Old covenant vs. new

[agk]

Hi, I am new here. I am trying to figure out what exactly does the new covenant mean? I had thought it meant in the simplest terms there was to be no more shedding of blood in god's name. Does it only refer to sacrifice? And given the new testament does "an eye for an eye" still hold true. I thought Jesus up on the cross made the "laws" of the old testament, null and void......
I am not looking to stir up any trouble, just for a reason to believe....

 

[MaggieMye]

Hebrews 10 will help you to understand the differences beteween the old and new Covenents/Testaments. And while the laws concerning sacrifice are now null and void, there are many OT laws that we should still adhere to. For instance, there is no where in scripture that we are told to no longer celebrated the feasts; the laws concerning farming are still in place even though man is too greedy to follow them (hence the nutritional leaching of the soil and the lower quality of produce). There are many, many 'laws' or maybe a better word would be 'intructions' from God that were in the OT and should still be followed....BECAUSE IT WOULD BENEFIT US TO DO SO. But, now because of Salvation by Grace and through Jesus' death and resurrection, most of them are not a salvation issue....but they ARE quailty of life issues. And it is all a choice to do or not to do.
Maggie

 

[agk]

Thank you, that very clearly answers my question. Much appreciated!

 

[eric51]

Hi, I am new here. I am trying to figure out what exactly does the new covenant mean? I had thought it meant in the simplest terms there was to be no more shedding of blood in god's name. Does it only refer to sacrifice? And given the new testament does "an eye for an eye" still hold true. I thought Jesus up on the cross made the "laws" of the old testament, null and void......
I am not looking to stir up any trouble, just for a reason to believe....

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. The meaning of the Law is now written in our hearts. His teachings, and one's obedience to those teachings, transcends the old Law by giving to us a superior, more charitable understanding of the intent [Love of God and neighbor] behind the Law.

Jesus is the New Covenant.

So, the best answer to your question would be no, "an eye for an eye" is predicated on vengenance, and would not be in keeping with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

In Christ

Amen

 

[Thaddaeus]

Jesus didn't make the old covenant null and void, but rather He fulfilled the law

 

[Chocolate]

Hi, I am new here. I am trying to figure out what exactly does the new covenant mean? I had thought it meant in the simplest terms there was to be no more shedding of blood in god's name. Does it only refer to sacrifice? And given the new testament does "an eye for an eye" still hold true. I thought Jesus up on the cross made the "laws" of the old testament, null and void......
I am not looking to stir up any trouble, just for a reason to believe....

Okay...let me help you out here. Most Christians don't really read their Bible. Let me recommend, taking at least one dose a day...full chapters....7 days a week....along with prayer and fasting.....and fervently seeking God's face. This isn't to be nasty or rude...
Its to help you find out what you believe.

 

[next_step]

Jesus didn't make the old covenant null and void, but rather He fulfilled the law

The new one is much greater, thats why its dangerous to go back to the old one. Thats the message of Hebrews. So we don't need the old one. We are dead to the law and corpses don't stick to the mosaic law.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2,11-13

The grace, the person of Jesus Christ is the guideline. Not a law that can only bring death.

The law is not for us.

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1. Tim 1

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. from Romans 7

There is a huge difference between romans 7 and 8. Just one simple question. What is the most important thing the holy spritit does?

 

[logos83]

Hi, I am new here. I am trying to figure out what exactly does the new covenant mean? I had thought it meant in the simplest terms there was to be no more shedding of blood in god's name. Does it only refer to sacrifice? And given the new testament does "an eye for an eye" still hold true. I thought Jesus up on the cross made the "laws" of the old testament, null and void......
I am not looking to stir up any trouble, just for a reason to believe....

The New Covenant was spoken by Jesus, "(26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take eat; this is my body. (27) And He took the cup, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; (28) For this is is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed forr many for the remission of sins." Matthew 26:26-28 (Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; I Corinthians 11:23-32).

Just as MaggieMye said Hebrews 10 gives a good example of what the New Covenant is, especially verses 14 thru 29. Hebrews 8:10-13 also speaks of this.
Jesus did not do away with the Old Law, But He did free the believers from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:13-14). The law was our schoolmaster to bring unto Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:24). I would recommend reading all of Galatians 3.

I do believe we as believers should try to honor the moarl laws of the Old Testament, but I believe Jesus gave us a New Law to follow that is to Love God, and thy neighbour. (Matthew 22:37-40)
The only way to follow this law is thru the Holy Spirit.
Romans 5:5
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

 

[next_step]

The Old Covenant is 'over' actually and it's not exactly the Law itself.

And yes the Law is still there to condemn people and to show them their situation. But it has no effect on a christian life at all because a believer is dead to this system.

 

[lil-rush]

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. The meaning of the Law is now written in our hearts. His teachings, and one's obedience to those teachings, transcends the old Law by giving to us a superior, more charitable understanding of the intent [Love of God and neighbor] behind the Law.

As a friend of mine loves to point out, Jews were the first to be commanded by their God to treat foreigners/strangers as their neighbor. That would be found in the Laws. Please explain to me what exactly is not charitable about that.

And how exactly could the teaching of Jesus be superior to the words of God? That would be like saying I am superior to me.

I think Jesus helped to redirect people to the original intent of many of the Laws, which is to love God and love ones neighbor, but that does not mean that the Laws did not already direct someone toward doing that.

 

[lil-rush]

The Old Covenant is 'over' actually and it's not exactly the Law itself.

I'm just curious. How can God end a covenant? I mean, I know it isn't as serious as an oath, but still is it really in God's character to make a promise, covenant, oath or anything of the sort and then retract it?

