Much needed attention

[NazariteNation]

Personally I would like to see a couple of forums / chatrooms added, one reserved for continuationists and another reserved for cessationists. It's hard to ask or answer questions someone may have concerning certain doctrinal beliefs when you have folks from a different belief system barking at you all of the time. It's even harder when when those being critical are moderators looking to push their views on others.

If this website is going to truly flourish then I believe some things need to be accessed and boundaries set. Please keep in mind that according to recent statistics done on Evangelical churches, all Cessationists denominations combined account for less than 250 million members worldwide. On the other hand, Continuationists account for 750 million members wordlwide. Essentially, by embracing one view over another - Particularly Cessationism, your moderators (although on the surface they acts as if they are unbiased) are alienated a huge portion of Evengelical Christians today, especially when you take into consideration that most Continuationists reside in industrialized nations where the internet is easy access.

While I can understand why moderators should be on the look out for various "cultic" religions that are destructive to the core values of the Evangelical christian faith, I feel that they should remain completely unbiased and if they are going to enforce anything it should be to keep the peace between opposing views not siding with one or another.

However, if moderators feel that they should be allowed to share their views, they can do so freely in the newly created designated forums / chats. Although, if such a thing was implemented, I personally would recommend bringing on board new moderators who share the beliefs of the boards they are designated to moderate.

Let's face it, if this site is going to grow, this site needs to at least think about what I have propsed. If not I have a final suggestion... putting together a statement of faith and making sure that all new chatters know that this websites holds to and enforces Cessetionist perspective. You might as well as add "once saved always saved" to that list as well.

 

[1still_waters]

There is only one moderator I know who 'may' be a cessationist and I'm not totally sure about him. He doesn't come around and post much or chat, so I'm assuming this is about me.

I'm NOT a cessationist. I am a 'hey let's try and put the gifts in some 'pespective-ish'.

I don't know who the mods are who are hounding you in the forums.

I know the other day I made a post just asking folks what are the stipulations on who can and can't do stuff regarding to miracles.

I even remember backing up those who said only some have those gifts. I never said it's NOT for today.

Keep in mind, you entered that post of your own free will. No one forced you in to it. Also keep in mind that in that post I simply stated what I wanted to say and then just left and didn't engage in the back and forth and back and forth that so many do. So it's not like you're being barked at continually.

Also keep in mind that I was the only person in that post arguing my perspective! Everyone else pretty much agreed with you!

We already do kind of have a forum where you can go off and only focus on your favorite perspective. It's the chat groups. You actually have one on the spiirit filled life and no mods have 'barked' at you there.

Keep in mind, moderators aren't just 'moderators', we're also people with views and beliefs too. We shouldn't be allowed to state them?

I don't see how a moderator saying things differently than how you view things is any different than another chatter saying things differently than you believe. There is always going to be someone who doesn't believe the same way you do.

If a non-moderator says stuff that you don't believe will you feel alienated too?

Keep in mind, you'd have the right to feel alienated if a moderator banned you, or kicked you, or infractioned you for simply stating things that they disagreed with. I've NEVER done that, unless it's something completely contrary to the core, essential doctrines of our faith.

I don't think chatters should view moderators who disagree with them as some form of alienation. Moderators are people too and we have opinions! We're people too, who want to engage in some debate and discussion. Unless we go penalizing you for disagreeing with us, you really shouldn't feel alienated. You wouldn't feel alienated if any other chatter said stuff you didn't agree with.

Please don't view a moderator stating their opinion as some form of 'enforcement'. It's simply a person who happens to be a mod. stating their opinion. I think I've made it clear many times that I won't ban or kick someone just because they disagree with me.
So nothing is being enforced.

Also, on a daily basis other posters make posts where people bark contrary views at them in reply. None of them has requested a separate forum where they can trumpet their pet view without critique.

I think I hear what you're saying, but please just realize a moderator saying opinions is just a person saying opinions. We're no different than any other 'user' who tries to say stuff. If we went around telling people they'd be banned for disagreeing with us, then yeah, there'd be an issue there. But I think most can testify that they haven't been banned for simply disagreeing.

