I'm a new-comer and I have some questions.

marginalerror · Jan 9, 2012

Hello, my name is Amanda, or you can call me Marginal. Most people here do. I'm a new-comer to this site, and Christianity in a way. I'm reading the Bible, and doing some soul searching, for lack of a better term. My immediate family, meaning my mother, father and sister, are all saved Christians.

I use the term saved to mean someone who is certain of their belief and faith in Jesus, and has commited their life to following His teachings. I'm not sure what the exact definition is, but that's my interpretation.

So my entire family is saved, and when I was little, I totally bought it. However, when I got older, I was less inclined to follow along, and searched for my own path.

Okay, blah blah blah, fast foward 11 years, and here I am. So I'm starting from scratch and giving Christianity (And Jesus, I guess) a second try. So I need some help understanding some Bible verses, that may seem pretty basic to a lot of people, but it's Greek to me.

Okay, um, Matthew 5: 3 and 20.

Verse 3: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
-I'm not sure what he means here when he says poor in spirit. If someone could elaborate on that, that would be helpful.

Verse 20: "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
-That is super confusing to me, because I don't really get how the comparison of one persons' righteousness to a Pharasees' or scribes. Thoughts?

Hey, if you've made it through all of this AND you'd like to respond, you should give yourself a cookie. Or a pat on the back, at least.

Thank you!

-Amanda (marginalerror)

AnandaHya · Jan 9, 2012

marginalerror said:

LOL a Cookie

I can see we'll get along fine.

Hey Abiding do you have some milk?

ok concerning the verses.

Verse 3: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

it means that though people are poor in material wealth and things of this world they are rich and blessed in the Spirit of God. it is not that they are poor in spirit but that the poor are blessed in Spirit. At least that is how I read it.

Verse 20: "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

this one is slightly more complicated to explain. we could launch into a discussion of who the scribes and Pharisees are and believed, etc. but the basic is they thought they were righteous outwardly they followed all the laws but they did not follow the SPIRIT of the law.

Jesus showed that it was not good enough to just NOT commit adultery (the outward act) but you should even harness your thoughts to the obedience of Christ and not even Lust after another man's wife or woman's husband. that would be a righteousness surpassing the scribes and Pharisees. However even that would not get you into Heaven. The only way you get into Heaven is by the imputed righteiousness of Jesus Christ.

Do you know about imputed righteousness and propiation?

oh Welcome to CC

marginalerror · Jan 9, 2012

I don't know about imputed righteousness or propiation, sorry.

And thanks for responding! I have a friend who is a wonderful person and Christian, but I can't exactly call him at all hours of the day (or night) when I have a question. Lol.

So, Jesus is saying that obeying the laws is good, but you can't just act it out, you have to actually mentally and spiritually mean what you do? Basically?

AnandaHya · Jan 9, 2012

marginalerror said:

yeah basically

I can give you some sermons about it. they say it better then I do. lol but if you want to discuss it more just message me

got to go do chores

others will pipe in soon I'm sure

though a word of caution you might want to pray about it all and use discernment and check with the Bible, your family or trusted pastor, and God with some of the responses.

We have some....unique individuals on CC....

I like Paris Reidhead's " So Great a Salvation" sermons:

Paris Reidhead Audio Sermons

if you don't have the time this one by Phil Johnson is shorter

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oibL_KZdz4M[/video]

and Spurgeon is always worth listening to

http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols7-9/chs373.pdf

http://media.sermonindex.net/1/SID1685.mp3

sorry for the flood of information but you can take your time to work through it or someone might be able to explain it concisely for you.

personally I like having lots of information.

marginalerror · Jan 9, 2012

Thank you! I'll take some time to journal this and digest it all.

AnandaHya · Jan 9, 2012

I found this by John Wesley on those verses interesting....

11. It may be, indeed, that some of the Scribes and Pharisees endeavoured to keep all the commandments, and consequently were, as touching the righteousness of the law, that is, according to the letter of it, blameless. But still the righteousness of a Christian exceeds all this righteousness of a Scribe or Pharisee, by fulfilling the spirit as well as the letter of the law; by inward as well as outward obedience. In this, in the spirituality of it, it admits of no comparison. This is the point which our Lord has so largely proved, in the whole tenor of this discourse. Their righteousness was external only: Christian righteousness is in the inner man. The Pharisee "cleansed the outside of the cup and the platter;" the Christian is clean within. The Pharisee laboured to present God with a good life; the Christian with a holy heart. The one shook off the leaves, perhaps the fruits, of sin; the other "lays the axe to the root," as not being content with the outward form of godliness, how exact soever it be, unless the life, the Spirit, the power of God unto salvation, be felt in the inmost soul.

Thus, to do no harm, to do good, to attend the ordinances of God (the righteousness of a Pharisee,) are all external; whereas, on the contrary, poverty of spirit, mourning, meekness, hunger and thirst after righteousness, the love of our neighbour, and purity of heart, (the righteousness of a Christian,) are all internal. And even peace-making (or doing good,) and suffering for righteousness' sake, stand entitled to the blessings annexed to them, only as they imply these inward dispositions, as they spring from, exercise, and confirm them. So that whereas the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees was external only, it may be said in some sense that the righteousness of a Christian is internal only: All his actions and sufferings being as nothing in themselves, being estimated before God only by the tempers from which they spring.

you can read the whole sermon on this link:

Global Ministries - John Wesley, Sermon 25b, Upon Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount, 5

CanadaNZ · Jan 9, 2012

marginalerror said:

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

Who are the poor in spirit? We as humans are often very prideful, take
the 2010 Vancouver Olympics theme song, “I Believe”. One part of the song says
"I believe in the power that comes, From a world brought together as one, I
believe together we'll fly, I believe in the power of you and I”. We are so often
focused on what we can do, what we can achieve, but being poor in spirit means
that we have come to realize that we CAN’T do it on our own, that we are truly
poor without our Saviour, Jesus. The poor in spirit are those who are humble.

MaggieMye · Jan 9, 2012

Sweetie, you are anything BUT "marginal"!! You are made in the image of the Most High God! You are NOT an error, but made for a SPECIFIC purpose and made with a plan for your life! You were created to be in relationship with the Lord Jesus, with Him as your Savior, the One who loves you beyond what you can imagine!

I will call you "Unique" or "Treasured" or even "Just Curious", but I will NOT call you "Marginal".

Maggie

And I do, quite often, take the roll of "the other mother' for those that need it! ;-)

CanadaNZ · Jan 9, 2012

MaggieMye said:

Sweetie, you are anything BUT "marginal"!! You are made in the image of the Most High God! You are NOT an error, but made for a SPECIFIC purpose and made with a plan for your life! You were created to be in relationship with the Lord Jesus, with Him as your Savior, the One who loves you beyond what you can imagine!

I will call you "Unique" or "Treasured" or even "Just Curious", but I will NOT call you "Marginal".

Maggie

And I do, quite often, take the roll of "the other mother' for those that need it! ;-)

Very well said

Laodicea · Jan 9, 2012

This is a good story of someone who is poor in spirit and someone who is not
Luke 18:9-14
(9) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
(10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
(11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
(14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The righteousness of the Pharisees was a righteousness of works, they would teach but not do. Notice the previous verse in Matthew
Matthew 5:19-20
(19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 23:25-26
(25) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
(26) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We need the righteousness of Christ
Isaiah 61:10
(10) I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Forest · Jan 10, 2012

marginalerror said:

The poor in spirit are those people who are humble, understanding the extent of their unwortheness. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart.Ps 51:17. Jesus said that unless our righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will not enter the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of heaven (meaning the church. the church that Christ set up when he was on earth is called by many different names in the scriptures, such as, The bride, the new Jerusalem, the little flock, the remnant, the few, the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God.) Matt 16:12, Jesus said beware of the doctrine of the pharisees and of the Sadducees. Luke 20:46, Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greedings in the market, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts. In other words beware of PRIDE. I hope this helps, if not please consult me again. I pray that you will find a place of comfort in the scriptures.

gotime · Jan 10, 2012

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

If you read all 7 blessings it becomes more clear.

The first is indicating that those who realise that they are poor in Spiritual things are blessed. why?

Because we have to realise this to come to God and thus gain the Kingdom of God.

once we realise our lack in the spirit then we:

Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

We mourn over our condition because we are cut to the heart at how sinful we really are. Yet it is a blessing because those who mourn over their condition will be comforted by God.

Then because we are comforted and receive pardon for our condition we become:

Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

We become meek. we are not prideful because we know that without Jesus we are poor in Spirit and must die for our sins. and now because we realise the gift of God of eternal life and inheriting the earth we want to be more like Him so we:

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

So we hunger and thirst to reflect his righteousness. to be more and more like Him and he promises that if we do this we shall be filled with the Holy Spirit which makes us like Him. then we become:

Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

We become merciful to others even those who hate us, because we understand that we were like them and would still be like them if it were not for Jesus. and we pray for them that they may know Jesus also. we have forgiveness for them and in turn we remain in forgiveness of Him who saved us. and so like him we become merciful and as he changes us we are made:

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

We are made pure in heart by his indwelling in us through the Holy Spirit and thus we can more clearly see His Character, His holiness, His righteousness. and thus we are no longer poor in Spirit but we see God as He is. then we become:

Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

We become peacemakers, we don't speak harshly. we don't judge or condemn others. but rather we have a Gospel of reconciliation between Man and their Creator and also Man and Man. and thus we are called Children of God. This will bring:

Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

This will bring Persecution because God through the Holy Spirit has made you righteous with His righteousness. and people of Darkness hate light.

Jesus is explaining the process of how he saves us and changes us. Hope that helps a little. there is more that Jesus says to bring this out more but that is the basics of it.

Now as for your other question.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This question is one of the Law itself. See David tells us that the Commandments of God are righteousness.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

so how can our righteousness exceed that of the Jewish leaders?

Paul says it this way:

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Paul said that the Jews tried to keep the law by their woks in other words they tried to do it their selves. and they did not manage to do it.

Yet he says of the Gentiles that even though they did not try to do it they ended up keeping the Law because they did it by having Faith in Jesus that He could cause them to keep His law. in other words change came from God not their own works.

The bible is clear that those who love God will obey His law 100%. but we can never do it by our own works. we will fail if we try. but if we accept by Faith Jesus into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Then God himself will cause us to obey all of His Law. thus it is by Faith and not of works.

Again hope this helps

God bless you in your search for Him. there is much joy in following the Lord.

shekaniah · Jan 10, 2012

My life did not change until I asked God for wisdom and understanding with a sincere heart.

God's word is spiritually discerned.

1 Corithians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Colossians 2:2-3
My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
I pray that God opens the eyes of your heart, In Jesus Name, Amen
Because when He does...you will see the world from a whole new veiw.
God bless and know that He loves you!!!

WordGaurdian · Jan 10, 2012

marginalerror said:

Hello Amanda

Good questions.
Let's tackle the easy one first. You're rightiousness should exceed that of the Pharisees. Why the Pharisees? Well they were seen by the common folk as the absolute elite in searching for the secrets of the Law and keeping to it. If you would recall Paul was a pharisee. It was an achievement one made in becoming a pharisee. Kind of like we have doctors in University. They had pharisees of the LAW. Except that the Pharsisee was not just about Knowledge, but also about how they lived out that knowledge. Hence they were seen as a revered group amongst the jews. Then you would have some amongst them that would even take it further and teach others, kind of like we would have professors and these would be RABI. It was considered a tremendous honour to be a RABI amongst the Jews, and it is still today.

Now the instruction of Jesus is this that our lifestyle should be of such a nature that we can be seen by others as exceeding the rightiousness of the Pharisees. When are you rightious? When your actions with which you help others aid them, yourself and all the people around you. Let's take a sin for example. If you commit a sin, regardless of what type of sin it is, it has in affect that you are being unrightious towards somebody or yourself. Let's take lying. When you lie to someone, the effect is that you can cause a stumbling block for somebody watching you as a christian. You slowly destroy certain parts of your life and you create an opening for more sin. So in a way you are not doing what is best or right for you, nor for the people that you are lying to, nor for the people that is in authority above you for they again need to aid you to get out of the mess because you lied. So in a fact you need to be rightious and think further than you would normally do and think of the effect of all your actions to its extreme. And it doesn't just have to be sin. For example :

When I was a younger man at the age of 20 or so, I did not take care to think of how to establish myself in a community or as a caretaker of my wife one day. I dreamed as any young man of a wife. But I hardly thought of what I needed to do at that age to establish a nice career and so forth so that when I finally get a wife I would be ready. But I was earnest of getting a wife even at that age. Being foolish and unrightious I didn't take into account what was expected of me if I were to have a wife, what would I need to have done and in place. Being rightious is us, taking in expectance of what is excpeted of us in being the best, doing it and doing what is best for all people concerned. In not preparing for my wife at that age was not a sin, but since I asked for a wife at that age, and not being ready for her, made me unrightious. If I didn't ask for a wife, I wouldn't be considered unrightious at that stage, maybe still foolish, but not unrightious for my expectance was merely limited to what I needed at that stage. So unrightiousness can come from your expectance and what you don't do even though you expect it. For example again minor: A couple of people went to church to pray for rain, dressed in their best. One of the youngsters of a couple dressed herself in a raincoat. All of them wanted to expect God to give rain. But only the little girl was rightious, for she was ready to receive it and prepared for it. For if we ask God something, God wants us to have faith that He will answer. And that He would answer positively. Even though He might say no, He still wish us to have faith that He will say yes. So if we ask God something it is rightious for us to expect that God will respond and unrightious that God will not respond. Not unrightious that God will say no, but think about it. If you were a child and were to ask your parents something. Sometimes you expect some of their answers would be no, but still you ask in prepare yourself for their yes. But to those questions which you are going to be an absolute no, no matter what, you don't even bother to ask. Because you know how your parents would respond. You would for instance not ask you parents to go and do something wrong. But you might ask them if you can go out to the movies. The answer can be either positive or negative. But when you ask them, in your mind you already started to plan what to do when they say yes. And that is what God wants from us. We won't ask God to help us sin. That is just not done. But some questions you know God is going to say yes, and some are borderline. And when they are borderline God doesn't want you to act as if you are going to get a no, but plan the event like you would do with your parents. Having faith in that which you ask. And that faith then becomes your rightiousness. For if you plan your entire life out this way with faith. God will bless it this way, because of the faith and the rightiousness that is within your life.

And then in this, as you are doing right now, seeking first the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness, in the rightiousness of God you will find the way to the Kingdom of God. For Jesus is the WAY, the Truth and the Life. And in your actions you must be defined as a son or in your case daughter of God. In the way you think. And in the way you speak. And in this rightiousness of doing things not because of the Law. But doing things of the Law out of Love for obeying God's commandments is a way of showing affection towards God. Just like doing things for your Parents is a way of showing affection towards them. And when you do things as a youth, the people with standing at that moment don't refer to you by your own name, but by the name of your parents. Whether it be achievements or the opposite.

So in like wise, being children of the most high our life must display the Character of God, being loving, caring and rightious and forgiving. And in this God again will be gloryfied by our actions and that in turn would make the praise and worship of our lips so much more relevant. For if a child that does everything his parents asks of him praise his parents, his praise has conviction and power amongst those that are around him, and to those that are around his parents. However, if a child never obeys his parents happens to praise them one day. His parents would be weary of the praise wondering what the child wants, not entirely excepting the praise. So in effect our rightiousness enhance our praise to God. And in this again God bless us.

Poor of spirit
In a nutshell it is about humbleness. If you uplift yourself above your place, God will place you back on the place you are. However if you humble yourself God will lift you up. the greek of the word poor is also related to beggar. God doesn't want to know how good you think you are. For it was for this very reason that satan was thrown from heaven. So God knows your standing. Don't say I glad I'm not that guy or this girl. Be glad that you have the grace to be where you are, for facing the same circuimstances how do you know you wouldn't fail even worse than that person. Rather ask that God might aid that person. Whether it be a sinner or in your eyes a saint. For many so called saints are sinners and many so called sinners are saints. Not all. But God sees everything. For example there was a women that was a prostitute in the time of Jesus. It was she that washed Jesus's feet with her hair. At first sight all were appalled that Jesus would even consider talking to her. But Jesus didn't see a sinner. He saw all the circuimstances and given grace that she would be a saint. And yet there were pharisees that according to all were sinless, yet in the eyes of Jesus knowing everything of that person's life, He knew that person wasn't worth the title. For Jesus even knew what happened in secret and what some of the pharisees did without the knowledge of the folk. For the people judge by what they saw, but their judgement was flawed in that that they didn't see everything and didn't know. Yet Jesus does. For God knows what you are doing every single day and second.

Grandpa · Jan 10, 2012

Laodicea said:

This is a good story of someone who is poor in spirit and someone who is not
Luke 18:9-14
(9) And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
(10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
(11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
(14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The righteousness of the Pharisees was a righteousness of works, they would teach but not do. Notice the previous verse in Matthew
Matthew 5:19-20
(19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 23:25-26
(25) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
(26) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We need the righteousness of Christ
Isaiah 61:10
(10) I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Good Post Laodicea. This was just along the lines of what I was thinking. Brilliant!!

marginalerror · Jan 10, 2012

MaggieMye said:

Sweetie, you are anything BUT "marginal"!! You are made in the image of the Most High God! You are NOT an error, but made for a SPECIFIC purpose and made with a plan for your life! You were created to be in relationship with the Lord Jesus, with Him as your Savior, the One who loves you beyond what you can imagine!

I will call you "Unique" or "Treasured" or even "Just Curious", but I will NOT call you "Marginal".

Maggie

And I do, quite often, take the roll of "the other mother' for those that need it! ;-)

Aw, well shucks! Thank you very much for this message. It is encouraging.

marginalerror · Jan 10, 2012

Thanks for all these answers guys! Everyone here is really nice.

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