If I hurt you…(the crash)

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T

Tribe

Guest
#1
As you read this, please know that I AM a Christian. I simply have questions.
***
A man is speeding recklessly in his truck when he runs a stop sign and plows into a small car coming from his adjacent left side. He is fine, but the woman and child in the car he hit are badly injured. He quickly gets on his cell phone and reports the accident; within minutes paramedics arrive, and one of them even makes a comment on how if the man had not reacted so quickly, both of the passengers in the car would have died.

Because of the man’s quick reaction, he saved the woman and child…but a troubling fact is that if it had not been for HIS actions in the first place…the two people would have arrived home safely with no life-threatening injuries at all.
Should the woman and child THANK the man for SAVING them? Would they be thought of as being ungrateful if they did not, but rather responded in anger?

This story reminds me of how I feel about God many days.

Everyone says that Jesus was sent to save mankind from sin…but…who is responsible for this sin that we so desperately have to be saved from? Man is BORN with a powerful inclination to sin; from the moment we take our first breath we are sinners…did we ask for that? We are BORN with emotions and feelings that were are commanded not to express…or it is a sin. We are commanded not to love a world in which we are born and live in…the only world we know.

There is temptation at every corner, every day of our lives, but to give in to that temptation…is a sin.
Sometime…I feel that we are set up for failure from the very beginning. Everyone says that “God doesn’t want robots”, and that we have free will. But you can’t place a juicy stake in front of a starving man, and threaten him with eternal damnation if he even THINKS about eating it!

If you don’t want your child to play with a loaded gun…then you don’t keep a loaded gun in the house. It’s that simple.

If God so desperately doesn’t want us to sin then why does he even allow sin to be in our hearts?

It seem that Jesus (one-in-the-same with God) was sent to save us…from the car crash that HE created.

AGAIN...I am a Christian...I just have questions.
 
B

BrittanyJones

Guest
#2
Free will. We get to chose, and I don't know about you but I would rather someone love me by choice.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#3
Why does our society allow it so much access? Why do our churches allow it so much access? Who do we allow it so much access? Why do we knock on Trouble's door and then cry when he answers?
 
T

Tribe

Guest
#4
Thanks for the response Brittany.
What is the point of free will…when you will suffer for eternity if you don’t choose what God wants you to choose? It would seem then, that free will is pointless. Many days I would rather have not been given the choice at all.
I wonder…is there still free will when you get to Heaven? Will your free will get you kicked out of Heaven if you do not choose what you are told to choose?
 
T

Tribe

Guest
#5
I would like to remind everyone that my questions are not to offend anyone. But if I have something on my heart how else would I get answers if I didn't ask questions?
 
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Muffyn

Guest
#6
Hi there.
Rest assured that your question isn't an offensive one, and many, many people have asked that question before. It's quite an interesting question too, as varying schools of theology (some theologians argue that there is no free will) offer different answers to your question.

I'll try to answer your question as best I can, however.

In order to understand free will, you first need to understand the context in which Man was created and what he was designed for.

To ask why God allowed free will when He knew sin was going to happen is a flawed understanding as we try to reason from Man's understanding of his circumstances (anthrolopology), which is fundamentally wrong, since everything was designed from God's perspective. (theology).

"The chief end of Man is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever". To understand our purpose in life, we first need to recognize that Man was created for worship.

It's pretty impossible to ask a robot to worship - because worship requires love, adoration, an understanding of God's faithfulness - all which would be absent in a creation that simply followed instructions without the ability to think for himself/herself.

That's why Man's chief end is to WORSHIP and ENJOY Him forever - and not a dog or a cat or a monkey. We were created in the image of.God, designed for worship, which requires free will. To expect something to love without being able to choose seems rather... contradictory.

Did God know ahead of time that His created beings would sin against Him? Sure He did. He knew from even before He formed Man from the dust of the Earth that Man would turn away, mock His Name, and spit in His face - and also why He sent Jesus to die for us.

The Bible is a story that speaks entirely about the attributes of God (and not about Man) - and in all the stories that we read, whether in the Old or New Testament, we come to realize that God is faithful - and totally worthy of our worship.

I could go on, but I'll save that for later, as I have a horrid tendency.of writing horrendously long diatribes...
I hope this answers your question!:)

Don't be afraid to ask questions, I've always believed that asking questions are a good platform by which we understand God better (with the exception of those who ask without actually wanting to know the answer, but who only try to sow discord).

Ok, enough, I've rambled long enough :p

Have a blessed week!
 

shemaiah

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2011
2,233
30
48
29
#7
Good of you to ask... Yes we are all born with a sinful nature and ONLY WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT can we be FREE OF OUR SINFUL WAYS! When adam was placed in the garden it was His choice to eat or not to eat the fruit, where there is no law there is no sin, there was only one law in the garden, do not eat the fruit! Jesus died on the cross to remove the curse of the law and for us to be made righteous free from all sin (rom. 6) We are free from sin the only reason we tend to sin is because the enemy trys so much to make it presentable, when we all know it only hurts us now and forever. We have been given two choices, to live with God forever in love, peace and joy or to live in sin and live in pain, hurt and sadness. If you choose God, ask Him to lead you because no one else can. Narrow is the way because their is only one way. If I haven't answered your question, I will be happy to try again, just send me a message,I would love to help!
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
The answer to your question is simple. When a genuine born-again Christian experiences physical death and goes to heaven, they leave their old sinful nature behind them and only their new nature remains. That's why, in heaven, there is no longer any desire to sin ever again and so no one will.

