Modern Christianity: The Real Deal or Doctine(s) of Compromise?

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 13, 2011

[I had written this post in response to a topic on another thread however, seeing as this post covers a lot of ground, I would like to get the opinions of others on this issue.]

We all are familiar with the greatest commandment, that we are to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself. When we do this, all the other commandments fall into place. Is this possible? I have no doubt it is possible through indwelling of Christ in us, the Holy Spirit. Is it probable? Not when the majority of the church has accepted doctrine(s) that claim it is either impossible or unnecessary.

Think about this... Jesus himself proclaim that there is no greater love than to lay one's life down for a friend. He then gave his life on the cross of Calvary that we might be saved. In turn, the early church of the 1st, 2nd & 3rd centuries understood this truth and gave their lives also so that the gospel could spread throughout the Roman Empire and into the far reaches of Europe, Africa and Asia. If you read the testimonies of these great men and women of God, you will notice that they had died to their own sense of self and the lusts of the world long before they gave their lives for the sake of the gospel.

What loving parent would not give or risk their life to save the of their child? What loving parent isn't willing to sacrifice his or her own personal needs or desires for the sake of their children? Keeping this in mind, I believe it is very conceivable that a person can keep the greatest commandment but that many martyrs in the past have kept the first commandment through the leadership and empowerment of the indwelling Christ (Holy Spirit).

I personally believe that the reason why modern Christianity over the last couple of centuries looks and acts more like the world than it does Jesus or even the early church which existed during the centuries following Christ's life and death is because we have embraced doctrines of compromise which state that dying to one's own sin and selfishness is no longer required. Now whether or not dying to one's own self is a necessity for salvation, I'll leave that up to you to investigate. However, I know for a fact that we will never have victory over the sin and selfishness that keeps us in mental, emotional or spiritual bondage until we are willing to let go and allow God to remove or world desires and selfish behaviors.

I also believe that because the majority of "believers" do not walk in victory over sin and self to be the reason why the gospel is seldom effective in areas like the United States and Europe where the majority of people view Christianity to be no different than Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or any other of the world's more prominant religions. People consider Christianity no different from any other religion because few Christians actually walk in true, genuine anointing of the Holy Spirit. But why? Could it be that it is our unwillingness to surrender to the work of the Holy Spirit through sanctification and give up our selfish desires and worldly lusts actually grieves the Holy Spirit as scripture implies?

In ending, I know that there are many on these boards who will disagree with me and do their best to discredit everything I have to say. However, if we are truly honest with ourselves and with God concerning scriptural Christianity in comparison to modern Christianity, I believe many will agree with my observations.

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 13, 2011

Made a couple of typos at the end of one of my paragraphs which should read as the following:

FireOnTheAltar said:

I personally believe that the reason why modern Christianity over the last couple of centuries looks and acts more like the world than it does Jesus or even the early church which existed during the centuries following Christ's life and death is because we have embraced doctrines of compromise which state that dying to one's own sin and selfishness is no longer required. Now whether or not dying to one's own self is a necessity for salvation, I'll leave that up to you to investigate. However, I know for a fact that we will never have victory over the sin and selfishness that keeps us in mental, emotional or spiritual bondage until we are willing to let go and allow God to remove OUR WORLDLY desires and selfish behaviors.

Grandpa · Jul 13, 2011

I also believe that because the majority of "believers" do not walk in victory over sin and self to be the reason why the gospel is seldom effective in areas like the United States and Europe where the majority of people view Christianity to be no different than Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or any other of the world's more prominant religions. People consider Christianity no different from any other religion because few Christians actually walk in true, genuine anointing of the Holy Spirit. But why? Could it be that it is our unwillingness to surrender to the work of the Holy Spirit through sanctification and give up our selfish desires and worldly lusts actually grieves the Holy Spirit as scripture implies?

When I first said a prayer of repentance and salvation I thought that was it, I was in, I was saved. I was only 13 and my parents were against going to church and I didn't read the bible or pray or anything. I would bet there are a lot of people out there that have said a sinners prayer and they think the same thing, that they are in, thats it. Once I started reading my bible, (to my shame it was about 20 yrs after saying a sinners prayer) I realized there was much much more to it than simply stating a few words in front of a church. If you found out how many people actually read their bible I would bet it is very few in comparison to the number of people who call themselves christian.

Good Post FireOnTheAltar

God Bless You

syborg · Jul 13, 2011

My issues with 'modern christianity' is this. . we are under grace, so many believe they can do as they like even knowing it may well be sin. . such as besetting sin (as some call it) and then let grace cover them until God changes them. . no no no. . the bible is clear if your eye offends you pluck it out. . etc. . take up your cross daily and follow him, deny self, crucify the flesh, we are no longer slaves to sin yes there is the whole that that i would not that I do, but if YOU KNOW of an issue you have a DUTY to Christ to sort it. . and ask him to help you, but take the step. . be pro active. . Christianity in my view is VERY PRO ACTIVE, not sit here in sion waiting to be changed. .grrr. .

