Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet

[jaybird88]

Lord said to the rich young ruler to sell everything was to reveal the man's breaking of the first commandment. He thought he had kept all the commandments from his youth. People trying to live under the law will be given Moses 2.0 to reveal their need of a Savior. His idol was money...his treasure was money..his life was money...his trust was his money

To use this scripture to say we shouldn't have money or abundance from the Lord..is taking the scripture out of context.

Treasure in heaven is where we put our trust in God as our source for everything. To say treasure of jewels on the toilet seat is just nonsense and slandering. There is no jeweled toilet seat..This is just another example of biting each other and ripping each other apart.

it's shameful and as the body of Christ we need to grow up!!

To use this scripture to say we shouldn't have money or abundance from the Lord..is taking the scripture out of context.

No one said we should not have any money. We use it for our needs. There is a big difference between needs and wants. Spiritual “wants" are great, and there is nothing wrong with earthly “wants” as well. But if your only reason for being spiritual is to possess the earthly “wants” then you got a problem. Does this make sense?


We should be happy to except any gift of abundance from our Lord, but seeking such abundance should not be why we seek the Lord in the first place. This is exactly what these preachers are teaching, seek the Lord and get paid. Jesus never taught this, the only riches Jesus asked people to seek were in heaven.



if a random stranger gave me a lavish estate worth millions of dollars with exotic sports cars in the garage, and all the rest, and you told me it was a blessing of abundance from our Lord, please explain to me how such a gift of possessions would help my spiritual growth. IMO such items would be a distraction from my free will to worship.

many in these churches are being lead astray by wealth and possessions (serve the Lord and get paid!) , it is very shameful and people need to wake up!!

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree that if your only reason for being spiritual ( whatever that means ) is to possess whatever you want in order to spend it only on your own earthly desires is definitely a problem. That has nothing to do with believing God for His abundance so that you can be a blessing to others!

Gluttony is not a good thing but are you going to stop eating because of the "evilness" of it? Throwing the baby out with the dirty water is just not wise.

It's the "deceitfulness" of riches that stops the word of God from bringing fruit in our life . It is not the riches! It's so easy in this world to trust in what we have instead of in God. Jesus was not against riches...He was against riches having YOU! The true riches in heaven is Jesus. He is our treasure! Seek Him!

If people are "seeking" the Lord just for money they are missing out on the pearl of great price. The same principal is in ..if we are only seeking the Lord so that He will deliver us from harm..we too are missing out on the real treasure ( which is Jesus Himself ). If we seek the Lord only for our wants...that too is going to be a problem as well.

This poverty mindset of only giving me my "needs" is rooted in selfishness. It's all about me..me...me! In effect this mindset is doing the very same thing that people accuse some preachers of...when they preach to believe God for abundance so you can be a blessing to others. God is a God of abundance.

Not seeking the abundance that is already ours in the Lord is in essence self-centerness. This..Lord give me only "my" needs is rooted in selfishness. We should be believing God for super abundance so that we can be a blessing to others!

Do people take some things wrong sometimes and get the priorities off base?..yes..of course they do. That does not mean we throw out the spiritual truth because of wrongly placed motives.

If a random stranger gave you an estate it would definitely be a blessing of abundance from the Lord and it has nothing to do with your spiritual growth. You would have lots to give out to be a blessing to others. If having abundance is going to stop for free will to worship ( for whatever reason ).....your circuits are going to blow in heaven. That place is full of abundance. You will never be able to worship there!

It is not the "abundance" that is the evil thing...it's a matter of where is your life and trust?

We need to grow up and stop being so self-centered and start thinking of being a blessing to others.

This back-biting and tearing our brothers and sisters up in the Lord is shameful!

Romans 12:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

One day in heaven these people will be living beside you and they will come over to visit you..bringing abundance that the Lord gave them to bless you with them. They will put their arms around you and with tears of love for you that will fall on your head be thanking God for you! ( you will be doing the same thing to them..you will be bringing your abundance to others )

Pray for our brothers and sisters. Ask God to bless them abundantly so they can be a blessing to others!

Romans 12:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Let's have the below attitude. Yes... we can judge a wrong motive when we see it but we do not judge the people themselves and malign them.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Brethren - let's put on Christ! We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We have the love of God in us. We have the life of God in us. We have the goodness and kindness of our Lord in us! Let us "be" who we really are in the Lord!

No one said we should not have any money. We use it for our needs. There is a big difference between needs and wants. Spiritual “wants" are great, and there is nothing wrong with earthly “wants” as well. But if your only reason for being spiritual is to possess the earthly “wants” then you got a problem. Does this make sense?


