-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What everyone else said AND:
AIDS in Africa is almost entirely in the heterosexual population, and is being spread rapidly by a mock Levirate law. If a man dies (of AIDS, esp.) then the brother is obligated to sleep with the wife/wives, who probably have HIV or AIDS. Then he takes it back to his wives, dies of AIDS, then the wives pass it on to another person.
Getting people to stop this practice is the way to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. From what I understand, the gay community in North America is very aware of AIDS, and how it is transmitted and it is no longer the biggest source of transmission.
So maybe in the 80's or 90's this was relevant (not the killing part, just educating gays!) but it is as far from the medical truth as possible.
And Maxwel, I do not support free speech at any cost. Not from a government perspective, but rather from the point of the body of Christ. This man needs to be censored, he is alienating more people from God, straight and gay. I guess the competition from Westboro for the most evil church misusing the name of Christ is getting stiff these days!
AIDS in Africa is almost entirely in the heterosexual population, and is being spread rapidly by a mock Levirate law. If a man dies (of AIDS, esp.) then the brother is obligated to sleep with the wife/wives, who probably have HIV or AIDS. Then he takes it back to his wives, dies of AIDS, then the wives pass it on to another person.
Getting people to stop this practice is the way to stop the spread of AIDS in Africa. From what I understand, the gay community in North America is very aware of AIDS, and how it is transmitted and it is no longer the biggest source of transmission.
So maybe in the 80's or 90's this was relevant (not the killing part, just educating gays!) but it is as far from the medical truth as possible.
And Maxwel, I do not support free speech at any cost. Not from a government perspective, but rather from the point of the body of Christ. This man needs to be censored, he is alienating more people from God, straight and gay. I guess the competition from Westboro for the most evil church misusing the name of Christ is getting stiff these days!
A
"We have systematically studied the role of religious leaders in sub-Saharan Africa for about a decade. As a single class of people, local religious leaders sit at the very top of our list of who should receive credit for the behavior changes that have curbed the spread of HIV in Africa.
Local religious messages about abstinence and faithfulness are, at their root, moral messages, but not exclusively so. For nearly two decades, religious leaders of various stripes in Malawi—a religiously diverse country with high HIV prevalence—have been offering practical messages about how to resist the temptation of beautiful women, how to prevent jealousies in polygynous households, how to discern whether a boyfriend or girlfriend will be a faithful spouse in the long run, and why withholding sex within marriage might be risky for both partners.
These messages have mattered. In congregations where AIDS and sexual mortality are discussed regularly, unmarried people are more likely to report being abstinent and married individuals faithful to their spouses."
^ It appears Christian pastors, missionaries, and workers in Africa now have a scholarly study proving their efforts are the number one reason for the reduction of new HIV infections in African countries across Africa. Liberals, who have consistently falsely demonized Christians as barriers to progress with respect to AIDs in Africa in the Western popular media, have been soundly refuted with this study and owe the Christian workers in Africa a BIG apology.
Read on: Good news on AIDS in Africa: Religious leaders help fight disease.
See: Religion and AIDS in Africa: Jenny Trinitapoli, Alexander Weinreb: 9780195335941: Amazon.com: Books
Local religious messages about abstinence and faithfulness are, at their root, moral messages, but not exclusively so. For nearly two decades, religious leaders of various stripes in Malawi—a religiously diverse country with high HIV prevalence—have been offering practical messages about how to resist the temptation of beautiful women, how to prevent jealousies in polygynous households, how to discern whether a boyfriend or girlfriend will be a faithful spouse in the long run, and why withholding sex within marriage might be risky for both partners.
These messages have mattered. In congregations where AIDS and sexual mortality are discussed regularly, unmarried people are more likely to report being abstinent and married individuals faithful to their spouses."
^ It appears Christian pastors, missionaries, and workers in Africa now have a scholarly study proving their efforts are the number one reason for the reduction of new HIV infections in African countries across Africa. Liberals, who have consistently falsely demonized Christians as barriers to progress with respect to AIDs in Africa in the Western popular media, have been soundly refuted with this study and owe the Christian workers in Africa a BIG apology.
Read on: Good news on AIDS in Africa: Religious leaders help fight disease.