That is one thing about people who don't follow the law that bothers me. I'm sure I'm just getting into semantics, but words like "over", "abolished", etc just don't sit right with me. If you aren't going to follow the Law could you at least use the correct term for your beliefs? Jesus said "Do not think that I cam to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." FULFILL people. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He did not abolish it. He did not replace it. He did not quit it. He fulfilled it.

And yes the Law is still there to condemn people and to show them their situation. But it has no effect on a christian life at all because a believer is dead to this system.

The Law was never there to condemn. What kind of god are you creating to say he would craft laws simply to condemn people? God is just, yes, and vengeful, but not cruel. He is not going to set up something just so He can crush people. I would suggest you return to the OT to see what the actual purpose of the Law was.

Even if a Christian does not follow the Law, the Law had an effect on their life. First off, because people are always throwing out things like "you serve a God that ordered you to stone rebellious children." If you are not acquainted with the Law you would neither know what that person was talking about nor make an educated response to such a comment. It's nice to know your Bible even if you don't think the whole thing applies to you.

 

[eric51]

I'm just curious. How can God end a covenant? I mean, I know it isn't as serious as an oath, but still is it really in God's character to make a promise, covenant, oath or anything of the sort and then retract it?

That is one thing about people who don't follow the law that bothers me. I'm sure I'm just getting into semantics, but words like "over", "abolished", etc just don't sit right with me. If you aren't going to follow the Law could you at least use the correct term for your beliefs? Jesus said "Do not think that I cam to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." FULFILL people. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He did not abolish it. He did not replace it. He did not quit it. He fulfilled it.



The Law was never there to condemn. What kind of god are you creating to say he would craft laws simply to condemn people? God is just, yes, and vengeful, but not cruel. He is not going to set up something just so He can crush people. I would suggest you return to the OT to see what the actual purpose of the Law was.

Even if a Christian does not follow the Law, the Law had an effect on their life. First off, because people are always throwing out things like "you serve a God that ordered you to stone rebellious children." If you are not acquainted with the Law you would neither know what that person was talking about nor make an educated response to such a comment. It's nice to know your Bible even if you don't think the whole thing applies to you.

Whether or not the Covenant is obsolete is a matter of controversy. But the reasoning goes that like all Covenants it was predicated on good faith on both sides. We know God by definition always is honorable but, again the reasoning goes, the Jewish people by their obstinacy in effect showed bad faith, therefore God is not bound [in the sense that God voluntarily binds Himself] any longer by the Covenant.

This is an issue that orthodox Christians disagree. The Church [Catholic Church] has not taken a position on this issue. I do not know about the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Go with God

AMEN

 

[next_step]

I recommend a study of Hebrews and Jeremiah 31. There are convenants with conditions. The new one is unconditional. Furthermore we are never in a covenant relationship with god, we are partakers who benefit (eph 3) from the blessings of the new covenant. But Jeremiah 31 is not already fulfilled. Our relationship is much greater.

@lil-rush

Your views contradict romans, 1. Timothy, galatians etc. It's not the law but it's man. Romans 7.

The OT how it should be viewed:

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come 1. Corinthians 10


And how Paul says. Even David and Abraham did not become righteous because of the law but because of trust and faith in God. That he would fulfill what he promised. And they were in this position because the Lord already "knew about" Calvary. (Romans 3!)

 

[lil-rush]

I recommend a study of Hebrews and Jeremiah 31. There are convenants with conditions. The new one is unconditional. Furthermore we are never in a covenant relationship with God, we are partakers who benefit (eph 3) from the blessings of the new covenant. But Jeremiah 31 is not already fulfilled. Our relationship is much greater.

Even in Jeremiah, God never ended the covenant. Israel and Judah did by being wayward. It's much the same as a spouse ending the covenant of marriage by committing adultery. If one spouse ends the covenant that does not mean the other did.

Your views contradict romans, 1. Timothy, galatians etc. It's not the law but it's man. Romans 7.

Which view? That the Law is still in place? And are you saying my views contradict Romans, the book, or Romans Chapter 1? Because in reading Chapter 1 I'm pretty sure my views don't contradict anything. Which Timothy? 1, 2, or both? And after reading Galatians I'm still trying to sort my thoughts out. Maybe I'll post a thread or something when I answer my own questions. Although, interesting passage from Galations: "Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law." Galations 5:2-3 Yeah... how many Christian men are circumcised, yet are preaching that the Law should no longer be followed?

The OT how it should be viewed:

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come 1. Corinthians 10

Not sure I'm following you.

And how Paul says. Even David and Abraham did not become righteous because of the law but because of trust and faith in God. That he would fulfill what he promised. And they were in this position because the Lord already "knew about" Calvary. (Romans 3!)

Yeah... where did I ever say that one becomes righteous through the Law? It's easier to not sin if one religiously follows the law, but that doesn't make one righteous. No worries on that count, I don't think the Law can make me righteous.

 

[next_step]

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1. Timothy 1,5-10

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

Romans 7,1-4a

We cannot live through the law. Romans 7 makes it so clear. If you want to live you to hold it you fail and fail. Furthermore you bring yourself under a curse, this means no grace and blessings, no fruits, no victory.

Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Galatians 3,10b

It is something else. I don't lie because someone tells me do so or I am a dead person. Actually I am already dead and in my new life holds on to what God demands because I want it.



It is a new principle. The grace.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Titus,11-14

Some christians don't want to understand the difference between Romans 7 and Romans 8.