Is God is unjust if he lets Christians into great tribulation?

[peterT]

Is God is unjust if he lets Christians into great tribulation?

The pre-tribulation believing says, God is unjust if he lets Christians go through the great tribulation.

Bible story.

Jacob and seventy souls go to see Joseph in Egypt to avoid the famine in the land.

And they increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty.

Then there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

And the king did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens.

And he made the children of Israel to serve with rigour and made their lives bitter with cruel bondage. And tried to kill the mail children,

But their CRY came up unto God by reason of the bondage, so God sent Moses

But it got worse not better, and more evil came upon Gods people and they had to do much more work and were beaten. 400 years of slavery

Then in the process of being delved, before they get to the Promised Land, God made them walk around the desert for 40 years to purge out the disobedient and the mummer’s and the complainers, and only the people under 40 years old got to entered the Promised Land.

How does this Bible story fit into the pre-tribulation believer’s accusation that God is unjust if he lets Christians suffer?

Wops, it doesn’t

 

[Abiding]

If going through the tribulation made God unjust then He already would be.
Look at the history of the church....there has always been tribulation.
Human candles and lion toys come to mind along with the millions who
have been sheep led to the slaughter. Read Hebrews 11:36-40 for OT ref.

 

[Red33]

Is God is unjust if he lets Christians into great tribulation?

The pre-tribulation believing says, God is unjust if he lets Christians go through the great tribulation.

Bible story.

Jacob and seventy souls go to see Joseph in Egypt to avoid the famine in the land.

And they increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty.

Then there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

And the king did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens.

And he made the children of Israel to serve with rigour and made their lives bitter with cruel bondage. And tried to kill the mail children,

But their CRY came up unto God by reason of the bondage, so God sent Moses

But it got worse not better, and more evil came upon Gods people and they had to do much more work and were beaten. 400 years of slavery

Then in the process of being delved, before they get to the Promised Land, God made them walk around the desert for 40 years to purge out the disobedient and the mummer’s and the complainers, and only the people under 40 years old got to entered the Promised Land.

How does this Bible story fit into the pre-tribulation believer’s accusation that God is unjust if he lets Christians suffer?

Wops, it doesn’t

It has nothing to do with suffering. It has to do with the church, God precious possession, who has been purchased by the blood of Christ, who has been made to be the body and bride of Christ, who has had the wrath of God lifted, whose sins have been put away and will not come into condemnation or in any judgment with the world. That makes God's justice a very good thing for the church because he is rewarding His own rigyhteousness in the lives of every member of the body of Christ.

 

[peterT]

It has nothing to do with suffering. It has to do with the church, God precious possession, who has been purchased by the blood of Christ, who has been made to be the body and bride of Christ, who has had the wrath of God lifted, whose sins have been put away and will not come into condemnation or in any judgment with the world. That makes God's justice a very good thing for the church because he is rewarding His own rigyhteousness in the lives of every member of the body of Christ.

Tell that to all the disciples who died and suffered for their faith, and tell that to the 1000s upon 1000s of Christians who have suffered and died for their faith in the last 2000 years, the body of Christ.

You are just making that up, it’s not in the bible.

 

[mpaper345]

During the great tribulation the world is together as one,and thinks they will prosper,as they have gotten rid of all religions,and have a world where man is god himself,with the beast being top dog.

Their last stop to get rid of all people who are contrary to their kingdom is Israel,which when they attack Israel,then God will come back and put them down.

The great tribulation is not for the world.

God will give the world 7 years to have their way and go against the truth,which when the beast appears claiming to be God,he has power to continue for three and one half years,which he can only have that power if it were given to him by God.

That means God will not interfere during the 7 years,but will allow all people who do not love Him to follow the beast system.

The wrath of God does not get poured out on the world until after the 7 years is over.

The great tribulation is not for the world,and the wrath of God does not get poured out on the world until after the great tribulation.

The tribulation is for the saints,they are the ones who will be persecuted by the beast and the world,because the world is saying it is all about man with no religion,and go against the Christians who say there is a God and acknowledge Jesus.

The man of sin casts the truth to the ground and stamps upon it.

The beast blasphemes God and His tabernacle.

If the saints are not on earth when the man of sin claims to be God,then how could he cast the truth to the ground,if there is no truth to cast to the ground,and why would he blaspheme against God and His tabernacle,if the saints are not on earth.

The only way for the truth to be on earth is if the saints are on the earth,for that is the only way the truth can be represented on earth.