We should be happy to except any gift of abundance from our Lord, but seeking such abundance should not be why we seek the Lord in the first place. This is exactly what these preachers are teaching, seek the Lord and get paid. Jesus never taught this, the only riches Jesus asked people to seek were in heaven.



if a random stranger gave me a lavish estate worth millions of dollars with exotic sports cars in the garage, and all the rest, and you told me it was a blessing of abundance from our Lord, please explain to me how such a gift of possessions would help my spiritual growth. IMO such items would be a distraction from my free will to worship.

many in these churches are being lead astray by wealth and possessions (serve the Lord and get paid!) , it is very shameful and people need to wake up!!

 

[jaybird88]

I agree that if your only reason for being spiritual ( whatever that means ) is to possess whatever you want in order to spend it only on your own earthly desires is definitely a problem. That has nothing to do with believing God for His abundance so that you can be a blessing to others!

It's the "deceitfulness" of riches that stops the word of God from bringing fruit in our life . It is not the riches! It's so easy in this world to trust in what we have instead of in God. Jesus was not against riches...He was against riches having YOU! The true riches in heaven is Jesus. He is our treasure! Seek Him!

If a random stranger gave you an estate it would definitely be a blessing of abundance from the Lord and it has nothing to do with your spiritual growth. You would have lots to give out to be a blessing to others. If having abundance is going to stop for free will to worship ( for whatever reason ).....your circuits are going to blow in heaven. That place is full of abundance. You will never be able to worship there!

We need to grow up and stop being so self-centered and start thinking of being a blessing to others.

This back-biting and tearing our brothers and sisters up in the Lord is shameful!

Romans 12:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

One day in heaven these people will be living beside you and they will come over to visit you..bringing abundance that the Lord gave them to bless you with them. They will put their arms around you and with tears of love for you that will fall on your head be thanking God for you! ( you will be doing the same thing to them..you will be bringing your abundance to others )


Brethren - let's put on Christ! We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We have the love of God in us. We have the life of God in us. We have the goodness and kindness of our Lord in us! Let us "be" who we really are in the Lord!

no one is saying walk away from all money. (Throwing the baby out with the dirty water).but you keep going back to this, why?

This poverty mindset of only giving me my "needs" is rooted in selfishness. It's all about me..me...me! In effect this mindset is doing the very same thing that people accuse some preachers of...when they preach to believe God for abundance so you can be a blessing to others. God is a God of abundance.

Not seeking the abundance that is already ours in the Lord is in essence self-centerness. This..Lord give me only "my" needs is rooted in selfishness. We should be believing God for super abundance so that we can be a blessing to others!

this makes no sense to me. are you saying a poor person is selfish and a rich person selfless? please tell me your kidding. if you have any experience in volunteering or charity work you would understand that poor folks will out give rich folks one thousand to one. a poor person will give you the shirt off their back, the rich usually care nothing of the needs of others.

exactly how much money(abundance) does one need to help someone? how much does it cost to volunteer, change a tire for an elder, or get a tree limb off the fence for a disabled person?

i have a few abundant blessings from my Lord i am thankful for, my 2 children, my mom and dad, my giant family and all the love i got when i was a kid. i spend many hours a day thinking of these things and how very fortunate i have been in my life. all these things cost zero money, these are real blessings.

abundant wealth mostly only leads to wanting more abundance of wealth.

 

[Grace777x70]

The people are not selfish because they are poor.....neither are rich people selfless..that is "reading" stuff into what I said..The poverty mindset that says..just meet my needs..I don't want anything more so that I can be a blessing to anyone else..that is what I said as you can see.....God wants me poor to keep me humble...that is a gross mis-representation of our loving Father.

Goodness ..you are missing the whole point. Who said that having abundance to give to others means that voluntering and loving people by being there..or giving people a smile when they are down....spending time with your family...etc..that they are not blessings...that is just plain not intellectually sound thinking.

that is like someone saying "God's desire for you is to be healthy".. God wants you to have a healthy mindset!...then someone says.."what?..are you saying because I am sick that God hates me?..are you saying that because I need glasses that my good ears are not healthy?'....This type of thinking and "reading" stuff into statements are not intellectually sound thinking.

I love living in New York for the good shopping....a person hears that ..and says...What?..are you saying because I live in New Jersey we don't have good shopping?..are you saying you are better then me where I live?..see the weird mindset here??

if abundant wealth only leads to wanting more abundance of wealth. By goodness....God id a God of abundance...stay away from heaven!!!!!!!!!!

abundance in the form of money is neither good nor bad on it's own merit...it's all in whose hands it is in.

