Manipulation

[giantone]

Is it ever alright to manipulate someone and if so how? Is it O.K. to get them to do what you think is a good thing? or to try to change them? Anything in the Bible on the subject?

Before I made a different thread on does the ends ever justify the means? But I think the question i'm asking in this thread will get an answer more right to the point.

 

[giantone]

This avatar does not help my credibility. lol.

The shock value is pretty good.

 

[loveschild]

1. Jeremiah 41:3
   Ishmael [manipulated by the Ammonites] also slew all the Jews who were with Gedaliah at Mizpah, and the Chaldean soldiers who were found there.
   Jeremiah 41:2-4 (in Context) Jeremiah 41 (Whole Chapter)

May be a way your talking of?

 

[Deadflesh]

Manipulation is deception. Manipualtion basically means:To manage/control in a skillfull way for ones own advantage.

Its selfish, motivated by carnality, and again, is deception. So is it right to EVER manipulate someone. No. i dotn think so.
However, sometimes we can manipulate others, and NOT know it, because WE are deceived, And we think we are jsut tryign to get them to understand, but instead we are goign OUTSIDE of GODs will, taking things into OUR hands, and controlling the siuation. Im not innocent in this,I have fallen into it. The Flesh LOVEs to manipulate.

Example(innocent one..but stil) A new accuaintance goes to shake your hand, You, being friendly(maybe even a bit attracted), instead of meeting her on the hand shake, go to hug her. She not wanting to hug you, but also not wanting to seem rude, participates in the hug. She doesnt really like it, but says nothing, and keeps a warm smile on. You don't see anything wrong with it. However, YOU just manipulated HER into hugging you, when she stated exacty what she wanted with the outstretched arm.

I know..a bit over the top, but thats the thing FLESH wants what it wants. No matter what. THAT is manipulation.

its Self(lots in the bible about that) and can be Deception(this too is all over the bible)

Well thats my two cents, Jesus bless you.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

I think the word manipulation is deciet, which is always evil in the Bible.

 

[Abiding]

if a gun is pointed at me, or a bear is chasing me up a tree ill
dig deep for my best manipulate ideas.

 

[Rosewater]

Proverbs 6:16-19

New International Version (NIV)


16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Manipulation is not always deceit or wicked, I don't think. One can skillfully manage or control something or someone without being deceitful, just smart possibly appealing to their better selves. As long as you are not doing the above things that God hates, then I think it is okay.

 

[giantone]

Manipulation is deception. Manipualtion basically means:To manage/control in a skillfull way for ones own advantage.

Its selfish, motivated by carnality, and again, is deception. So is it right to EVER manipulate someone. No. i dotn think so.
However, sometimes we can manipulate others, and NOT know it, because WE are deceived, And we think we are jsut tryign to get them to understand, but instead we are goign OUTSIDE of GODs will, taking things into OUR hands, and controlling the siuation. Im not innocent in this,I have fallen into it. The Flesh LOVEs to manipulate.

Example(innocent one..but stil) A new accuaintance goes to shake your hand, You, being friendly(maybe even a bit attracted), instead of meeting her on the hand shake, go to hug her. She not wanting to hug you, but also not wanting to seem rude, participates in the hug. She doesnt really like it, but says nothing, and keeps a warm smile on. You don't see anything wrong with it. However, YOU just manipulated HER into hugging you, when she stated exacty what she wanted with the outstretched arm.

I know..a bit over the top, but thats the thing FLESH wants what it wants. No matter what. THAT is manipulation.

its Self(lots in the bible about that) and can be Deception(this too is all over the bible)

Well thats my two cents, Jesus bless you.

My mom says we all manipulate to some extent, mostly without realizing it. It really bugs me that people do that to such an extreme they must think it is right for them to do it.

What bugs me even more than that is the people who are truly masters of manipulation most of the time come out smelling sweeter than roses while everyone else rots.

 

[giantone]

Proverbs 6:16-19

New International Version (NIV)


16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Manipulation is not always deceit or wicked, I don't think. One can skillfully manage or control something or someone without being deceitful, just smart possibly appealing to their better selves. As long as you are not doing the above things that God hates, then I think it is okay.

I am inclined to agree with that although I'm not sure if that is manipulation exactly, but maybe it is. I would think motive is a big factor as well, If you are acting in love then It could be fine but if your motives are for your own benefit it could be shaky ground.

 

[giantone]

if a gun is pointed at me, or a bear is chasing me up a tree ill
dig deep for my best manipulate ideas.

I like that answer.

 

[giantone]

I think the word manipulation is deciet, which is always evil in the Bible.

You are likely right or at the very least manipulation is a close cousin (or aunt) of deceit.

 

[MaggieMye]

Is it ever alright to manipulate someone and if so how? Is it O.K. to get them to do what you think is a good thing? or to try to change them? Anything in the Bible on the subject? Read up on Jezebel. Manipulation is to CONTROL another person. It is, Biblically, WITCHCRAFT. And witchcraft is the sin of rebellion.