Why would the man of sin make his speech telling the world that it is all about man,and his technology and devices can help him,and speak out against God and His tabernacle,saying it is false and not beneficial,if there are no saints on earth that is a threat to their kingdom and could not influence the world.

If there are no saints on earth,then the man of sin would not go against God and His tabernacle,by saying it is false,and telling the world not to be influenced by it,because the saints and the truth would not be a threat to them.

You only speak out against a threat if it is there,and can influence people,if the threat is not there,there is no need to speak out against it,but the man of sin speaks out against Christianity,telling the world to not be influenced by it,because it is of no use and false,and man can solve his own problems.

But the man of sin speaks out against the truth,and casts the truth to the ground and stamps upon it,and that is because God is allowing him to have his way for three and one half years,to deceive everyone who loves not the truth.

The saints will be on earth,because God is allowing the beast to go against the truth.

The saints will be on earth during the tribulation,because the tribulation is persecution of the saints.

Also the Bible says the beast makes war against the saints and overcomes them.
The little horn makes war against the saints and prevails against them,and the saints shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years.
The last king destroys the mighty and holy people.

If some people say God will not allow the world to persecute the saints,were the saints delivered from persecution in the past,and Jesus said if you live for Him you will suffer persecution,and Jesus said do not worry about what they can do to the body but can do no more.

The wrath of God does not get poured out on the world during the tribulation,for people who think the tribulation is punishment for the world,because God is allowing the world to have their way for 7 years,and the world is not going to persecute each other,seeing they all come together as one.

That means the tribulation is not for the world.

That means the tribulation is for the saints.

Jesus said during the tribulation it will be persecution like never before and never will be again,which He is addressing the saints.

 

[shroom2]

Is God is unjust if he lets Christians into great tribulation?

The pre-tribulation believing says, God is unjust if he lets Christians go through the great tribulation.

Who said that? I believe in the pre-trib rapture and have never thought that.

You're making it up.

 

[shroom2]

...The wrath of God does not get poured out on the world during the tribulation,for people who think the tribulation is punishment for the world,because God is allowing the world to have their way for 7 years,and the world is not going to persecute each other,seeing they all come together as one.

That means the tribulation is not for the world.

That means the tribulation is for the saints.

Jesus said during the tribulation it will be persecution like never before and never will be again,which He is addressing the saints.

He was not addressing Christians. The Christian church started on the day of pentecost and will end with the rapture.

 

[Red33]

Tell that to all the disciples who died and suffered for their faith, and tell that to the 1000s upon 1000s of Christians who have suffered and died for their faith in the last 2000 years, the body of Christ.

You are just making that up, it’s not in the bible.

I will say it again, none of them, no matter what they have suffered because of Christ (and they will reign with Christ), have ever passed into any great tribulation that is coming upon the earth and no believer ever will because we are one body and members one of another and have not been appointed unto it. You want to pass through the great tribulation and be a part of what happens, go out and live in sin and lose your salvation (like some believe you can) and you will be sure to pass through it, if your still alive when it comes upon the earth.

Take your small little faith and go tell someone that really gives a hoot that they are making things up.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Who said that? I believe in the pre-trib rapture and have never thought that.

You're making it up.

I don't recall any of us "pre-tribers" saying such a thing either.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

"We" would mean all believers right?

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316

 

[peterT]

I will say it again, none of them, no matter what they have suffered because of Christ (and they will reign with Christ), have ever passed into any great tribulation .

Yes, that’s because the great tribulation has not yet started.

To think that the great tribulation has a monopoly on pain, suffering, death and persecution, is foolish nonsense.

Persecution, pain, suffering to your death for one’s faith has been around for a long time.

Persecution, pain, suffering to your death was around 1000s of years ago.

In the great tribulation Persecution, pain, suffering to your death will be nothing new to the church.

They have already experienced pain, suffering to your death for 1000s of years. Evil men have all already invented every kind of pain you could suffer to your death years ago.

To suffer for your faith unto death in the great tribulation will be known more that are forefathers have surfed to death for their faith.

Persecution, pain, suffering to your death, was the same yesterday, and will be the same tomorrow.

when Jesus said, tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world no, nor ever shall be, he was meaning such evil on a worldwide scale bigger than ever before.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

After all, you can only suffer so much before your death comes. All this is nothing new to church.

You want to pass through the great tribulation and be a part of what happens, go out and live in sin and lose your salvation (like some believe you can) and you will be sure to pass through it, if your still alive when it comes upon the earth.

Take your small little faith and go tell someone that really gives a hoot that they are making things up.

Now for that temper of yours, you have to do something about it, it doesn’t suit you.

