Is there a Hell???

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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#1
There seems to be a real resurgence of universalism amongst those professing Christ, or, something leaning to universalism.

Many believe (personally, I would say foolishly), that because God is love, he will send people to hell. But, at some point He will save all men!

So to recap:

1) Is there a hell

2) If there is a hell, who does the sending, God or man?


Blessings

Phil
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#2
There seems to be a real resurgence of universalism amongst those professing Christ, or, something leaning to universalism.

Many believe (personally, I would say foolishly), that because God is love, he will send people to hell. But, at some point He will save all men!

So to recap:

1) Is there a hell

2) If there is a hell, who does the sending, God or man?


Blessings

Phil
I think hell is the natural consequence of doing evil things. For example, if you murder someone, you will spend many years in prison.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
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#3
I think hell is the natural consequence of doing evil things. For example, if you murder someone, you will spend many years in prison.
So let guess what you are saying? You believe that sin is hell right here right now? But I am refering to the eschaton, the end time.

Will unbelievers spend eternity in Hell, whilst those in Christ will spend eternity worshipping him.

hope you cab clear this up Ress?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#4
i think your question is too simplistic. its like saying hey what color is the sky? and the elementary teacher expects the answer "Blue" from everyone.

I told her I thought it was pink with purple clouds, she told me I was wrong. I was only 7 at the time and you weren't suppose to talk back to the teacher. If I had the words I have now then, I would have told her that yes the sky is that color during my favorite time of the day: when the sun was setting.

There is a hell and God sends people not men.

Now the questions remains: who gets sent to hell and what gets you sent to hell?

Denial of the Holy Spirit is the ONLY law that Jesus says is unpardonable in the Bible. If you find another one, I'm listening.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#5
i think your question is too simplistic. its like saying hey what color is the sky? and the elementary teacher expects the answer "Blue" from everyone.

I told her I thought it was pink with purple clouds, she told me I was wrong. I was only 7 at the time and you weren't suppose to talk back to the teacher. If I had the words I have now then, I would have told her that yes the sky is that color during my favorite time of the day: when the sun was setting.

There is a hell and God sends people not men.

Now the questions remains: who and what gets you sent to hell?

Denial of the Holy Spirit is the ONLY law that Jesus says is unpardonable in the Bible. If you find another one, I'm listening.

Hi AnandaHya,

From Ress's answer you can actual see that the question is not elemantary nor simplistic.

As for sending people to Hell, Haven't those who have rejected Christ already chosen hell?

Its not simplistic as answering 'Blue'
 
Feb 24, 2011
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#6
Some people have different takes on what Hell is and how long you go there. The most popular answer would obviously be "it's hot" and "forever." But there are only a few passages regarding Hell in the Bible, and most do not exactly explain it. Some philosophers have suggested that Hell is "any separation from God," meaning Heaven would be nearness to God. I'm not saying this is true, I have no idea. And some people believe that God condemns you, others believe He wants to save everyone and would send no one to Hell if humans would just accept His spirit. Also, people have argued that souls do not go to Hell forever, that at times spirits can ascend if they finally accept Christ. That, too, is unknown.
 
Jan 21, 2011
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#7
This is going to be a wall of text. Apologies.

1) Is there a hell
There are multiple experiences, states, and places which some Christians have mistakenly conflated together under the name "hell." The answer then is yes, but it's not unqualified.

Since we're discussing this in terms of universalism, I'd like to start with the fire and judgment of 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. Even those who are saved may undergo purgation and escape only as if through flames. Universalists understand that fire has a purpose - it is a test, a correction, a stripping away of that which is unworthy. We find this principle elsewhere:

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Discipline means that God is treating you as his child. Is this the sort of unpleasantness which is associated with hell?

Let's take the more problematic words in Matthew 25: the unrighteous will be sent into eternal punishment. Sounds pretty conclusive. The root of the word here translated as "eternal" is aion. In Matthew 13:39-40 and 49, though, Jesus refers to the end of an aion, so it's not entirely clear to a universalist that this is eternal. Ages, another common translation, have ends. With Jesus, one just ended.

