lost or saved

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#1
#1
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us?

We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed?

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. i'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul?
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#2
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#2
ReinItIn said:
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us?

We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed?

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. i'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul?
Click to expand...

Luk 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#3
#3
thank you for the scriptures skinski7
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#4
#4
We are all "working out our salvation in fear and trembling" as Paul puts it. As we follow Jesus, we all "go from glory to glory". Not everyone has gotten to that particular glory yet.

I agree with you. It is most unfortunate, and most confusing. There are still a lot of spots and wrinkles in the Bride. My wife spent her life trying to get Christians of different denominations to work together. She was able to move a couple buckets of sand from the big pile of those who still don't. Jesus gave His life so we could all be saved, and we have waited 2,000 years, now. Are we even up to 50% yet?
 
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#5
#5
i think the bride might be only those who truly repent and believe. We all sin but does sinning break every ones heart? does sinning make everyone cry for his mercy? do people that play saturday sunday church believe Christ IS king?d o they believe God has a kingdom and we are living as his bride he adores or living as his enemy he has promised to destroy if we do not yield to his Son? God promises to do the work in us and make us able by his power if we keep seeking, keep asking, keep knocking. How many refuse him yet say they serve him cause they hide their sin in darkness and fake a devotion to him one day a week? How many people have been lied to and left on their path of destruction saying, don't judge me, Jesus loves me.. but, truely have only love for themselves and their sin?

What if the bride is spotless and beautiful and Christs heart quickens when she calls out to him. what if all we call his bride are just deceived people that await judgment with the openly rebellious? maybe worse cause they claimed to see.

thank you for you commit and God bless your beautiful wife.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#6
#6
Jesus says "no one who comes to me will I ever reject". Many who refuse Him today will accept Him tomorrow. I think that's why the Bride still has spots and wrinkles; we keep coming and going from within the Bride.

When I say my wife spent her life, I mean that literally. She died last June, mostly just exhausted from following Jesus.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#7
#7
The wheat and the tares will grow up togather...although we treat them relatively the same we
have this exhortation:

Col. 4:5 Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity.

If we have done our duty and folks wont hear..we hold our peace.

We cant really know for sure if a soul is lost ..thats past our paygrade.
Often times God lets someone wonder off from His grace and the believer will appear
worst than your average rank unbeliever. And without His grace they cant spin out pretty good.
Peter says they can forget they were purged from their old sins, blind, and cant see far off.

Best we can do is keep a candle in the window for when He restores them.

For the unbeliever with a false hope unredeemed yet thinking they are we are to
pray God will permit them repentance. If we chastise these people they will dig in their
heels and become even more hard hearted.



fresh fudge anyone? help yourself
 
C

clarkthompson

Senior Member
#8
Jul 8, 2012
624
7
18
#8
yes the bible says in Matthew we are to know them by their fruit and if they are sowing good fruit they are Christ's because we have his Spirit in us we can only bear his fruit we may stumble but we should come to our senses and seek out forgiveness Ephesions teaches the christian life is a struggle with sin
 
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#9
#9
Oh I am so sorry for your separation, praise God you know who has her.

I know he will not turn away anyone that comes to him. He is faithful and just to forgive when we confess our sins, he is faithful even when we are not.. I still believe all in him are made righteous by him. So we are beautiful to him. I still think many who say they are in him are not.. We see people not in him saying they are in him and so we do not see his brides perfection. I actually think people are to repent and believe he is Lord.. mouths that praise with hearts far away are not his bride. He has drawn her.. she is still growing maturing but she has no spot or wrinkle. He is God, he has prepared her clothing and given it to her. those who put it on are the bride.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#10
#10
You can tell when a false believer is in the midst....all they do is try to shake Him down and complain
when anything isnt perfect in their life. They have no real courage unless it looks easy. They follow signs
and wonders. They want the best seats, pray long prayers to be heard. And want the best gifts, pay little
attention to anyone else but those who agree with them. They dont care much for study unless its a 3 step
to success thing. They will listen to truth as long as it isnt too true and doesnt require anything from them.
They also think its our choice to pick which ever belief we want if a major false teaching group has a large
following, well they surely must be ok. Opps im starting to sound like an old Steve Taylor song.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#11
#11
ReinItIn said:
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us?

We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed?