 

[peterT]

Who said that? I believe in the pre-trib rapture and have never thought that.

You're making it up.

That’s because you haven’t been listing, and if you listen you might even spot it on this post.

I have been listing to it for 30 years.

“God is not cruel; he would not put us through the tribulation”

“God is a loving God and he would not put us through such a thing”

The tribulation is for the wicked.

Blar Blar Blar

 

[loveme1]

If the most high is for you, then who can be against you?

Why do so many want a rapture? Have any of us done anything to show our faith? When we our out of comfort zone will be a real test of Faith.

Glorify Yahweh Almighty God until death, show him the love we have received, Yeshua our Saviour dying for our sins...

Witness of the most High Yahweh God and how he sent his son Yeshua our Saviour during the times of trouble is what we should be preparing to do.


Yahweh Almighty God is letting the good and bad crop grow until the harvest.

Why so many think they deserve a rapture, even though the Bible does not support this.

The second death is what we will be protected from.

 

[peterT]

Who said that? I believe in the pre-trib rapture and have never thought that.

You're making it up.

You must be making that up shroom2 or “You’re not listening” because someone has already said it on this post.

 

[peterT]

It has nothing to do with suffering. It has to do with the church, God precious possession, who has been purchased by the blood of Christ, who has been made to be the body and bride of Christ, who has had the wrath of God lifted, whose sins have been put away and will not come into condemnation or in any judgment with the world. That makes God's justice a very good thing for the church because he is rewarding His own rigyhteousness in the lives of every member of the body of Christ.

God is just, even if he lets us go through the great tribulation Red33.

He has not appointed us unto wrath. According to my Bible, the wrath comes upon the wicked after the tribulation.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

There we are in heaven, stand on the sea of glass, after getting the victory over the beast, then the wrath is poured out on the people that take the mark and them which worshipped his image.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[peterT]

If the most high is for you, then who can be against you?

Why do so many want a rapture? Have any of us done anything to show our faith? When we our out of comfort zone will be a real test of Faith.

Glorify Yahweh Almighty God until death, show him the love we have received, Yeshua our Saviour dying for our sins...

Witness of the most High Yahweh God and how he sent his son Yeshua our Saviour during the times of trouble is what we should be preparing to do.


Yahweh Almighty God is letting the good and bad crop grow until the harvest.

Why so many think they deserve a rapture, even though the Bible does not support this.

The second death is what we will be protected from.

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?

The two end time witnesses are resurrected from the dead at the last trumpet, in the clouds, after they hear the voice saying come up hither.

There might not be a word rapture but there is a gathering in the air in the clouds at the last trumpet after hearing the voice of the archangel.

 

[resurrection33]

Is God is unjust if he lets Christians into great tribulation?

The pre-tribulation believing says, God is unjust if he lets Christians go through the great tribulation.

Bible story.

Jacob and seventy souls go to see Joseph in Egypt to avoid the famine in the land.

And they increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty.

Then there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

And the king did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens.

And he made the children of Israel to serve with rigour and made their lives bitter with cruel bondage. And tried to kill the mail children,

But their CRY came up unto God by reason of the bondage, so God sent Moses

But it got worse not better, and more evil came upon Gods people and they had to do much more work and were beaten. 400 years of slavery

Then in the process of being delved, before they get to the Promised Land, God made them walk around the desert for 40 years to purge out the disobedient and the mummer’s and the complainers, and only the people under 40 years old got to entered the Promised Land.

How does this Bible story fit into the pre-tribulation believer’s accusation that God is unjust if he lets Christians suffer?

Wops, it doesn’t

When we behave selfishly, we get into trouble. Selfishness is sin. The Lord allows us to experience some of this trouble to teach us not to behave selfishly.

 

[RedTent]

It seems to me that God created us, our world and how it is to operate. The idea of us judging Him seems pretty foolish. It would be like building an airplane and have it tell you how it is to fly.

We do know that God has great love and kindness for the people who want to be a part of His kingdom. He is also a God of justice, so sin leads to death. Seems to me that when we get caught up in a world that turns on God we have to take the consequences along with others. We have been warned that we are headed for a time of tribulation.

Good idea to watch who you vote for!

 

[loveme1]

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

If there is no rapture/resurrection what is this then?

The two end time witnesses are resurrected from the dead at the last trumpet, in the clouds, after they hear the voice saying come up hither.

There might not be a word rapture but there is a gathering in the air in the clouds at the last trumpet after hearing the voice of the archangel.

I was referring to pre trib............. All will come to pass..........