See: Religion and AIDS in Africa: Jenny Trinitapoli, Alexander Weinreb: 9780195335941: Amazon.com: Books
Catholicism is generally considered a sect of wider 'Christianity'. Catholicism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Catholic church oppose contraception, and ifteen percent of Africans are Catholic. Thus, to say that Christians hinder progress in regards to HIV transmission in Africa is technically accurate. Perhaps a distinction needs to be made between Catholic missionaries and missionaries of whichever denomination of Christianity those you speak of belong to.
The Catholic church oppose contraception, and ifteen percent of Africans are Catholic. Thus, to say that Christians hinder progress in regards to HIV transmission in Africa is technically accurate. Perhaps a distinction needs to be made between Catholic missionaries and missionaries of whichever denomination of Christianity those you speak of belong to.
Well Thomist, of course you are correct that keeping the pants on until marriage is a neglected preventative for STD's.
Do you mind if I focus on "ethos"? I realize it is not the use of this particular word which is the crux of your post. But it is important to note that adopting some philosophy of life or endorsing certain precepts as "guiding beliefs" does not prevent sin (fornication, adultery, etc.). When the law came, sin revived & I died (Rom 7). So if some denomination has as its published ethos how sex is reserved for marriage, that doesn't keep the pants on the members of the denomination, nor stop sexual misconduct. Now finding regeneration by trusting Christ as Savior, then walking by the Spirit is effective vs the lust of the flesh.
Do you mind if I focus on "ethos"? I realize it is not the use of this particular word which is the crux of your post. But it is important to note that adopting some philosophy of life or endorsing certain precepts as "guiding beliefs" does not prevent sin (fornication, adultery, etc.). When the law came, sin revived & I died (Rom 7). So if some denomination has as its published ethos how sex is reserved for marriage, that doesn't keep the pants on the members of the denomination, nor stop sexual misconduct. Now finding regeneration by trusting Christ as Savior, then walking by the Spirit is effective vs the lust of the flesh.
A
You need to start actually reading the articles (if not the studies) before posting replies. I don't mean to be rude but your basically stating the exact opposite of what the empirical study showed to be true.
This empirical study clearly showed that, "As a single class of people, local religious leaders sit at the very top of our list of who should receive credit for the behavior changes that have curbed the spread of HIV in Africa."
Try to set the bias that is blinding you from accepting these empirically proven facts for just one minute and consider that, "Far from pushing fire-and-brimstone doctrine, religious messages about abstinence and faithfulness have been pragmatic and effective. They have reduced the spread of HIV in countless African communities that have been unreached by resources from the Global Fund and its counterparts."
As for condoms, the study states:
"On condoms—the public health buff’s favorite subject—religious leaders have been taking pragmatic positions. Most support the use of condoms to prevent HIV transmission. In the late 1980s, a Catholic priest in Tanzania, Father Bernard Joinet, designed a prevention campaign that used images of lifeboats in a sea of AIDS, including one (rubber) boat labeled “condom.” With the support of many religious leaders and organizations, including the Islamic Medical Association of Uganda, this balanced and pragmatic message quickly diffused throughout East Africa.
Of course, support for condoms doesn’t mean that religious leaders are excitedly doling out condoms after communion. They are simply resigned to condoms as a lesser evil. At the same time, they criticize what they see as an obsessive focus on condom promotion on simple pragmatic grounds. First, condom-sex isn’t sustainable in real relationships where there is a desire to procreate. (Childbearing remains important in Africa!)
A second factor is pleasure. Said one of the many people we interviewed: “Sex with a condom is like eating a banana with the peel still on it. I’ve never liked those gadgets.” This is why most of the more than 200 religious leaders we interviewed think that condoms are not a sustainable way for couples to live their lives, navigate their relationships, and fully enjoy sex. With regrets to the Vatican and to its critics, low levels of condom use across Africa have little to do with official church teachings. When it comes to AIDS in contemporary Africa, official positions have taken a back seat to pragmatic ideas about how to avoid infection. This pragmatism is evident in messages about alternative prevention strategies—many of which are endorsed by religious leaders."
So basically your assertion that Catholics are not using condoms in Africa is FALSE. At least read the article before making false assertions then... who knows maybe you'll stop making them.
This empirical study clearly showed that, "As a single class of people, local religious leaders sit at the very top of our list of who should receive credit for the behavior changes that have curbed the spread of HIV in Africa."