One can do more with more money..it's that simple! It's about mathematics ..There are 100 people available to give to an orphanage.

1st group has $100 each to give

2nd group have $1,000 each to give..

mathematically speaking speaking..can the 2nd group provide a greater blessing in dollars then the 1st group..yes,,of course and it is a good thing to have more to give...it has nothing to do with one group being "better" or have a more giving heart..

Is the worth of a person is not involved in this?..nor does it diminish what they do to bless others without using money in question...and to think otherwise is not healthy thinking.

anyway...we still don't rip our brothers and sisters apart..if you don't like abundance..that's ok..Happy si he that doesn't condemn himself in what he believes.

I done here....so bless you my brother. I pray you prosper and be in health! God has great unconditional love for all of us..let's grow in the knowledge of Him.

no one is saying walk away from all money. (Throwing the baby out with the dirty water).but you keep going back to this, why?



this makes no sense to me. are you saying a poor person is selfish and a rich person selfless? please tell me your kidding. if you have any experience in volunteering or charity work you would understand that poor folks will out give rich folks one thousand to one. a poor person will give you the shirt off their back, the rich usually care nothing of the needs of others.

exactly how much money(abundance) does one need to help someone? how much does it cost to volunteer, change a tire for an elder, or get a tree limb off the fence for a disabled person?

i have a few abundant blessings from my Lord i am thankful for, my 2 children, my mom and dad, my giant family and all the love i got when i was a kid. i spend many hours a day thinking of these things and how very fortunate i have been in my life. all these things cost zero money, these are real blessings.

abundant wealth mostly only leads to wanting more abundance of wealth.

 

[jaybird88]

The people are not selfish because they are poor.....neither are rich people selfless..that is "reading" stuff into what I said..The poverty mindset that says..just meet my needs..I don't want anything more so that I can be a blessing to anyone else..that is what I said as you can see.....God wants me poor to keep me humble...that is a gross mis-representation of our loving Father.
Goodness ..you are missing the whole point. Who said that having abundance to give to others means that voluntering and loving people by being there..or giving people a smile when they are down....spending time with your family...etc..that they are not blessings...that is just plain not intellectually sound thinking.

im not saying we should ask to be blessed with dyer poverty. my point is our lives should not be focused on how much wealth we can accumulate. this has been my point all along but you keep taking this point and going sideways with it.
i never claimed our Lord wants us poor, but our Lord did say He loved Moses on account of his humility. how humble are those that live on an estate with 6 homes worth millions? most would say not many

if abundant wealth only leads to wanting more abundance of wealth. By goodness....God id a God of abundance...stay away from heaven!!!!!!!!!!

i am talking about earthly wealth, possessions, like the possessions Jesus said not to store up. and yes, these possessions lead to wanting more possessions.

One can do more with more money..it's that simple! It's about mathematics ..There are 100 people available to give to an orphanage. . . .

the problem with this is that it only works on paper and not in reality. a person with little money usually dont mind giving some of it to help. the person with lots of money most defiantly has more to give but most times will choose not to because it would mean less money for them.
if your theory was correct, then workers should be getting higher wages every year as those business owners gave back. but this does not happen. the owners profit margin goes up and the workers goes down, this is reality.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have agreed with you from the very start that wealth is not to be our focus. We seek Him as our treasure. The real issue is ripping and tearing about our brothers in the Lord because they have money. It's sick! Are there some that think they are superior then others because they have money..yes!..does that throw out the fact that God wants us to have an abundance to give to others?..of course not.

Abundance within itself is not evil. It's not about the money! It's always a matter of where your trust is . Being rich or poor is not indicative of trusting God for our lives.

I will just say this one thing and leave it at that...just to kill a "sacred cow"...

....humility has absolutely nothing to do with money..being rich or poor is not indicative of humility in any sense.

1 Peter 5:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.
Humility is depending on the God and trusting Him for everything in their life. Humility is to be willing to listen to others in the Body Of Christ. Humility is casting all your care on Him because He cares for you. Humility is agreeing with what God says about truth. Humility is submitting ourselves under God and saying the same thing that He says about situations...about others...about ourselves...no more and no less.

Humility has absolutely nothing to do with possessions or being poor. That is a religiously taught "sacred caw" that needs to be sacrificed and put away with. Humble people can have millions...humble people can have not one red cent.