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. i'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul?
Click to expand...
sometimes its because those around us are weak Christians just learning to become strong.

you say shouldn't peace be just as important to them?

as children did we view the world the same way as adults? sometimes no matter what their worldly age is, their maturity in Christ, having walked with the Holy Spirit has not taught them gentleness and love for peace.

if people knew they were in error, most would repent and turn from it. however that is why the Bible tells us that many are blind and deaf. sometimes the only way is to show them God's truth through the reading of His word.

whether the soul is lost or not is hard to say but I do know we should pray for everyone we meet and hope that they find Christ and His light and His love and His wisdom fills their heart and soul.

I think we should show others grace not because they deserve it but because when we did not deserve it God gave us grace. forgiveness because God forgives us. love because God's love overflows from our heart to those around us.

its frustrating at times, but how would you treat one who is unsaved? would it be any different from your brothers and sisters in Christ?

I think God calls us to treat them all with love no matter if they are saved or not and pray that the Seed of His Word takes root and bears fruits in their souls.

even if we never see them again except in Heaven.
 
E

enochson

Guest
#12
#12
ReinItIn said:
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us?

We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed?

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. i'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul?
Click to expand...
first off one must come to the realization that the word unsaved is not biblical there are those in the book that are dead in trespasses and sins, those are asleep, those that are awaken yet are still asleep, and those that are awake. These that I have listed are the biblical frame that one must have when one is talking to another person. What State of being is this person at.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#13
#13
ReinItIn said:
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us?

We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed?
Click to expand...
ReinItIn said:


I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. i'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul?
Click to expand...


I think your right, we can see by a persons actions if they are not doing the will of the Father. What do we do when their is a person living in adultery? Homosexual relationship, drug use?

What do we do even after trying for some time to help them overcome yet they refuse?

Some would say accept them as they are, they are God's children still. Others would say remove them from fellowship.

The answers to tough questions like this must come from scripture, and not opinion.

First we ask, do we love the individual? If yes, then we want to tell them the truth, and not what they and others want to hear - Gal 1:10

Scripture COMMANDS the early church, when those who practice public sins, and refuse to repent, they were to be withdrawn from, yet out of love.

Many will do this in a hypocritical way, that is not scriptural, yet if it is done, in hopes that these stern actions will cause the person to repent and comeback to the fold, then that is merely doing what is commanded.

It's not judging, it is righteous judgment - Jn 7:24, I Cor 1:10, in which we are commanded to judge.

So what does the scripture say?
Ii Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us <----Those who attempt to preach this today are labeled as cult, Pharisee, Legalistic, yet what does this say?

Why do we withdraw from a bro/sis in sin?
II Thess 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed (Godly Sorrow/grief)

Why make him ashamed?
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Our attitude should be:
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

This is to bring the person to Godly Sorrow, as Paul's letter of conviction did to the Corinthians:
2Co 7:9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.
2Co 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

This is the design God has made for HIS church to deal with sin. If we refuse to help a brother see the sin, and tell him what he wants to hear, then we do not really love that soul.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#14
#14
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us? -- I have been trying to change my sister's unhealthy habits for about 15 years now. I have been trying to change my self for more years than I know. There was one thing which Wisdom spoke to me, "A desire to change comes from within. There is nothing anyone can do to change another unless there is a 'wanting to' in them". As much as this is psychologically true, it is also spiritually true. The Spirit can tell a person God's will over and over for as many years, but until there is a desire to change, the Spirit must also succumb to freewill. It is only a contrived spirit which finds a need for God.



We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? -- Yes. You shall know them by their deeds.

shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed? -- Yes, but not the unknowing offenses. But, our Lord covers even them as our High Priest through the gift and sacrifice of Himself. As to, 'know the error in their own ways', that is why God loves a contrived heart. A hear broken leads one away from the rebellion into the arms of a Father awaiting their homecoming.

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. I'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul? -- Or one who is hardening his heart to God's Voice and being lead astray by the desires of the flesh, and who will end up abandoning God. Perhaps there is hope, and perhaps you are sent to yang him from the fire.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#15
#15
cfultz3 said:
I'm honestly asking because you guy's theology is much stronger then mine.. if we are dealing with another Christian shouldn't peace with us be as important to them as it is to us? shouldn't straightening out problems and setting their own thoughts aside to restore fellowship be important to them? shouldn't being corrected and humbling themselves for the sake of Christ be as important to them as it is to us? -- I have been trying to change my sister's unhealthy habits for about 15 years now. I have been trying to change my self for more years than I know. There was one thing which Wisdom spoke to me, "A desire to change comes from within. There is nothing anyone can do to change another unless there is a 'wanting to' in them". As much as this is psychologically true, it is also spiritually true. The Spirit can tell a person God's will over and over for as many years, but until there is a desire to change, the Spirit must also succumb to freewill. It is only a contrived spirit which finds a need for God.



