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M
well the church must really be going to fall away which is scary to think of it getting worse than it allready is.I had some friends who were part of I.H.O.P and they were telling me that amoung a lot of believers who have been spending extrodinary amounts of time in prayer that the rapture will not happen before the antichrist is revealed.I trust and praise God either way so this is not a subject of debate for me,intersting to hear different views however.
D
And what happens when the anti Christ is revealed ....
2th 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2th 2:5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2th 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2th 2:4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2th 2:5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
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M
That's some very good advice MyBagsRPacked...As far as I'm concerned, at this time, I'm a little tired of arguing with ignorance. Although, just to address one of the false issues here, I'll explain why one of you is in error. The falling away has nothing to do with the Christian Church or believers attitute toward Christ. It is a parable and it is explained further in REV. 12. The falling away is when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven after the Rapture. He cannot be revealed to Christians because we won't be present. He will be on Earth for 3.5 years and be a God to unbelievers...I've tried to differentiate between the beast, the false prophet, and Satan; but it doesn't seem to be getting through. Satan is himself. He is the son of perdition. Just as Jesus is God and the Son of God, Satan is the son of perdition. It is a parable. Jesus spoke in parables because all were not supposed to understand. This is why the Bible is a riddle from start to finish...Just because a parable isn't announced and explained in the same chapter does not mean there isn't one...M777
G
so you are saying that Satan is himself and that he is the son of perdition and that he cannot be revealed to Christians because we won't be here.
then what does the Word say:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
so clearly we see that we will still be here to witness this event before we are taken up.
then what does the Word say:
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
so clearly we see that we will still be here to witness this event before we are taken up.
G
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
ummmm, Satan and his followers were cast from heaven before the earth was even created, and I'll say with certainty that he is no longer welcome there....ever!!!
There is NO SIN allowed in Heaven.
And Jesus spoke in parables so that we COULD understand.Te bible is not a riddle if you continue to study and pray over it.
There is NO SIN allowed in Heaven.
And Jesus spoke in parables so that we COULD understand.Te bible is not a riddle if you continue to study and pray over it.
M
That must mean the book of Job is totally wrong in your interpretation. God was talking to Satan in the book of Job. Where do you think God was during this conversation? How could Satan already be kicked out of heaven and still be talking to God? Also, it explicitly says Job was on Earth. The Earth was created long before Job ever existed. In your opinion, Satan could have talked with Job. What is apparent to me is that Satan is aware of things on Earth while still in God's presence. Satan has no power of his own. If God allows, Satan can tempt individuals. If God allows a man to be tried, that's what happens. M777
L
He was cast out way before this. Satan walks on earth where the Holy Spirit is so after you make that connection.... Its pretty simple: remember the story of Eden?
If Satan was still in heaven, he'd be holy unto the Lord, no wicked thing is allowed in heaven. If he were still in heaven during the time of Job, then that would make certain parts of the Bible irrelevant. If he were still in heaven then how could he have tempted Eve? If he weren't on earth, them everything that has happened thus far would not exist.
Also this is true today, the Lord never puts us through something we cannot stand (although we are weak without God). Everything happens for a reason. God does knows and allows the Devil to tempt us in order to grow in our faith and trust in him.
If Satan was still in heaven, he'd be holy unto the Lord, no wicked thing is allowed in heaven. If he were still in heaven during the time of Job, then that would make certain parts of the Bible irrelevant. If he were still in heaven then how could he have tempted Eve? If he weren't on earth, them everything that has happened thus far would not exist.
Also this is true today, the Lord never puts us through something we cannot stand (although we are weak without God). Everything happens for a reason. God does knows and allows the Devil to tempt us in order to grow in our faith and trust in him.
M
You didn't listen to my first answer or you dismissed it. Satan tempted Eve the same way he tempted Job. God allowed him to do it. Satan can do nothing of himself. God knew what he was doing. He allowed Satan to tempt Eve and they both sinned. This was the plan. If there was no sin then Jesus did not have to save us from our sins. Flesh is sin. We are spirits housed in flesh. Heaven is an impossibility for the flesh. Therefore, our flesh dies but Jesus saves our spirit through our belief in him. By this act heaven will be filled to overflowing. The alternative was a heaven that was unattainable to anyone but Jesus or the discarding of all those souls that followed Satan in his rebellion.