Before I made a different thread on does the ends ever justify the means? Never. But I think the question i'm asking in this thread will get an answer more right to the point. Just what point are you trying to make?

 

[Kathleen]

Yes and No.

Well if you have a gunman in a bank, holding a 10 of folk hostage. He askes for 1mil in ransom per person or w/e. so 10mil in total
A policeman says he can give him , 8.5 mil, that is all he can/is allowed to give. In order to save these people.

Some people call it negotiating, some call it manipulation.

I think it depends on the situation, and what the consequenses are, if not "maniulated"...

Look at the sin of lieing...

We all know to lie is wrong.... however
...in the 2nd world war...is it better to lie about having some jews hidden in your attic, or not lie, and get these jews killed? Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

There are ALOT of variables that need to be considered in EACH situation. It is a yes and no, like almost everything in the world.

Just my two cents

God Bless

 

[giantone]

Yes and No.

Well if you have a gunman in a bank, holding a 10 of folk hostage. He askes for 1mil in ransom per person or w/e. so 10mil in total
A policeman says he can give him , 8.5 mil, that is all he can/is allowed to give. In order to save these people.

Some people call it negotiating, some call it manipulation.

I think it depends on the situation, and what the consequenses are, if not "maniulated"...

Look at the sin of lieing...

We all know to lie is wrong.... however
...in the 2nd world war...is it better to lie about having some jews hidden in your attic, or not lie, and get these jews killed? Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

There are ALOT of variables that need to be considered in EACH situation. It is a yes and no, like almost everything in the world.

Just my two cents

God Bless

That was a good post it gives me more to ponder.

 

[foundthetruth]

Yes and No.

Well if you have a gunman in a bank, holding a 10 of folk hostage. He askes for 1mil in ransom per person or w/e. so 10mil in total
A policeman says he can give him , 8.5 mil, that is all he can/is allowed to give. In order to save these people.

Some people call it negotiating, some call it manipulation.

I think it depends on the situation, and what the consequenses are, if not "maniulated"...

Look at the sin of lieing...

We all know to lie is wrong.... however
...in the 2nd world war...is it better to lie about having some jews hidden in your attic, or not lie, and get these jews killed? Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

There are ALOT of variables that need to be considered in EACH situation. It is a yes and no, like almost everything in the world.

Just my two cents

God Bless

I don't agree with lying, even if it meant saving peoples lives. I mean, Paul speaks in Corinthians about people saying that he was doing evil that good may result, but basically he said by no means are we to do evil so that good may result.

So lying, even to save lives, is wrong. Just as stealing food if your family is starving is wrong. Sin is sin. I tend to see the world is black and white.

 

[giantone]

Is it ever alright to manipulate someone and if so how? Is it O.K. to get them to do what you think is a good thing? or to try to change them? Anything in the Bible on the subject? Read up on Jezebel. Manipulation is to CONTROL another person. It is, Biblically, WITCHCRAFT. And witchcraft is the sin of rebellion.

Before I made a different thread on does the ends ever justify the means? Never. But I think the question i'm asking in this thread will get an answer more right to the point. Just what point are you trying to make?

I think your definition of manipulation hits the mark right on target. The point I wanted to discuss wasn't does the end ever justify the means as much as is manipulation ever O.K. and controlling other people is against what Jesus came to Earth for. We are to be able to freely choose if we do evil or good. If we were forced to do either it wouldn't be our choice.

For me I can choose not to be controlled or I can choose to make some people very angry I choose the later. I can tell you all one thing, if I wasn't a Christian I would be allot less of a troublemaker.

 

[foundthetruth]

Do not manipulate.

 

[yaright]

There is a positive way that requires skilled means to cause someone to carefully consider the direction of sin in his or her life. The Apostle Paul (along with friends in Christ) gave witness which caused many to consider a necessity to repent! Because of the healing ways of our Lord, there were a great number of people who believed; causing a riot among the people of Ephesis. There were many who profited in the worshiping of a god; and these considered Paul a thief, because these people thought something (their livelihood) was being taken (stolen) from them.

Our wisdom needs to exceed the wisdom of the serpent. Speaking to men in the manner of beasts is to draw the attention of the carnal mind in such a way that one who strays a little ways from the gathering place of sin, might be snatched away from them. This means is found in both the Old and New Testament.

To draw someone into sin/ or draw someone away from sin; is a form of manipulation.

 

[Kathleen]

I don't agree with lying, even if it meant saving peoples lives. I mean, Paul speaks in Corinthians about people saying that he was doing evil that good may result, but basically he said by no means are we to do evil so that good may result.

So lying, even to save lives, is wrong. Just as stealing food if your family is starving is wrong. Sin is sin. I tend to see the world is black and white.

You have mis-understood scripture. Scripture shows an example in Joshua (2:4-8) Rahab is then considered as a righteous woman later on, in James 2:25, even though she lied to protect the spies.

In relation to stealing to feed your starving family, or oneself, read Proverbs 6:30-31.

 

[pickles]

Giantone, I think this scripture is what you are looking for.
2 Corr. chapter 4
I found it to be very good reading on this subject.

God bless.
pickles