 

[NazariteNation]

Thanks Merry. I didn't write this post to upset anyone. And I agree that this chat has grown by leaps and bounds since the implementation of the forums. However, I feel this chat has much greater potential.

I do realize that it is Robo's desire to keep the chat Non-Denomination and that's completely understandable. I actually feel that by adding a couple special interest chat rooms / forums like a "Spirit Filled / Full Gospel" or a "Eternal Security / OSAS" room it will benefit the site even more by providing an arguement free enviroment for people to ask questions without the fear of confrontation. It would also eliminate alot of argument in the general chat rooms / forums.

 

[NazariteNation]

There is only one moderator I know who 'may' be a cessationist and I'm not totally sure about him. He doesn't come around and post much or chat, so I'm assuming this is about me.

I'm NOT a cessationist. I am a 'hey let's try and put the gifts in some 'pespective-ish'.

I don't know who the mods are who are hounding you in the forums.

I know the other day I made a post just asking folks what are the stipulations on who can and can't do stuff regarding to miracles.

I even remember backing up those who said only some have those gifts. I never said it's NOT for today.

Keep in mind, you entered that post of your own free will. No one forced you in to it. Also keep in mind that in that post I simply stated what I wanted to say and then just left and didn't engage in the back and forth and back and forth that so many do. So it's not like you're being barked at continually.

Also keep in mind that I was the only person in that post arguing my perspective! Everyone else pretty much agreed with you!

We already do kind of have a forum where you can go off and only focus on your favorite perspective. It's the chat groups. You actually have one on the spiirit filled life and no mods have 'barked' at you there.

Keep in mind, moderators aren't just 'moderators', we're also people with views and beliefs too. We shouldn't be allowed to state them?

I don't see how a moderator saying things differently than how you view things is any different than another chatter saying things differently than you believe. There is always going to be someone who doesn't believe the same way you do.

If a non-moderator says stuff that you don't believe will you feel alienated too?

Keep in mind, you'd have the right to feel alienated if a moderator banned you, or kicked you, or infractioned you for simply stating things that they disagreed with. I've NEVER done that, unless it's something completely contrary to the core, essential doctrines of our faith.

I don't think chatters should view moderators who disagree with them as some form of alienation. Moderators are people too and we have opinions! We're people too, who want to engage in some debate and discussion. Unless we go penalizing you for disagreeing with us, you really shouldn't feel alienated. You wouldn't feel alienated if any other chatter said stuff you didn't agree with.

Please don't view a moderator stating their opinion as some form of 'enforcement'. It's simply a person who happens to be a mod. stating their opinion. I think I've made it clear many times that I won't ban or kick someone just because they disagree with me.
So nothing is being enforced.

Also, on a daily basis other posters make posts where people bark contrary views at them in reply. None of them has requested a separate forum where they can trumpet their pet view without critique.

I think I hear what you're saying, but please just realize a moderator saying opinions is just a person saying opinions. We're no different than any other 'user' who tries to say stuff. If we went around telling people they'd be banned for disagreeing with us, then yeah, there'd be an issue there. But I think most can testify that they haven't been banned for simply disagreeing.

Still, my post wasn't in reference to you specifically and actually had little to do with you in particular. I decided to write about this because it seems like anyone vocalizes any views that contradict a cessationist / eternal security there's always someone around to make a big stink about it, not always mods either. In fact, for a couple weeks, I actually had someone (not a mod) follow me around the forums and would basically bash me because I didn't believe in OSAS in when eternal security wasn't even the topic of discussion. That is the main reason why I decided to post.

In case you haven't noticed, there's bickering of all sorts going on throught out the forums. I strongly suggest considering "special interest" forums and chat, then coming up with and posting a few ground rules about keeping discussions in "General" forums and chat somewhat nuetral. However ifg you feel you must debate your views then feel free to add a "Hot Topics" room designated specifically for debating these touchy issues.