Satan's followers are also here on Earth. These are those spirits who worshipped Satan instead of God before the Earth was formed. It is for every man to live in the body once and then go to be with the Lord. Satan's people also get that chance. If you were a believer in Jesus when Satan rebelled you are still going to heaven. You are only here to help those who followed Satan the first time and help them get a second chance. Satan is the only one who was condemned to hell, while his followers are getting a second chance to come home. As you can see, they stiill don't want any part of heaven. Although, if you look around the world you can see how heaven will be a much fuller place. There are Christians of every sort of nationality. Chinese, Arab, African, etc. etc. If you still need more proof that Satan is in heaven, read Revelation 12. He gets kicked out for 3.5 years. He will be a God to all those who have rejected Christ. Satan will not be revealed to Christians as we will be in heaven watching him fall to Earth as he is cast out. The rapture of God's church is first...M777
Satan's followers are also here on Earth. These are those spirits who worshipped Satan instead of God before the Earth was formed. It is for every man to live in the body once and then go to be with the Lord. Satan's people also get that chance. If you were a believer in Jesus when Satan rebelled you are still going to heaven. You are only here to help those who followed Satan the first time and help them get a second chance. Satan is the only one who was condemned to hell, while his followers are getting a second chance to come home. As you can see, they stiill don't want any part of heaven. Although, if you look around the world you can see how heaven will be a much fuller place. There are Christians of every sort of nationality. Chinese, Arab, African, etc. etc. If you still need more proof that Satan is in heaven, read Revelation 12. He gets kicked out for 3.5 years. He will be a God to all those who have rejected Christ. Satan will not be revealed to Christians as we will be in heaven watching him fall to Earth as he is cast out. The rapture of God's church is first...M777
L
I never stated that there was no sin, I just said that Satan was cast out of heaven way before Job's time. If Satan was still in heaven then and now, why would God keep him there? Why would the Lord allow him to stay in heaven being evil? Also God wants us to be prosperous, but he also allows the Devil to tempt us so we can trust in God more. In a way, by the Devil tempting us, he is also belittling God's authority over his children, so why'd he still be in heaven??? Before the fall of man (Adam & Eve) we knew no evils (this includes sin), our flesh is of the earth, which the Devil dwells in.
Perhaps you mean the anti-Christ will not be revealed?
The Hebrew word "Abaddon" and the Greek word "Apollyon" both refer to Satan and are translated "Destroyer." In Revelation, Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit, who during the coming Day of the Lord, will release demons out of the pit (Revelation 9:11).
Throughout the scriptures, Satan's destructive characteristics also gives him the title "the devourer" and "murderer." During the Passover when God delivered the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage, it was the Destroyer who brought death to the first-born (Exodus 12:23). God promised that if we will bring our tithes onto His storehouse, the He would "rebuke the devourer" for our sakes (Malachi 3:10-11). Jesus described him as being a "murder from the beginning" (John 8:44).
It was through Satan that death came into the world. God never intended man to know sorrow, pain, sin, sickness or death. Through his lying, scheming tactics, Satan tempted man to sin, and through man's sin death came (Roman 5:12).
Today, Satan still works on earth as the Destroyer. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil...sin, sickness and death. He shed His blood so we are set free from the power of Satan.
Although in part you are right:
Although Satan fell from his exalted position, and was cast out of God's presence, he still has access into heaven, where he appears before God to bring accusations against God's people (that's why he's also called the accuser, a slanderer).
But all in all, Satan was cast out of heaven a LONG time ago.
Perhaps you mean the anti-Christ will not be revealed?
The Hebrew word "Abaddon" and the Greek word "Apollyon" both refer to Satan and are translated "Destroyer." In Revelation, Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit, who during the coming Day of the Lord, will release demons out of the pit (Revelation 9:11).
Throughout the scriptures, Satan's destructive characteristics also gives him the title "the devourer" and "murderer." During the Passover when God delivered the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage, it was the Destroyer who brought death to the first-born (Exodus 12:23). God promised that if we will bring our tithes onto His storehouse, the He would "rebuke the devourer" for our sakes (Malachi 3:10-11). Jesus described him as being a "murder from the beginning" (John 8:44).
It was through Satan that death came into the world. God never intended man to know sorrow, pain, sin, sickness or death. Through his lying, scheming tactics, Satan tempted man to sin, and through man's sin death came (Roman 5:12).
Today, Satan still works on earth as the Destroyer. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil...sin, sickness and death. He shed His blood so we are set free from the power of Satan.
Although in part you are right:
Although Satan fell from his exalted position, and was cast out of God's presence, he still has access into heaven, where he appears before God to bring accusations against God's people (that's why he's also called the accuser, a slanderer).
But all in all, Satan was cast out of heaven a LONG time ago.
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