In any case, I'm looking at this passage because of "punishment." The word and its associated verb, as far as I can tell, are only used four times in scripture. Here, of course. In 1 John 4:18 it refers to the fear of punishment, saying that the one who fears is not perfected in love. In Acts 4, it refers to legal punishment. Its use in 2 Peter is fascinating:

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly ; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter ; and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds ), then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.
They are already in hell, kept under punishment by God, but this is their state until the day of judgment. The word Jesus used in Matthew is the current state of some people right now, who have yet to experience the day of judgment. Is this word used elsewhere in Greek? LSJ has some interesting entries:
τὰ σέμν᾽ ἔπη κόλαζ᾽ ἐκείνους = "use your proud words in reproving them"
"a drastic method of checking the growth of the almond-tree"
It can even be used to refer to the disciplining of an athlete. So is this conscious torture? Read in context, it seems again like the purposeful chastening of a God trying to keep his children in line, sometimes in spite of themselves. Sometimes, very painfully.

What happens if a person does not accept Jesus? As it says in John 3:36, the wrath of God abides on him. Forever, right? John uses the verb for abiding 33 times in his gospel. In John 2:12, Jesus stayed for 3 days. He stayed with the Samaritans for 2 days. In John 9:41, when he says their sin remains, does he mean that it remains forever? No, he means it remains until they repent. There is no indication here that this wrath of God abides forever. In fact, as the word is often used, we could understand this to mean that the wrath of God is abiding until the previous clause is fulfilled.

Is there hell? Yes. Salvation means one can enter into heaven. It does not mean it will be a pleasant process. Fortunately:

For his anger lasts only a moment,
but his favor lasts a lifetime;
weeping may stay for the night,
but rejoicing comes in the morning.
This is not a full case from the universalist perspective, of course, but this is already long enough.
 
S

Shwagga

Guest
#8
There seems to be a real resurgence of universalism amongst those professing Christ, or, something leaning to universalism.

Many believe (personally, I would say foolishly), that because God is love, he will send people to hell. But, at some point He will save all men!

So to recap:

1) Is there a hell

2) If there is a hell, who does the sending, God or man?


Blessings

Phil
Hi Phil, I haven't spoken to you in a while, hope you are doing well.

According to what I believe the Bible teaches there is a hell. Although it was ultimately prepared for the devil and his angels (Mat. 25:41), the unbelievers will go there as well, for eternity.

God is the judge so God does send them to hell, however, the unbeliever who goes to hell would live a lifestyle that rejects God's grace and way of living, constantly.

While it is God's desire that everyone is saved (1 Ti. 2:4) and God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Eze. 18:34, 33:11) He is just and will punish sin.

Hope you are well, God bless you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
1) Is there a hell
Scripture speaks of a "hell" Or "lake of fire" prepaired for Satan and the angelic beings who followed him. Scripture also tells us on the day of judgment, Men will also be cast into this place. there will be "weeping and nashing of teath"

What is it. We do not know. I know to spend an eternity knowing there is a God. He sent his son, And offered you and eternity with him, and you have missed out, would be hell in itself.

2) If there is a hell, who does the sending, God or man?
God does the sending. But mankind does the chosing to go their. Scripture states all mankind has sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is not a man woman or child who ever lived, or who will ever live who does not deserve this "eternal death" on their own merit, or by helping God by doing works.

God is willing that non should parish, but all should have "eternal life" (vs eternal death) and sent his son who paid the debt in full for all sin. Because of this, he is offering his gift of eternal life to all who "call on the name of the Lord" and trust him to give what he promised (eternal life) not based on their own good deeds, but based on his son's death. So all who attend the great white throne judgment, having rejected the good gift of God, will be judged according to their works. and will be found to have "fallen short" of the mark required to have eternal life (because they rejected Christ, all they have left is their merit) and because of their decision, they will spend eternity separated from God (the second death)

So God is the one who sends them their. but they are the ones who chose to go their by rejecting Christ, or trying to make it on their own merit.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#10
2) If there is a hell, who does the sending, God or man?
God (as a result of man's sin).

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41)

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matthew 7:23)