 

[NazariteNation]

With that in mind I would like to suggest "Areas Of Special Interest" to the forums and possibly chat. Three much needed rooms are "Spirit Filled - Full Gospel", "Eternal Security - Once Saved Always Saved", & "Hot Topics - Debate Room"

 

[minnesotablu]

*sigh* there's already so many rooms to try and keep up with! lol it's overwhelming as it is... just my opinion...

 

[NazariteNation]

There is only one moderator I know who 'may' be a cessationist and I'm not totally sure about him. He doesn't come around and post much or chat, so I'm assuming this is about me.

I'm NOT a cessationist. I am a 'hey let's try and put the gifts in some 'pespective-ish'.

I don't know who the mods are who are hounding you in the forums.

I know the other day I made a post just asking folks what are the stipulations on who can and can't do stuff regarding to miracles.

I even remember backing up those who said only some have those gifts. I never said it's NOT for today.

Keep in mind, you entered that post of your own free will. No one forced you in to it. Also keep in mind that in that post I simply stated what I wanted to say and then just left and didn't engage in the back and forth and back and forth that so many do. So it's not like you're being barked at continually.

Also keep in mind that I was the only person in that post arguing my perspective! Everyone else pretty much agreed with you!

We already do kind of have a forum where you can go off and only focus on your favorite perspective. It's the chat groups. You actually have one on the spiirit filled life and no mods have 'barked' at you there.

Keep in mind, moderators aren't just 'moderators', we're also people with views and beliefs too. We shouldn't be allowed to state them?

I don't see how a moderator saying things differently than how you view things is any different than another chatter saying things differently than you believe. There is always going to be someone who doesn't believe the same way you do.

If a non-moderator says stuff that you don't believe will you feel alienated too?

Keep in mind, you'd have the right to feel alienated if a moderator banned you, or kicked you, or infractioned you for simply stating things that they disagreed with. I've NEVER done that, unless it's something completely contrary to the core, essential doctrines of our faith.

I don't think chatters should view moderators who disagree with them as some form of alienation. Moderators are people too and we have opinions! We're people too, who want to engage in some debate and discussion. Unless we go penalizing you for disagreeing with us, you really shouldn't feel alienated. You wouldn't feel alienated if any other chatter said stuff you didn't agree with.

Please don't view a moderator stating their opinion as some form of 'enforcement'. It's simply a person who happens to be a mod. stating their opinion. I think I've made it clear many times that I won't ban or kick someone just because they disagree with me.
So nothing is being enforced.

Also, on a daily basis other posters make posts where people bark contrary views at them in reply. None of them has requested a separate forum where they can trumpet their pet view without critique.

I think I hear what you're saying, but please just realize a moderator saying opinions is just a person saying opinions. We're no different than any other 'user' who tries to say stuff. If we went around telling people they'd be banned for disagreeing with us, then yeah, there'd be an issue there. But I think most can testify that they haven't been banned for simply disagreeing.

I think you'll agree with me on this, that most christians aren't even aware of how many differences there are out there. If you have been primarly one particulat denomination your entire christian walk have have no idea what others believe, to walk into this chat and see all the debating and such is going to blow their minds and discourage them from getting involved.

Also, I'll be completely honest with you. When I first created the Chat Group "Spirit Filled Faith and Fellowship" there were a few people that were excited about it. However, when a big stink was made about just what "Spirit Filled" means and when we had no choice but to allow the very person who seemingly opposes our faith the most to enter the group, people were intimidated and very little interaction occured for fear that what was discussed in the Group would somehow make it out into the public forums / chats.

Seriesously, whenever people have questions regarding certain issues and would like to talk about it on open mic, they basically feel that they must find some abandoned corner of CC to discuss them for fear of public bashing. I pose this question for the mods... how many times have you entered Bible Study or Prayer only for the room to get quiet or there's a quick change of subject even though the people involved are folks who normally have no problem talking with you in the lounge?

