Instruments are bad?

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M

MusicalDisciple

Guest
#1
I've grown up Christian, and all my life I've been taught that instrumental music in the church is a bad thing. I can't find any verses that say anything about instruments being bad... In fact, King David, who was after God's heart, played the harp and wrote many psalms to be accompanied by instruments. So why is instrumental music labeled evil?
 

ronnie2796

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
734
2
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#3
Oh wow,..Music without instruments,...What kind of church do you go to? How do you feel about the subject? Have you prayed about it?
 
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P

prodigal

Guest
#4
I've grown up Christian, and all my life I've been taught that instrumental music in the church is a bad thing. I can't find any verses that say anything about instruments being bad... In fact, King David, who was after God's heart, played the harp and wrote many psalms to be accompanied by instruments. So why is instrumental music labeled evil?
There are some denominations that dont agree with instruments, no matter what scriptures you show, it just goes round in circles. I suggest that if the Lord hasn't convicted you of such then there are better things that you could set your mind on. ( i consider you a christian brother if you love the lord and seek to be like him, whatever music you listen to) Blessings.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#5
I've grown up Christian, and all my life I've been taught that instrumental music in the church is a bad thing. I can't find any verses that say anything about instruments being bad... In fact, King David, who was after God's heart, played the harp and wrote many psalms to be accompanied by instruments. So why is instrumental music labeled evil?

because some people think that unless something is specifically stated as "OK" in the New Testament, it is evil.
even things that the scriptures specifically say are "good" - like singing and playing music for the Lord!

that thinking is wrong. "
it is for freedom we are free" -- Galatians 5:1

it's wrong too to let our freedom become a stumbling block for others - don't look to offend others whose faith is weak, but don't let them steal your joy.

the Jews, after the temple was destroyed, no longer used instruments in their synagogues - to differentiate from temple worship. the early organized church patterned their meetings after the Jews. but we are not without a temple, for we are His temple, and as music and singing and joyful dancing was acceptable in worship in the former temple, which was a shadow of things to come, music, and singing, and dancing and rejoicing in our hearts is acceptable too -- we worship in Spirit and Truth - and doesn't a glad Spirit make a joyful melody?

don't let anyone judge you for your rejoicing, if it is in the Lord. but don't judge other's devotion if it too, is for God. our praise is for the Lord, not for each other
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#6
I've grown up Christian, and all my life I've been taught that instrumental music in the church is a bad thing. I can't find any verses that say anything about instruments being bad... In fact, King David, who was after God's heart, played the harp and wrote many psalms to be accompanied by instruments. So why is instrumental music labeled evil?
Instruments and even instrumental music are very much okay, even therapeutic in my case. I don't know why they would be considered evil.
 
M

MusicalDisciple

Guest
#7
My denomination just calls themselves "Church of Christ", but I think so do other denominations, so it isn't very specific. I do agree that it isn't an extremely important matter, I was just wondering.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
There's two main factions within the Church of Christ denomination and only the smallest faction chose a cappela. The denomination itself, as a whole, also falsely asserts that unless a person has undergone water immersion baptism they are unable to be saved. This is a false teaching. A person certainly can be saved and experience the new spiritual birth without being immersed in water during baptism. I'll be happy to debate anyone on that point who says otherwise.

Other than those two misnomers, the Church of Christ fits into mainstream evangelical Christianity as part of the "Stone-Campbell Movement" which is the common term for an American reform effort that began in the early 19th century in both the United States and Scotland.

But you want to talk about musical instruments. Church of Christ will argue that musical instruments were banned from the early church on account of their worldly nature and that instruments in general were banned throughout the first century. They'll argue that in Judaism, musical instruments were banned after the destruction of the temple as a way of expressing disapproval over the temple being destroyed and cite Werner and say the primitive Christian community held the same view.

The truth is, as McKinnon explains, there is no actual emperical support (such as the Bible, early rabbinical writings, contemporaneous literature, etc...) that instruments were banned in the synagogue after the destruction of the temple and it's well documented that music with instruments (three main groups: strings, wind and percussion, also see Psalm 150) was an integral part of Hebrew culture and had its place also in religious life. For example, read 1 Ch. 15:16–24 which contains a detailed account of the organization by David of the levitical choir and orchestra.

Of course your "religious" faction of the Church of Christ will argue that they also engaged in animal sacrifice and various civic/ceremonial activities the Law of Moses required in the old covenant that we don't do anymore with Christ's sacrifice and the institution of a new covenant. But that's an obvious red herring. Bearing false witness was outlawed in the old testament, for example, so is the prohibition against bearing false witness no longer valid for today? Obviously it IS for God's morality is universal for all people for all times. Using musical instruments to facilitate the purposes of music such as worship, teaching, etc... does not violate God's universal morality: only their own "religious" conviction. I think you get the point.

They are correct; however, that some early church fathers (not all) did consciously strive toward the simple declaration of Scripture maintaining a music free from musical instruments.

But as Norden points out, singing hymns as spontaneous praise to deities in public assembly with musical instruments had been a common practice in Jewish and the pagan communities long before the New Testament era and some Pauline communities were musically oriented (see 1 Cor 14:15, 26) with members encouraged to teach and admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16). Elsewhere in the New Testament, and in the writings of the apostolic fathers, the allusion to hymns or songs and the discovery of hymnic fragments back to the third century provide windows to the hymns or songs used in other Christian communities during the first two centuries and they may very well have used musical instruments. It's non-sequitur to say the didn't given the use of musical instruments in the culture during that period both amongst Jews and non-Jews.

