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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#221
Feb 12, 2009
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#221
throughfaith said:
Matt 6
6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
“The kingdom of God,” then, is closely associated with a moral and spiritual righteousness
This is an interesting study . I take different words to have different meanings . God is not Heaven nor is heaven God . So thus the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are different.
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Yes I understand you see it as different but we can come back to that. but remember there is a reason why Matthew uses the word heaven and not the divine name. But lets not get side tracked.


So lets look at the kingdom of God, Jesus used this term extensively about his message:

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel Mark 1:15


“The kingdom of God has come upon you.”- Matthew 12:28

“For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” – Luke 17:21

“After his suffering, he [Jesus] presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 1:3


So are the above what you believe taught about the kingdom...Jesus Himself uses Kingdom of God pay close attention to Luke 17:21 and Acts 1:3



No you keep telling us that Jesus is proclaiming his kingdom to the Jews only. I will remind you waht you have said. You stated this on the 23rd Feb, 2021 in the thread --Jesus and Paul -two different gospels? post #365

(throughfaith said) the ' Gospel ' means good tidings / news . Our good news is that Jesus has died for the sins of the world . And was raised for our Justification. That He reconciled the world to himself , not counting their trespasses against them . None of that was the good news prior to the cross. Thier good news was ' the kingdom ' .
1) The Kingdom
2 ) christ crucified/ resurrection for our sins.
= 2 separate good news .
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So is Jesus referring to Jews only when talking about the kingdom of God? Yet what do we see in Acts 1:3 or is that still to the jewish people?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#222
Aug 4, 2020
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#222
phil36 said:
Yes I understand you see it as different but we can come back to that. but remember there is a reason why Matthew uses the word heaven and not the divine name. But lets not get side tracked.


So lets look at the kingdom of God, Jesus used this term extensively about his message:

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel Mark 1:15


“The kingdom of God has come upon you.”- Matthew 12:28

“For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” – Luke 17:21

“After his suffering, he [Jesus] presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 1:3


So are the above what you believe taught about the kingdom...Jesus Himself uses Kingdom of God pay close attention to Luke 17:21 and Acts 1:3



No you keep telling us that Jesus is proclaiming his kingdom to the Jews only. I will remind you waht you have said. You stated this on the 23rd Feb, 2021 in the thread --Jesus and Paul -two different gospels? post #365




So is Jesus referring to Jews only when talking about the kingdom of God? Yet what do we see in Acts 1:3 or is that still to the jewish people?
Click to expand...
Acts 1 regardless is referring to the apostles.
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3TO WHOM also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being SEEN OF THEM forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#223
Feb 12, 2009
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#223
throughfaith said:
Acts 1 regardless is referring to the apostles.
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3TO WHOM also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being SEEN OF THEM forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Click to expand...
Hi throughfaith,


I'll leave you what the whole NT teaches.


“The kingdom of God has come upon you.”- Matthew 12:28

“For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” – Luke 17:21

“After his suffering, he [Jesus] presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 1:3


it goes further Paul teaches the Kingdom of God just like Jesus:


“We must go through many tribulations to enter the kingdom of God.” – Acts 14:22

“I have gone [among you] preaching the kingdom of God” – Acts 20:25

“For the kingdom of God is…righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” – Romans 14:17

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” – 1 Cor. 4:20

“Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 19:8

“He [Paul] witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” – Acts 28:23

“He [Paul] proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!” – Acts 28:31

“Now I [Paul] know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again.” – Acts 29:25

but you also have others:

“But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” – Acts 8:12


Before the cross in Jesus' teaching and after the cross.


Anyhow my friend. If you want to believe that Jesus taught another gospel than Paul then that is up to you. I think the evidence in scripture makes your position untenable.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#224
Aug 4, 2020
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#224
phil36 said:
Hi throughfaith,


I'll leave you what the whole NT teaches.


“The kingdom of God has come upon you.”- Matthew 12:28

“For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” – Luke 17:21

“After his suffering, he [Jesus] presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 1:3


it goes further Paul teaches the Kingdom of God just like Jesus:


“We must go through many tribulations to enter the kingdom of God.” – Acts 14:22

“I have gone [among you] preaching the kingdom of God” – Acts 20:25

“For the kingdom of God is…righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” – Romans 14:17

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.” – 1 Cor. 4:20

“Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.” – Acts 19:8

“He [Paul] witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” – Acts 28:23

“He [Paul] proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!” – Acts 28:31

“Now I [Paul] know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again.” – Acts 29:25

but you also have others:

“But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” – Acts 8:12


Before the cross in Jesus' teaching and after the cross.


