Jhn 17:12 "Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost ***?EXCEPT?*** the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#1
Nov 20, 2018
18,508
7,266
113
#1
That was the NKJV. "Except" is not the correct translation.

The KJV has it correct:

Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, ***BUT*** the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 673x
The KJV translates Strong's G3361 in the following manner: not (486x), no (44x), that not (21x), God forbid (with G1096) (15x), lest (14x), neither (7x), no man (with G5100) (6x), but (3x), none (3x), not translated (51x), miscellaneous (23x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. no, not lest
Many wrongly assume that there is ONE LIST of the "saved disciples", and one of the entries just "did not make it".
This is not true. There are TWO LISTS. One list of the "forever saved", and one list of the "never saved".

And so it is......
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#2
Jul 18, 2017
24,600
13,017
113
#2
cv5 said:
This is not true. There are TWO LISTS. One list of the "forever saved", and one list of the "never saved".
Click to expand...
There is no second list. Out of the twelve apostles, only one was the Son of Perdition who betrayed Christ. At the same time the Lord deliberately chose him with the full knowledge of his betrayal, so that Scripture might be fulfilled, and so that Christ would be crucified.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#3
Nov 20, 2018
18,508
7,266
113
#3
Nehemiah6 said:
There is no second list. Out of the twelve apostles, only one was the Son of Perdition who betrayed Christ. At the same time the Lord deliberately chose him with the full knowledge of his betrayal, so that Scripture might be fulfilled, and so that Christ would be crucified.
Click to expand...
You are missing the point.

Judas was not, nor will ever be, among the saved in the book of life.

In other words, it is impossible to lose salvation, because it is impossible for Christ lose any of His.

The error is in thinking that Judas was once saved, then "fell away". Not true.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#4
Jul 18, 2017
24,600
13,017
113
#4
cv5 said:
The error is in thinking that Judas was once saved, then "fell away". Not true.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about Judas being saved? If he is called "a devil" and "the son of perdition" by Christ that automatically says that he was damned to begin with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.