life, depending on perspective.

Laws, for the purpose of condemnation (under the law)
or
Instructions, for the purpose of salvation (fulfillment of the instructions)

Before Christ, we were given the instructions for actions that seek to correct the heart.
After Christ, we are given a heart with the instructions that seeks to correct our actions.

If we embrace them as "laws" we condemn ourselves, and wrestle with a way out. (under the law, condemnation, eating fruit of the bad tree)
If we embrace them as things that express love, we change, and come out. (fulfillment of the law, salvation, eating fruit of the good tree)

It's difficult to "do not steal", if you seek to save yourself by not stealing.
It's easy to "do not steal", if you love your potential victim.

 

[pickles]

Thankyou wolf, you have helped to conferm the understanding already given, and clarified some of the confusion seen in many debates.

So another question now
In Hebrews, chapter eight and nine speaks to a new covennant being made, this is what I believe we are called to.
So, why is there a debate over the old? since this new covenant is given?

Thankyou to any who can help.

God bless
pickles