Try to set the bias that is blinding you from accepting these empirically proven facts for just one minute and consider that, "Far from pushing fire-and-brimstone doctrine, religious messages about abstinence and faithfulness have been pragmatic and effective. They have reduced the spread of HIV in countless African communities that have been unreached by resources from the Global Fund and its counterparts."
As for condoms, the study states:
"On condoms—the public health buff’s favorite subject—religious leaders have been taking pragmatic positions. Most support the use of condoms to prevent HIV transmission. In the late 1980s, a Catholic priest in Tanzania, Father Bernard Joinet, designed a prevention campaign that used images of lifeboats in a sea of AIDS, including one (rubber) boat labeled “condom.” With the support of many religious leaders and organizations, including the Islamic Medical Association of Uganda, this balanced and pragmatic message quickly diffused throughout East Africa.
Of course, support for condoms doesn’t mean that religious leaders are excitedly doling out condoms after communion. They are simply resigned to condoms as a lesser evil. At the same time, they criticize what they see as an obsessive focus on condom promotion on simple pragmatic grounds. First, condom-sex isn’t sustainable in real relationships where there is a desire to procreate. (Childbearing remains important in Africa!)
A second factor is pleasure. Said one of the many people we interviewed: “Sex with a condom is like eating a banana with the peel still on it. I’ve never liked those gadgets.” This is why most of the more than 200 religious leaders we interviewed think that condoms are not a sustainable way for couples to live their lives, navigate their relationships, and fully enjoy sex. With regrets to the Vatican and to its critics, low levels of condom use across Africa have little to do with official church teachings. When it comes to AIDS in contemporary Africa, official positions have taken a back seat to pragmatic ideas about how to avoid infection. This pragmatism is evident in messages about alternative prevention strategies—many of which are endorsed by religious leaders."
So basically your assertion that Catholics are not using condoms in Africa is FALSE. At least read the article before making false assertions then... who knows maybe you'll stop making them.
It's still a valid statement, the Catholic church do officially oppose condom use, and the highest rates of HIV in Africa (last I checked it was Zambia, 21%) is a heavily Catholic African state. Id call out correlation causation fallacy on myself but it seems fairly obvious religious belief plays a pivotal role in the statistic. However, if Catholic priests are indeed allowing the use of condoms (and I'm not sure if one example from 1980 proves that they are), then I applaud them. When all's said and done, unprotected sex with an HIV infected individual is the biggest cause of HIV transmission. Perhaps having children is one of the great Christian considerations, but I'm not sure it's very smart if a person is HIV positive. Of course, the decision is up to a consenting couple when all is said and done.
Dont confuse assertions. I never said Catholics weren't using condoms (blanket statement), I said Catholics' positions on contraception will contribute to HIV transmission, and of course it will. Youre actually saying it's not pertinent for Catholic couples (who want to have kids) to bother using contraception anyway!
Dont confuse assertions. I never said Catholics weren't using condoms (blanket statement), I said Catholics' positions on contraception will contribute to HIV transmission, and of course it will. Youre actually saying it's not pertinent for Catholic couples (who want to have kids) to bother using contraception anyway!
A
No it's not a valid statement in the way you stated it. You stated that Catholics only represent 15% of Africans. The reality is that it's about 7.1% (1.111 billion divided by 158 million). Then you infer that Catholicism is materially responsible for the excessively high rate of HIV infection in Africa despite this empirical study stating the exact opposite.
Then you pick out a tiny country with 14.54 million people (which is a tiny fraction of Africa's 1.111 billion population) and fail to note the religious demographics in Zambia show that it's 68% Protestant with only 21% Catholic. Next you omit that Zambians syncreted their indigenous paganism with the Christian worldview, much like occurred in Haiti, which historically was amoral with respect to sexual promiscuity.
However, the HIV epidemic there caused many people to lose faith in their traditional indigenous paganism because that worldview wasn't teaching them to refrain from sexual immorality and the witchcraft wasn't curing AIDS after they contracted it (exactly what the study you never read states) and they began closely listening to the local Christian/Catholic leaders and adjusting their behavior. As a result, HIV incidence in Zambia has declined by more than 25% from 2001 to 2010.
Finally, I never said, "it's not pertinent for Catholic couples (who want to have kids) to bother using contraception anyway!" You just put your words in my mouth.
I'm not going to keep correcting you; however. Believe whatever you want. I could care less at this point.