The leader of my church confessed the other day they dont preach enough obedience as they want people to get there themselves . . people are lazy they will not do if not led. . sheesh. . as I see pro active as being a fundemantal behaviour it makes me seem hardline to others around me. . I think God is hardline. . loving, forgiving etc. . yes. . but hardline. . he demands and expects obedience. . it is not a democracy in the kingdom. .

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 13, 2011

syborg said:

My issues with 'modern christianity' is this. . we are under grace, so many believe they can do as they like even knowing it may well be sin. . such as besetting sin (as some call it) and then let grace cover them until God changes them. . no no no. . the bible is clear if your eye offends you pluck it out. . etc. . take up your cross daily and follow him, deny self, crucify the flesh, we are no longer slaves to sin yes there is the whole that that i would not that I do, but if YOU KNOW of an issue you have a DUTY to Christ to sort it. . and ask him to help you, but take the step. . be pro active. . Christianity in my view is VERY PRO ACTIVE, not sit here in sion waiting to be changed. .grrr. .

The leader of my church confessed the other day they dont preach enough obedience as they want people to get there themselves . . people are lazy they will not do if not led. . sheesh. . as I see pro active as being a fundemantal behaviour it makes me seem hardline to others around me. . I think God is hardline. . loving, forgiving etc. . yes. . but hardline. . he demands and expects obedience. . it is not a democracy in the kingdom. .

Agreed.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 13, 2011

Grandpa said:

That is the sad part. Saying the sinners prayer means nothing if their is not a heart attitude faith in everything Christ says. (especially the I am a sinner. My works are as filthy rags, There are none righteous etc etc) Whoever truely believes this would not want to continue living the way they did before. How can you admit to bein a sinner, Admit to being at enmity with God, admit to doing things which want to make God vomit. Want to recieve his blessed gift of salvation and have a relatonship with him, and still want to do the things you have come to agree are BAD things? I just can't see it.

not to mention. Those who are truly saved have the HS in them. He will not allow you to live as you did before. He will chasten you and do whatever it takes to bring you on the right path. I know, I have felt it. it is no fun believe me!

As James said. Someone who is saved will do works. If you have no changed life. All you have done is show you said a few words which meant nothing. Your faith was not real (dead) thus you were never saved to begin with.

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 13, 2011

I believe that the key to victory over sin in our lives is our willingness to die to our own selfish desires. In my opinion, sin and selfishness are the opposite sides of the same coin. To the eye they might appear somewhat different but in reality they are the same thing.

Now I'm not saying that we won't mess up from time to time. We all make mistakes, often times without realizing it. However, I also believe that if we are genuine in our desire to do away with sin and self that God will provide all the necessary grace it will take to get you there. While it is conceivable that one my never reach that goal in this life, if the heart is in the right place then God will see you through. Which should never be mistaken with a license to sin!

4runner · Jul 13, 2011

FireOnTheAltar said:

I believe that the key to victory over sin in our lives is our willingness to die to our own selfish desires. In my opinion, sin and selfishness are the opposite sides of the same coin. To the eye they might appear somewhat different but in reality they are the same thing.

Now I'm not saying that we won't mess up from time to time. We all make mistakes, often times without realizing it. However, I also believe that if we are genuine in our desire to do away with sin and self that God will provide all the necessary grace it will take to get you there. While it is conceivable that one my never reach that goal in this life, if the heart is in the right place then God will see you through. Which should never be mistaken with a license to sin!

Amen, good word

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 13, 2011

Matthew 16:24-25

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 14, 2011

Many of us struggle with various weaknesses which we will never overcome in and of our own strength.The simple truth is that we can not sanctify ourselves. Unfortunately, many teach that we will never overcome those weaknesses in this life. While it is true that you and I can not overcome them, Christ sacrificed himself that we may not only be forgiven for our transgressions but also to repair the rift between God and man thus our bodies are now the temple of the Spirit of the living God through which all things are possible. It just so happens that sanctification id His specialty! He is more than able to deliverance from those sinful tendencies which haunt us when we truly understand what the scriptures teach concerning such matters.

1 Corinthians 10:13 states: "The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure."

If this verse is true and God is faithful to show us the way out when we are tempted then we need to take our eyes off of our temptations and begin to look to God for the escape. What is the escape? Look no further than the gospels for the answer. When Jesus was confronted by the Devil with various temptations, what did Jesus do? He turned to the Word of God. We should do the same!

There are many scriptures throughout the bible that discuss this very issue, scriptures that we can use to remind us of God's promise that we needn't fulfill the desires of the flesh when we take our eyes off of our worldly desires in the moment of temptation and place our focus on Jesus. Here are a few of my favorites:

John 8:31 "Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

2 Peter 1:3-4 "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires."

I John 2:1-2 "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world."
James 4:7-8 "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you."

Jude 1:22-26 "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord,be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."

zone · Jul 14, 2011

FireOnTheAltar said:

The Heresy of Perfectionism

from R.C. Sproul Mar 14, 2011 Category: R.C. Sproul

An ancient heresy of the distinction between two types of Christians, carnal and Spirit-filled, is the heresy of perfectionism. Perfectionism teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life. To be sure, credit is given to the Holy Spirit as the agent who brings total victory over sin to the Christian. But there is a kind of elitism in perfectionism, a feeling that those who have achieved perfection are somehow greater than other Christians. The “perfect” ones do not officially—take credit for their state, but smugness and pride have a way of creeping in.

The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.

Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.

To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.

One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.

If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.

I once encountered a young man who had been a Christian for about a year. He boldly declared to me that he had received the “second blessing” and was now enjoying a life of victory, a life of sinless perfection. I immediately turned his attention to Paul’s teaching on Romans 7. Romans 7 is the biblical death blow to every doctrine of perfectionism. My young friend quickly replied with the classic agreement of the perfectionist heresy, namely, that in Romans 7 Paul is describing his former unconverted state.

I explained to the young man that it is exegetically impossible to dismiss Romans 7 as the expression of Paul’s former life. We examined the passage closely and the man finally agreed that indeed Paul was writing in the present tense. His next response was, “Well, maybe Paul Was speaking of his present experience, but he just hadn’t received the second blessing yet.”

I had a difficult time concealing my astonishment at this spiritual arrogance. I asked him pointedly, “You mean that You, at age nineteen, after one year of Christian faith, have achieved a higher level of obedience to God than the apostle Paul enjoyed when he was writing the Epistle to the Romans?”
To my everlasting shock the young man replied without flinching, “Yes!” Such is the extent to which persons will delude themselves into thinking that they have achieved sinlessness.

I spoke once with a woman who claimed the same “second blessing” of perfectionism who qualified her claim a bit. She said that she was fully sanctified into holiness so that she never committed any willful sins. But she acknowledged that occasionally she still committed sins, though never willfully. Her present sins were unwillful.

What in the world is an unwillful sin? All sin involves the exercise of the will. If an action happens apart from the will it is not a moral action. The involuntary beating of my heart is not a moral action. All sin is willful. Indeed, the corrupt inclination of the will is of the very essence of sin. There is no sin without the willing of sin. The woman was excusing her own sin by denying that she had willed to commit the sin. The sin just sort of “happened.” It was the oldest self-justification known to man: “I didn’t mean to do it!”

In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism. Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?

Someone might answer: “We could still sin against Him in ignorance.” But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.

But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.

A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.

The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog

eternally-gratefull · Jul 14, 2011

FireOnTheAltar said:

When interpreting this passage, it is helpful to understand what jesus meant by the word "life"

Sin has taken our lives and destroyed it. God gave Adam and eve everything they needed to have the live he so desired to give them, and when sin entered. That life was lost.

even though we will never on Earth have the possibility of having that "life" as the result of the fall is all around us. God has, through the son, given the possibility of restoring that life to the extent possible through his love.

If we want this life, we have to give up self (stop doing things which only are for self gain) and do what God wantsw us to do (do things instead which bless others). In doing so, we will see the joy of life God want to give us.

In other words. If you are only trying to make your life better, thus do not deny yourself, you will never have the life God wants to give you (you will lose it) If you deny yourself. follow Christ (do as he did, which was to live his life serving others) You will find the life God wants you to have.

This is not a salvation issue Jesus was talking about

FireOnTheAltar · Jul 14, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

I totally agree. In my originally posts I talk about how modern Christianity pales in comparison to it's 1st, 2nd and 3rd century counterparts because many have embraced doctrines that eliminate the necessity of dying to one's own selfishness and worldly desires which I truly believe to be why modern believers walk in very little anointing, if any.

As for salvation, again agree. However, I believe that if a person insists that he or she can live however they choose, it's a sure sign that something is really wrong there. While I understand that we all wrestle with various weaknesses, for a person to blatantly and consistantly trample all over the grace in which they have been and / or in turn deny to extend the grace that they have been to others, I have no doubt that this is evidence of a serious underlying heart issue, that is if they are saved at all.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 14, 2011

FireOnTheAltar said:

These people are called "licentious" in scripture. They are said to have "no faith" because they have no works. if one studies james, you will see although they are members of the locla church. many of them might even be teachers or deacons. They are said to be hearers of the word and not doers. They make the poor sit in the back of the church. They do all kinds of things which show they have no changed life. and just do as they please. These people have never felt the love of God. they love self more than they love God, and as Jude says, their destruction has been long before fortold. Unless they humble themselves and come to God. They will never know God, or be saved.

enoch1nine · Jun 23, 2013

I believe post #1 is from making and wearing this:

starfield · Jun 23, 2013

Iyyob, why do you keep resurrecting ancient threads?

Anyway, awesome posts, Crossfire.…(in case yer lurkin’ around

).

OwenHeidenreich · Jun 23, 2013

that was an amazing post that fireonthealtar wrote, its exactly whats been on my heart for so long.

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Modern Christianity: The Real Deal or Doctine(s) of Compromise?

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