Are there people that have abundance that are self centered and selfish?...of course there are...does that negate God wants us to be abundantly supplied to be a blessing to others?...of course not.

Are there people that do not have one red cent that are self centered and selfish?...of course there are..does that negate God wants us to be abundantly supplied to be a blessing to others?..of course not.

The abundance is not the "evil" here...it is not the issue...it's us people! God's desire is for all of us to be richly supplied with all things so that we cane be a blessing to our families and to a hurting world out there.


The person with millions and the person with not one red cent are all precious to God...all deeply loved...all complete in Christ...all have the righteousness of God in them...all have the new creation...all have Christ inside of them.

He is our life, love and treasure!

im not saying we should ask to be blessed with dyer poverty. my point is our lives should not be focused on how much wealth we can accumulate. this has been my point all along but you keep taking this point and going sideways with it.
i never claimed our Lord wants us poor, but our Lord did say He loved Moses on account of his humility. how humble are those that live on an estate with 6 homes worth millions? most would say not many



i am talking about earthly wealth, possessions, like the possessions Jesus said not to store up. and yes, these possessions lead to wanting more possessions.



the problem with this is that it only works on paper and not in reality. a person with little money usually dont mind giving some of it to help. the person with lots of money most defiantly has more to give but most times will choose not to because it would mean less money for them.
if your theory was correct, then workers should be getting higher wages every year as those business owners gave back. but this does not happen. the owners profit margin goes up and the workers goes down, this is reality.

 

[jaybird88]

I have agreed with you from the very start that wealth is not to be our focus. We seek Him as our treasure. The real issue is ripping and tearing about our brothers in the Lord because they have money. It's sick! Are there some that think they are superior then others because they have money..yes!..does that throw out the fact that God wants us to have an abundance to give to others?..of course not.

Abundance within itself is not evil. It's not about the money! It's always a matter of where your trust is . Being rich or poor is not indicative of trusting God for our lives.

I will just say this one thing and leave it at that...just to kill a "sacred cow"...

....humility has absolutely nothing to do with money..being rich or poor is not indicative of humility in any sense.

1 Peter 5:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.
Humility is depending on the God and trusting Him for everything in their life. Humility is to be willing to listen to others in the Body Of Christ. Humility is casting all your care on Him because He cares for you. Humility is agreeing with what God says about truth. Humility is submitting ourselves under God and saying the same thing that He says about situations...about others...about ourselves...no more and no less.

Humility has absolutely nothing to do with possessions or being poor. That is a religiously taught "sacred caw" that needs to be sacrificed and put away with. Humble people can have millions...humble people can have not one red cent.

Are there people that have abundance that are self centered and selfish?...of course there are...does that negate God wants us to be abundantly supplied to be a blessing to others?...of course not.

Are there people that do not have one red cent that are self centered and selfish?...of course there are..does that negate God wants us to be abundantly supplied to be a blessing to others?..of course not.

The abundance is not the "evil" here...it is not the issue...it's us people! God's desire is for all of us to be richly supplied with all things so that we cane be a blessing to our families and to a hurting world out there.


The person with millions and the person with not one red cent are all precious to God...all deeply loved...all complete in Christ...all have the righteousness of God in them...all have the new creation...all have Christ inside of them.

He is our life, love and treasure!

i believe we agree on many things here. maybe things are different in Canada but in my culture it has changed a great deal over the years. we seem to be a culture that is way to obsessed with wealth, money, career, status and the lot. far different than the culture i grew up in. it wasnt long ago all one should be concerned with was our Lord, family and work hard, working hard had nothing to do with money, it just meant do an honest days work and be proud of your work even if your a ditch digger. now we have become a culture that thinks we need a mile long toothpaste isle at wall mart with a 100 different choices of toothpaste. i see a world that has fallen far away from the simple things that really matter.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said my precious brother! So true! our enemy loves to take the blessings of our loving Father and distort them! But greater is He on the inside of us then he that is in the world! We win in Him!...always.

He's a good, good Father!

i believe we agree on many things here. maybe things are different in Canada but in my culture it has changed a great deal over the years. we seem to be a culture that is way to obsessed with wealth, money, career, status and the lot. far different than the culture i grew up in. it wasnt long ago all one should be concerned with was our Lord, family and work hard, working hard had nothing to do with money, it just meant do an honest days work and be proud of your work even if your a ditch digger. now we have become a culture that thinks we need a mile long toothpaste isle at wall mart with a 100 different choices of toothpaste. i see a world that has fallen far away from the simple things that really matter.