Then you pick out a tiny country with 14.54 million people (which is a tiny fraction of Africa's 1.111 billion population) and fail to note the religious demographics in Zambia show that it's 68% Protestant with only 21% Catholic. Next you omit that Zambians syncreted their indigenous paganism with the Christian worldview, much like occurred in Haiti, which historically was amoral with respect to sexual promiscuity.
However, the HIV epidemic there caused many people to lose faith in their traditional indigenous paganism because that worldview wasn't teaching them to refrain from sexual immorality and the witchcraft wasn't curing AIDS after they contracted it (exactly what the study you never read states) and they began closely listening to the local Christian/Catholic leaders and adjusting their behavior. As a result, HIV incidence in Zambia has declined by more than 25% from 2001 to 2010.
Finally, I never said, "it's not pertinent for Catholic couples (who want to have kids) to bother using contraception anyway!" You just put your words in my mouth.
I'm not going to keep correcting you; however. Believe whatever you want. I could care less at this point.
P
I deplore the comments in the context that were given. Which is worse a man who is overzealous and has a poor grasp on true acceptance of Jesus's teachings. Or a man or in other instances woman in the pulpit not preaching against anything sinful or unholy? Folks are right to be concerned that this man uses his platform in a manner most would not. His views are somewhat distorted.
Yet every Sunday service or weekly service some pastor is not teaching truth, or a watered down version so far from the truth that it is un recognizable. I have no doubt that this man believes himself to be correct but don't most Pastors believe such. Don't most of us believe such?
It is a shame and a clear tactic that the enemy uses to keep division in the body of Christ. I have Pastored a while now and it is a hard job, if you add foolishness and lack of understanding you have a mess. Many complain he's false she's false tell me what's false about what he said. In the days of old that is exactly what would have happened. Many say that was then this is now and now we are under grace. Correct we are.
BUT sin is still sin and the wages of sin is death. No I do not advocate killing all gays to rid aids that is asinine.However I do advocate telling the truth and the truth is many believers cant handle the truth because it dosent fit into their overall doctornail views. This is the sad part so while you call this one false and that one false and your Pastor teaches rainbows and Jesus is only love fest and you get the hell stomped and kicked out of you because you are not equipped to handle the truth which is worse?
This makes us Pastors who are trying to repair the breach look bad and work harder but hey its job security I've heard some say. Maybe so but I am appalled that many misuse the platform to speak on behalf of our Lord in such a manner as this but take note it happens every time the church doors open or every time someone post on this site or any other the point is it happens. Many don't have respect for Pastors and don't even go to church and try to speak on things only church folk understand.
That is confusing as well. Here is a question for many to ponder how can a unbeliever ever convince a true dedicated real One God fearing Jesus died and rose again from the dead he shed his blood for me believer in unbelief think on it.
pastac
Yet every Sunday service or weekly service some pastor is not teaching truth, or a watered down version so far from the truth that it is un recognizable. I have no doubt that this man believes himself to be correct but don't most Pastors believe such. Don't most of us believe such?
It is a shame and a clear tactic that the enemy uses to keep division in the body of Christ. I have Pastored a while now and it is a hard job, if you add foolishness and lack of understanding you have a mess. Many complain he's false she's false tell me what's false about what he said. In the days of old that is exactly what would have happened. Many say that was then this is now and now we are under grace. Correct we are.
BUT sin is still sin and the wages of sin is death. No I do not advocate killing all gays to rid aids that is asinine.However I do advocate telling the truth and the truth is many believers cant handle the truth because it dosent fit into their overall doctornail views. This is the sad part so while you call this one false and that one false and your Pastor teaches rainbows and Jesus is only love fest and you get the hell stomped and kicked out of you because you are not equipped to handle the truth which is worse?
This makes us Pastors who are trying to repair the breach look bad and work harder but hey its job security I've heard some say. Maybe so but I am appalled that many misuse the platform to speak on behalf of our Lord in such a manner as this but take note it happens every time the church doors open or every time someone post on this site or any other the point is it happens. Many don't have respect for Pastors and don't even go to church and try to speak on things only church folk understand.
That is confusing as well. Here is a question for many to ponder how can a unbeliever ever convince a true dedicated real One God fearing Jesus died and rose again from the dead he shed his blood for me believer in unbelief think on it.
pastac
Last edited by a moderator: