Obvious Answers

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giantone

Guest
#1
#1
Many times on this forum we ask questions that have obvious answers to them, we already have the answers but need to vent.

My question is: how much sin are we supposed to tolerate in our denomination?

It seems to me that repeatedly when there is an agenda being put forth outside of the Church as well as inside the Church it goes in small steps. At first it looks pretty innocent or not even going in the direction of evil, then it gets a little questionable, where it ends up is it isn't sin anymore.

My Dad goes to the presbyterian church, they used to let homosexuals that don't have any sex be ministers, now they let homosexuals be pastors as long as they are married as well.

You may think this is an easy question to answer, but it seems to me most people would stay in the Church that does this and more. I'm venting.

Once when I was at the church I used to go to (that doesn't exist anymore it got destroyed by the destructive person she was known to have destroyed 5 other churches and still counting i'm sure.) Our old pastor became a full time evangelist and left to protect his wife (he did the right thing).The new pastor that took over was sharing her vision of the church, it had nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality but she was going to allow a person who had a Balaam Jezebel destructive tendency (spirit) back in our church who was kicked out and had a police order to stay out. and this new pastor wasn't going to allow our former pastor's garbage in her pulpit (he preached about seducing spirits and people wanting to manipulate others and have them be the source instead of God.) I wasn't offended but sad because I knew what the outcome would be and had to leave the church I loved so much I left allot of things I loved I left allot but it was the only choice and it was a very easy one to make.

I've read so many things over the years and some of it comes through when I write another question:
What is a deal breaker for you?

In the church I go to right now my pastor preaches the left behind scenario and I don't believe it one bit, but he does preach sin is wrong, wrong, wrong. And for me not agreeing with pre rapture is not a deal breaker.
 
L

lil-rush

Guest
#2
#2
left-behind scenario?

I think if a church preached the prosperity doctrine, I'd leave. I had a bad experience with that at a previous church I grew up in, so I would never want to sit under such heretical teaching again. I personally think false teaching can be much more harmful than sinning, because false teaching can create harmful beliefs in a person's head. This causes people to have false beliefs about God, and when those beliefs are contradicted it leaves the person confused and distrustful of the true power of God.

As to sin, I wouldn't leave right away if it was there, because God might want me to stay to help correct it, or God might be working to correct it while I was there. I would wait on God to see what He would have me do first. I imagine the way it would go is that I would pray about it first, and then approach a deacon. If the Deacon did nothing about it, I would have to approach the head pastor. If the head pastor did nothing about it, I'm guessing that would be God telling me it was time for me to leave the church.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#3
#3
i believe that my breaking point was when my pastor made a close friend of mine cry for about an hour.
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#4
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#4
Close your eyes and run straight ahead!! Stuff going on in the church about makes me want to scream. Things are already really bad.

Gay people can't lead the people. If a church is allowing this they all need to be replace. The people in the pews allowing this will be held accountable by God. I pray they all repent.

A gay person is to be loved but told it is wrong and helped by love and prayers and the word of God. Only God can make them not be gay.

We are not here to be tolorant of everything. The leaders of the churches are some of the worst sinners there are and the people of God need to ask God what to do and then do it.
 
S

Saint

Guest
#5
#5
loveschild said:
Stuff going on in the church about makes me want to scream. Things are already really bad.

Gay people can't lead the people. If a church is allowing this they all need to be replace. The people in the pews allowing this will be held accountable by God. I pray they all repent.

A gay person is to be loved but told it is wrong and helped by love and prayers and the word of God. Only God can make them not be gay.

We are not here to be tolorant of everything. The leaders of the churches are some of the worst sinners there are and the people of God need to ask God what to do and then do it.
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my church doesn't have a problem with tolerance, but more with attacking each other (verbally of course) i know of someone who told my mom that she was a horrible mother for letting me go to the Governor's School. others who have called my brother insults, and even my pastor is guilty of telling someone who is like a sister to me that he doesn't care, and that it isn't his job to talk to her about her problems or help her with them. needless to say, this is my last summer there.

and i agree with the tolerance thing. Have you ever read the Paradise novels by Ted Dekker? In the third book of the series, the destruction of Christianity comes from a wide-spread tolerance that leads to a world where talking about religion outside of your church is considered hate-speech.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#6
#6
I think there are two issues here: at what point does a congregation cease to be a part of the body of Christ and where is the point at which a person cannot tolerate the sin around him or her.
Regarding the first, the acceptance of sin often leads to the preaching of a different gospel. I am not advocating legalism or a beating of the drumhead. But it is dangerous when a church begins to call good "evil" and call "evil" good. In Revelation, Christ says to the church in Ephesus to repent or He will "remove their candlestick", meaning that they would cease to be a church. Indifference to such things can lead to a church ceasing to be a church. I believe there are other things as well, but I do not believe that it happens easily.
Regarding the second, the Bible says to pray for those who sin "not leading to death". It says that we should treat some with grace, snatch others from the fire and some treat with a mixture of fear and grace. So, I see two things at work--personal sensibility/tolerance and discernment. It will vary from person to person.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#7
#7
We are to tolerat NO sin at all. When we see it, we confront the sinner, IN LOVE. If they do not repent, then take another person who is aware of the issue with you and confront the sinner. If they still do not hear it, then you are to go to the church at large....the congregation. If the congregation turns its head and looks the other way, leave that church, they are not of Christ. If the congregation also confronts the sinner and he still does not repent, he should be removed (Pastor or not) from the church.
I know of a pastor that was kicked out of his church. I don't know the reasons, only that it was done by a congregation that did not like something about him, or something that he was or wasn't doing. He underwent NO restoration (but I can't say that I know for sure it was necessary, though where there is smoke...) and then the disctrict office sent him to another town (mine!) in which there was already a church of that denomination that was struggling (financially).

Ironically I hear that that church is growing and mine is not. So what's the deal? Is he tickling ears and people like to giggle...or what? I'm going to go spy on them in the next week or two.
Maggie
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#8
#8
get out yesterday
 
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foreverJaM

Guest
#9
#9
Matthew 24:35-44 (left behind)

35 Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.
36 "However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself.* Only the Father knows.
37 "When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah's day.38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat.39 People didn't realize what was going to happen until the flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.
40 "Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left.41 Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.
 42 "So you, too, must keep watch! For you don't know what day your Lord is coming.43 Understand this: If a homeowner knew exactly when a burglar was coming, he would keep watch and not permit his house to be broken into.44 You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected
 
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