 

[1still_waters]

Naz it's funny you say that, because when I post OSAS stuff, i can never find a OSAS person to back me up....I just say that because I find it ironic.

I hear what you're saying about having argument free zones for specific topics and such.

I'm typing this in the tone of voice that is civil and concerned, not in the tone that is in your face and shaking my fist.

My issue is this. Christianity is fragmented into so many denominations. If this board becomes fragmented along the lines of everyone's pet doctrine, then won't the spirit of separation, instead of oneness continue?

Also if you fragment things into specific beliefs, it comes off to me as people retreating to their respective sides so they can amen each other and pat each others backs.

As Grace said a few weeks ago in a post. I don't view people's replies as 'bickering'. I think it's just people being passionate. They're just opinions and I think that's a good perspective to have on it.

If you segment the board in to special interests, then it's just going to be people of the same beliefs amening each other. Aka, preaching to their respective choirs.

I think there isi a reason we have chat groups, so people can go off and kinda do their own thiing, without having to bicker with others. This allows for diversity, without making the site look like it's fragmented along denominational lines.

But then again, like you said, this is Robo's site and he'll figure it out. This is just my two cents.

Robo knows best

 

[1still_waters]

I think you'll agree with me on this, that most christians aren't even aware of how many differences there are out there. If you have been primarly one particulat denomination your entire christian walk have have no idea what others believe, to walk into this chat and see all the debating and such is going to blow their minds and discourage them from getting involved.

Also, I'll be completely honest with you. When I first created the Chat Group "Spirit Filled Faith and Fellowship" there were a few people that were excited about it. However, when a big stink was made about just what "Spirit Filled" means and when we had no choice but to allow the very person who seemingly opposes our faith the most to enter the group, people were intimidated and very little interaction occured for fear that what was discussed in the Group would somehow make it out into the public forums / chats.

Seriesously, whenever people have questions regarding certain issues and would like to talk about it on open mic, they basically feel that they must find some abandoned corner of CC to discuss them for fear of public bashing. I pose this question for the mods... how many times have you entered Bible Study or Prayer only for the room to get quiet or there's a quick change of subject even though the people involved are folks who normally have no problem talking with you in the lounge?

Well the debating might make people blow their minds and get discouraged. But if they come to chat and see tons of fragmented pet beliefs, then it will be apparent that there are tons of fragments in our faith, so they might become discouraged either way!

Hmm there is no requirement to let everyone in to a chat group. Mods needed access for obvious reasons. But I never intended on posting in there, which I think I made clear to you in emails.

I can't say I've ever entered a bible discussion or debate as a moderator and had people shush down because I was there. Most people know I have opinions, but they know they won't be banned for having differing opinions. I know I've entered rooms and had people shush because they were talking about inappropriate things.

As far as people leaving for another room when they want to discuss another topic. Isn't that kind of doing the very thing you suggested? They're segmenting to go talk about their issue.

Also if your issue is so delicate that you don't want someone to speak up about it in a chat room, then maybe you should keep it in PC, or take it to a messenger.

This is a chat room. People are bound to chime in and chat and say stuff.

(the above was all typed in a civil tone)

 

[1still_waters]

And on that note I'm done saying what I need to say.

I was just chiming in with my two cents. I hope me chiming in doesn't discourage any one from posting suggestions. I was just stating my angle on the issue.

 

[Abing]

Perhaps we can focus more on the 'suggestion'
It seems to be a good idea. Coz if you check the bible study forum, LOL you're always gonna notice the debates.
Chatters don't post on there that much coz of the fear to be criticized, persecuted. And it doesn't seem right.
At least with the new rooms/forums, there is a place for everyone (Coz admit it or not, there is always a disagreement on here)
And I think this thread suggests that we can have a place where there is agreement. And for those debate-fans, there is always a room for you.