How Can We Be Free in Heaven and Not Sin? - Come Reason Ministries

Thanks for the response Brittany.
What is the point of free will…when you will suffer for eternity if you don’t choose what God wants you to choose? It would seem then, that free will is pointless. Many days I would rather have not been given the choice at all.
I wonder…is there still free will when you get to Heaven? Will your free will get you kicked out of Heaven if you do not choose what you are told to choose?
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#9
We have a loving father who created us to be his family. He did know ahead of time that Satan would turn his children against him. He gave us the choice to believe him or not and everyone of us has given into pride and thought we knew better. He loved us so much that he made away for us to come back to him. He did not like the fall of man but he will use all things for our good. In Genesis we are told cursed is the ground for man's sake. We are given trials and difficulties in this life that brake our pride and help us see how much we need him. Our way is not the best way and each time we are tempted to do something that is not right their is a consequence for that action. When this age is over and the new one starts all things are made new. We will all believe that he knows best. There will be know more sin because each of us have gone through the heartache and pain that sin causes and none of us want that again. We tell our children not to do something but they think the know better and end up getting hurt. Then they come to us and we hold and comfort them. We also hope that the learn from what happened so it does not happen again.
When we look at the natural beauty in the earth the sites, sounds and smells this is all a show of his love for us. This shows his beauty and wisdom and we should not question him but only believe. Jesus came to show us GOD's love for us that even with us being sinners Christ died for us to bring us back to GOD. Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free. We are all blind when we walk in our own way and not the way of rightousness. We are only truely free when we know him as father, King , Lord and savior. We will live in a new age that is under his LAW not for restriction but for the freedom from all the pain this life has taught us. We will then give him the honnor, love and respect due him because then we will know with out a doubt Father knows best.


Because of the man’s quick reaction, he saved the woman and child…but a troubling fact is that if it had not been for HIS actions in the first place…the two people would have arrived home safely with no life-threatening injuries at all.
Should the woman and child THANK the man for SAVING them? Would they be thought of as being ungrateful if they did not, but rather responded in anger?


The man's sin was the cause of what happened. Had he followed the LAW he would not have put himself or others at risk. This shows you do not know how far reaching each sin is. He did not continue in sin because he then did what he knew was right. We do not know why the other people were even there it could be innocent or maybe they were not where they were supposed to be. We are told that everyday is a gift and so yes, they should be thankful that he did not continue in sin and got the help needed. If they respond in anger what kind of anger? Do they use it to help others or do they sit and let it over come them? anger like many things can be good if directed in the right way.
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#10
The point is Man started the *CRASH*.The moment they ate from that tree....
 
T

Tribe

Guest
#11

Shemaiah, thank you for your time.

In some ways you answered my questions, but in some ways you didn’t. My original intentions of this post this was not so much to tackle the subject of free will, but explore the situation described in the story…a man saving the lives of people who were only in danger because HE put them there in the first place.

Okay, Jesus came to save Man from sin, but why?

If God knows what we are going to do before we are even born…that means that he KNEW that Adam would be disobedient before He even created him. God KNEW that Adam would eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil…God KNEW what the consequences of those actions would be. Yet despite knowing that Adam’s actions would bring sin and death to the world…He still created Adam…He still created the tree…KNOWING what was going to happen before it did.

Do you see where I am coming from?

My words are not meant to cause any sort of discord…I realize that they are borderline blasphemous.

It’s just that many days I look at my life, and I look at the world…and I wish that I had never been born into it. Man is responsible for the condition of the world. But if God knew from the very beginning that man would be disobedient and that man would bring so much darkness…then why would He even create man?
 
T

Tribe

Guest
#12
Thanks for the replie Tobby17.
 
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Tribe

Guest
#13
Thank you for your words of wisedom Shilo.
 
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shekaniah

Guest
#14
God tells us in His word....

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; Proverbs 3:5

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14

18 So we do not focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen; for what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
2 Cor 4:18

 
S

Sarah88

Guest
#15
If God knows what we are going to do before we are even born…that means that he KNEW that Adam would be disobedient before He even created him. God KNEW that Adam would eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil…God KNEW what the consequences of those actions would be. Yet despite knowing that Adam’s actions would bring sin and death to the world…He still created Adam…He still created the tree…KNOWING what was going to happen before it did.
I used to ask those very questions. What I believe now is that, even though He knew what would happen, He did it out of love. The thing is neither you nor I truly know what heaven is like. He has created such wonderful things that we are truly going to be in awe there in His presence. It doesn't matter how much we suffer or go through here compared to living eternally with Him. He wanted to give us a chance to enjoy all that. Maybe we don't appreciate it now because our eyes only see this world (the here and now), but I firmly believe that once we're there with Him we're going to thank Him for everything.

I encourage you to pray to Him to show you His love. I prayed and He has shown me His unconditional love through various circumstances and that has changed my life and how I view everything. I hope this helped. God bless you!
 
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BlueAngel

Guest
#16
God does command us to be perfect, but no one is.
But God does count TRYING to do whats right.
If we're trying, that's what he wants us to do.
Anyone here heard th quote :
"It's the thought that counts."
?