You're not going to change them, however. If you try, you'll be labeled a false teacher who has “gone liberal.” So, either accept their error which in this case is a non-essential meaning you can stay if you like or move on to a church that uses musical instruments. The choice is your own.


My denomination just calls themselves "Church of Christ", but I think so do other denominations, so it isn't very specific. I do agree that it isn't an extremely important matter, I was just wondering.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#9
So, did this church remove the psalms from their bibles?

1Praise the Lord.[SUP]a[/SUP]

Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

6Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
#10
So, did this church remove the psalms from their bibles?

1Praise the Lord.[SUP]a[/SUP]

Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

6Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.
No, they haven't removed the psalms. They just claim that instrumental music was mentioned in the NT, so we cannot "add" them. I have discussed this with some of them, but they will not listen. I have told them that instruments were used in the OT, Paul mentions instruments (but not in worship:)), and Revelation mentions, "the harps" of heaven - But apparently we are in a instrument free zone in time between instrumental times:p. But as I am a member, I try not to rock the boat too much. I try to explain that we can choose to be a cappella, but should not judge those that aren't. It is a message that is usually not received well. I don't want to start using instruments in worship service, but to stop the nonsensical condemning of others that use them.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
#11
There's two main factions within the Church of Christ denomination and only the smallest faction chose a cappela. The denomination itself, as a whole, also falsely asserts that unless a person has undergone water immersion baptism they are unable to be saved. This is a false teaching. A person certainly can be saved and experience the new spiritual birth without being immersed in water during baptism. I'll be happy to debate anyone on that point who says otherwise.

Other than those two misnomers, the Church of Christ fits into mainstream evangelical Christianity as part of the "Stone-Campbell Movement" which is the common term for an American reform effort that began in the early 19th century in both the United States and Scotland.

But you want to talk about musical instruments. Church of Christ will argue that musical instruments were banned from the early church on account of their worldly nature and that instruments in general were banned throughout the first century. They'll argue that in Judaism, musical instruments were banned after the destruction of the temple as a way of expressing disapproval over the temple being destroyed and cite Werner and say the primitive Christian community held the same view.

The truth is, as McKinnon explains, there is no actual emperical support (such as the Bible, early rabbinical writings, contemporaneous literature, etc...) that instruments were banned in the synagogue after the destruction of the temple and it's well documented that music with instruments (three main groups: strings, wind and percussion, also see Psalm 150) was an integral part of Hebrew culture and had its place also in religious life. For example, read 1 Ch. 15:16–24 which contains a detailed account of the organization by David of the levitical choir and orchestra.

Of course your "religious" faction of the Church of Christ will argue that they also engaged in animal sacrifice and various civic/ceremonial activities the Law of Moses required in the old covenant that we don't do anymore with Christ's sacrifice and the institution of a new covenant. But that's an obvious red herring. Bearing false witness was outlawed in the old testament, for example, so is the prohibition against bearing false witness no longer valid for today? Obviously it IS for God's morality is universal for all people for all times. Using musical instruments to facilitate the purposes of music such as worship, teaching, etc... does not violate God's universal morality: only their own "religious" conviction. I think you get the point.

They are correct; however, that some early church fathers (not all) did consciously strive toward the simple declaration of Scripture maintaining a music free from musical instruments.

But as Norden points out, singing hymns as spontaneous praise to deities in public assembly with musical instruments had been a common practice in Jewish and the pagan communities long before the New Testament era and some Pauline communities were musically oriented (see 1 Cor 14:15, 26) with members encouraged to teach and admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16). Elsewhere in the New Testament, and in the writings of the apostolic fathers, the allusion to hymns or songs and the discovery of hymnic fragments back to the third century provide windows to the hymns or songs used in other Christian communities during the first two centuries and they may very well have used musical instruments. It's non-sequitur to say the didn't given the use of musical instruments in the culture during that period both amongst Jews and non-Jews.

You're not going to change them, however. If you try, you'll be labeled a false teacher who has “gone liberal.” So, either accept their error which in this case is a non-essential meaning you can stay if you like or move on to a church that uses musical instruments. The choice is your own.
As a member, that is not the typical argument that I hear. Those that believe this and have argued their case with me just say that they are not mentioned in the NT.

As for water baptism, I agree that it is not necessary for salvation, but I do believe that we should be baptized in water, as the example was given to us, both by Jesus and the Apostles (not by their own baptism (except Paul), but by them baptizing other in water) . I believe it is an viewable expression of our hope to be baptized with the saving baptism of the Holy Spirit. I also believe that water baptism is encouraging to others that have been considering accepting Jesus into their lives. But then again, so should the change they see in us after we have been baptized in the Spirit.
 
R

Raine

Guest
#12
Sounds like God has already revealed the truth to you. :)

Grew up in a worship band and can say that music with instruments assists with my connection with the Lord. All things sings songs to the Lord, even the rocks and hills, so why not instruments? :). I believe God is amazingly fun and enjoys what we can do with music and instruments to glorify him.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#13
God created music. And blessed us with the instruments, and some people with the abilities, to use them. Who are we to take Gods gifts and talents from others in the name of flawed religious logic?
 
G

GirlForGod828

Guest
#14
This is simply a doctrinal differance. Some denominations, church of Christ in specific, don't believe in instrumental music during the worship service. As a musican and a salvationist I personally think that is not right and not Biblical. Psalm 150 says to prasie God with musical instruments. As for you it is your choice what you believe, as it is with all of the doctines of different denominations.