 

[roaringkitten]

Here is my suggestion. Take my 2 cents please......I would MUCH RATHER speak face to face with someone than having a debate on the forums on issues like eternal security....Because the blogosphere we ALWAYS have the disadvantage of knowing a person's background, knowing where each one is coming from. It's really a guessing game the whole way(the part about a blogger's background and who he is in person). I can word something very badly and make mistakes(I do them all the time!)....It happens all the time, when I mean to convey something and it gets taken the way I did not intent for it to be taken....The big hole in online blogging is that much will be taken out of context by various parties...It is something that is inevitable with the blogosphere.....I have participated in other blogging activities for over 3 yrs(in a weather forum, since my expertise is meteorology). You can just NEVER satify EVERYONE....A three dimensional world is needed(human to human conversation) to best convey anything you say...

Not to say that I necessarily find blogging bad, but there is a point where we all will not be satified......But the fact that some here want to improve CC with suggestions is something to commend them on!!!

The best idea I can come up with is to debate with humility, because we all do not have it completely 100% figured out yet.......I disagree with many people here and I still love them! I dont take it as an offense......It is natural for me to be very concerned about the topic of salvation, and I will get passionate/animated when I sense that something is not right about it....Other than that I pray for this community, that we can reach the lost through our testimonies online!!! God bless!=)

Sorry for the ramble....hehe

 

[NazariteNation]

Here is my suggestion. Take my 2 cents please......I would MUCH RATHER speak face to face with someone than having a debate on the forums on issues like eternal security....Because the blogosphere we ALWAYS have the disadvantage of knowing a person's background, knowing where each one is coming from. It's really a guessing game the whole way(the part about a blogger's background and who he is in person). I can word something very badly and make mistakes(I do them all the time!)....It happens all the time, when I mean to convey something and it gets taken the way I did not intent for it to be taken....The big hole in online blogging is that much will be taken out of context by various parties...It is something that is inevitable with the blogosphere.....I have participated in other blogging activities for over 3 yrs(in a weather forum, since my expertise is meteorology). You can just NEVER satify EVERYONE....A three dimensional world is needed(human to human conversation) to best convey anything you say...

Not to say that I necessarily find blogging bad, but there is a point where we all will not be satified......But the fact that some here want to improve CC with suggestions is something to commend them on!!!

The best idea I can come up with is to debate with humility, because we all do not have it completely 100% figured out yet.......I disagree with many people here and I still love them! I dont take it as an offense......It is natural for me to be very concerned about the topic of salvation, and I will get passionate/animated when I sense that something is not right about it....Other than that I pray for this community, that we can reach the lost through our testimonies online!!! God bless!=)

Sorry for the ramble....hehe

I see your point Roaring however, as a favor to Robo and other chatters, I try to avoid any controversial subjects in chat. I feel like the forums is better suited for those touchy subjects. That way if someone doesn't want to be involved in the conversation they don't have to be. Unlike in chat where almost everyone is included in on the convo.

Besides, typing out a comment gives me time to think about before I toss it out there. *lol* Sometimes the Holy Spirit will even convict me on it. I've also discovered that some folks are pretty adept at leading a conversation... sometimes even into controversey. While I know it's not right to judge another, consiidering the bad fruit that is being sown, sometimes I can't help but question their motives.

 

[roaringkitten]

I would agree with you Naz on that one.....I have even pointed out that the forums are the best way to speak on controversial topics...In chat I have to come up with everything off the top of my head quick or get buried in a hundred posts....So if I were to order the 3 primary ways of communication from the most productive to least I would say:

1)face to face
2)forums
3)chat

 

[Lil_warrior]

I'd agree with that ryan

 

[roaringkitten]

In other words, warrior could have just said everything I just said!!!!hehe

 

[Lil_warrior]

lol i could've but i wouldn't of been happy to type it all

 

[Abing]

lol haha u could give it a try LOL. type those same words, in an -anna-way-
anyways, ... i juz noticed that when we 3 meet each other, we always forget to read the thread title lol
hahaha *before someone kicks us from here* lol

 

[Lil_warrior]

uh oh yeah... hmmm