We know the world is the world. We know the world is in rebellion against Gods kingdom.. It is just so hard when that world put Christs name on themselves. but, shouldn't a persons love for Christ and the body of Christ tell us if we are in fact dealing with the unsaved or a Christian? -- Yes. You shall know them by their deeds.

shouldn't people know the error in their own ways to have repented and believed? -- Yes, but not the unknowing offenses. But, our Lord covers even them as our High Priest through the gift and sacrifice of Himself. As to, 'know the error in their own ways', that is why God loves a contrived heart. A hear broken leads one away from the rebellion into the arms of a Father awaiting their homecoming.

I'm not saying keep the lost away from the gospel or the influence of Christ in us. I'm not saying despise them or consider ourselves better. I'm just saying we should expect this kinda stuff from lost people. If a person isn't doing what we expect from a believer isn't there a great possibility we are dealing with a lost soul? -- Or one who is hardening his heart to God's Voice and being lead astray by the desires of the flesh, and who will end up abandoning God. Perhaps there is hope, and perhaps you are sent to yang him from the fire.
Click to expand...
Scripture states, 1 Cor. , 'Your body IS a temple of the Holy Spirit.'

This let's us know that the Spirit once in us can be driven out by our freewill choice.

Maybe a best way to look atvthis verse is...

Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit but YOU still have to invite Him in :)

God Loves a contrite heart, as cee states, Isaiah 66:2 is a tesT verse to me. Great in meaning.

The understanding of tense is very important. And, as cee states, the Spirit must submit to our choices and if the person refusing His care and attention does this willingly then the sin committed is no longer being covered by the blood of Christ.
:(


Just trying to add in, very, very most excellently said, cee, Christbro !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#16
#16
Oh my! You all have given me so much to pray about, think about, and study:) thank you all so much.
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#17
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#17
Reinitin, It is with great love in Christ that I post this.... When I moved to my new town I eneded up on a boat with three men that were not interested in the Lord or the Bible. I was vefy deep into Bible study every minute I could spare... One of the guys asked me why do I not smoke swear or tell dirty jokes as they do... I said I used too, but I am busy with a deep study of God's Word, and I try to keep my mind on Him ALL the time.

May weeks later after many days of fishing on the boat that same guy TB, came to me and said, you are indeed different to ANY man I ever met. You seem to answer different than the "christians" I met before, but you also practice what you preach. I learned much by our converations... He said... I heard you were into this, and I thought ...YEP I saw plenty of them, these Christian people... I was so glad you proved me wrong. YOU DO AS YOU PREACH!

For the next three years that man would be at my shop BEFORE day-break, it was when I have MY TIME WITH GOD, but obviously this man was HUNGRY... and do you know what TB was hungry for? THE THRUTH... THE WORD OF GOD! You see sis, EVERY person that are REALLY into change, are INTO THE TRUTH ONLY!!!! Believe me, the people are SICK of all these false teachers, that preach repentance and baptism and grace, and Blood and Jesus died for us... AND THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ME! THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD!!!! ME being a sinner of this world... People want preachers IN THUTH... IN GOD... they are SICK of man-made preachers.

Oh I am not talking about the MASSES following those sinning preachers, sick in their filth, I am talking about the sinners that WANTS TO TURN TO GOD... Like TB AND MYSELF. All I ask from my preacher is to be APOOINTED by GOD HIMSELF... Like Eph 4:11 to 13. And a church like 1 Cor. 14. Is that to much to ask. Well, my duty to this is to KEEP SURCHING, God said... Those that seek shall find...

I hope this helped! Today TB and I need not even speak, we ust listen to someone, and we look at eachother and our SPIRIT agree! It is amazing how ONE we are!

God bless the readers with this and SHOW them HOW ONE YOUR BODY ARE! Amen!
 
T

TAZorek

Guest
#18
#18
Nobody's perfect. The faith you have, have for yourself. Be patient and wait on the Lord. When dealing with others it's best to consider the moment and test the Spirit. Dogs and swine will do what they do regardless of your intentions. Others, even if saved, may be having a bad day or struggling with something or someone. Patience is a virtue. Not being anxious to answer someone when they ask you to give account or comment on something allows for the Spirit to witness to you as to which direction to go. Sometimes that direction is, walk away. Anticipation of others is a beacon of hope that will shine through as you address people. Anticipate the best, expect little. You will never be disappointed.
 
R

ReinItIn

Guest
#19
#19
God Bless you Cobus. Thank You For TRUTH.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.