Anyhow my friend. If you want to believe that Jesus taught another gospel than Paul then that is up to you. I think the evidence in scripture makes your position untenable.
Click to expand...
Paul never uses the term “the kingdom of heaven,” “the kingdom of God” shows up five times in the book of Acts connected with his ministry, and he uses it nine times in his epistles.
the Scriptures themselves define “the kingdom of God.” 1. “The kingdom of God” is entered by the New Birth (John 3:3, 5). 2. You are to enter it with the simple faith of a child (Mark 10:14–15). 3. It is connected with God’s righteousness and is to be sought before physical necessities (Matt. 6:31–33). 4. Sinners go into it before the self-righteous (Matt. 21:31). 5. It was taken from the Jews as a nation and given to the Gentiles (Matt. 21:43 Acts 28:23–31). 6. It is preached after the time of John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). 7. “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21). 8. It is “not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” (Rom. 14:17). 9. And here, in 1 Corinthians 4:20, it is associated with the power of God

Now the kingdom of heaven is another subject . Merge the two together you will not have a clue .
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#225
Feb 12, 2009
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#225
throughfaith said:
Paul never uses the term “the kingdom of heaven,” “the kingdom of God” shows up five times in the book of Acts connected with his ministry, and he uses it nine times in his epistles.
the Scriptures themselves define “the kingdom of God.” 1. “The kingdom of God” is entered by the New Birth (John 3:3, 5). 2. You are to enter it with the simple faith of a child (Mark 10:14–15). 3. It is connected with God’s righteousness and is to be sought before physical necessities (Matt. 6:31–33). 4. Sinners go into it before the self-righteous (Matt. 21:31). 5. It was taken from the Jews as a nation and given to the Gentiles (Matt. 21:43 Acts 28:23–31). 6. It is preached after the time of John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). 7. “The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21). 8. It is “not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” (Rom. 14:17). 9. And here, in 1 Corinthians 4:20, it is associated with the power of God

Now the kingdom of heaven is another subject . Merge the two together you will not have a clue .
Click to expand...

You must think that Jesus teaches two gospels to the Jews then. But you have a serious problem because both Paul and Jesus taught/teach the kingdom of God see above post #223 (Before the cross in Jesus' teaching and after the cross in both Jesus and Paul - so Paul and Jesus agree with what each other taught to the Jews and Gentiles).

Anyhow my friend. Enjoy the rest of your day. (y)
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#226
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#226
phil36 said:
You must think that Jesus teaches two gospels to the Jews then. But you have a serious problem because both Paul and Jesus taught/teach the kingdom of God see above post #223 (Before the cross in Jesus' teaching and after the cross in both Jesus and Paul - so Paul and Jesus agree with what each other taught to the Jews and Gentiles).

Anyhow my friend. Enjoy the rest of your day. (y)
Click to expand...
'Kingdom of heaven ' have a study on it .In the bible, not endless commentaries .
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#227
Jan 12, 2019
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#227
throughfaith said:
'Kingdom of heaven ' have a study on it .In the bible, not endless commentaries .
Click to expand...
His argument that

Since Paul preached the Kingdom of God
and Jesus also preached the Kingdom of God

Therefore Jesus and Paul must be preaching the same gospel

reminds me of this nice counter argument by Grace Ambassadors by Justin Johnson https://graceambassadors.com/god/do-we-worship-the-same-god

I preached that my wife had long hair and wearing dresses.
Someone else also preached his wife had long hair and wearing dresses.

Therefore we must be married to the same woman.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#228
Aug 4, 2020
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#228
Live4Him said:
No.

Instead, I'm suggesting that BOTH Jews AND GENTILES lived in these towns, and that was no problem whatsoever for Jesus because he regularly ministered to and preached to BOTH GROUPS in the same exact manner even as I've been regularly documenting for you both here and elsewhere on this forum.

Got it?
Click to expand...
It should be really obvious given Peter and the disciples reaction in Acts 10 to Cornelius conversion and what he says here
Acts 10
28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
 
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