Palest. Minister - Peace Deal Would Be Temporary Arrangement Before Conquering Israel

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Graybeard

Guest
#1


As Secretary of State John Kerry pushes full steam ahead to try to bring the Israelis and Palestinian back to the negotiation table, a new video is casting doubt regarding true Palestinian intentions and tactics. Palestinian Authority Minister of Religious Affairs Mahmoud Al-Habbash in an on-camera sermon on Friday hinted any peace deal secured would secretly be only a short-term arrangement by comparing it to a truce the Muslim prophet Mohammed negotiated but broke two years later.

This is just the latest example of Palestinian leaders discussing their stepwise plan to liberate Palestine from the “river to the sea,” starting with the late Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat.

At the Friday Ramadan services, which were attended by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and broadcast on Palestinian television, Habbash explained to Muslim worshipers that Palestinian Authority officials “only through the wisdom of the leadership, conscious action, consideration, and walking the right path” are headed toward “achievement, exactly like the Prophet [Mohammad] did in the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, even though some opposed it.”

Palestinian Media Watch – an Israeli research institution that translates anti-Israel broadcasts in the Palestinian media – explains that the Hudaybiyyah peace treaty of 628 A.D. refers to “a 10-year truce that Mohammad, Islam’s Prophet, made with the Quraish Tribe of Mecca. However, two years into the truce, Mohammad attacked and conquered Mecca.”

The Religious Affairs Minister emphasized that Mohammed’s choosing the path of negotiation with an enemy was not “disobedience” to Allah, but was rather “politics” and “crisis management.”

Indeed, he broke the peace treaty two years later and conquered Mecca.

The Palestinian minister called Mohammed’s example “the model” to be followed.

According to a transcript provided by Palestinian Media Watch, Habbash explained how Mohammed’s followers who weren’t enlightened as to his true intentions were upset. “The hearts of the Prophet’s companions burned with anger and fury. The Prophet said: ‘I’m the Messenger of Allah and I will not disobey Him.’ This is not disobedience, it is politics. This is crisis management, situation management, conflict management,” Habbash said, adding, “Allah called this treaty a clear victory.”

In his sermon, Habbash made a distinction between the Palestinian Authority strategy and Hamas which rules Gaza, saying “All this never would have happened through Hamas’ impulsive adventure.” In his speech, he insisted that “We hate war. We don’t want war. We don’t want bloodshed, not for ourselves, nor for others. We want peace.”

The Palestinian Authority has been insisting to Kerry that it will only negotiate on the basis of the pre-1967 borders, which means it refuses to agree to anything less than a full Israeli withdrawal from Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and east Jerusalem, including the Old City, the Western Wall and the Temple Mount which is the holiest site in the Jewish religion. Some Israeli officials refer to those borders as “Auschwitz borders,” because it would leave Israel only nine miles wide at its narrowest point.

If Palestinian officials say this is just a stepping stone, the suggestion is that the true goal is to take over all of the land of Israel as part of a future Palestinian state. Note the Palestinian Authority is considered by the U.S. and Europe to be the more moderate Palestinian leadership, as opposed to the Islamist Hamas which states openly that its goal is to destroy the State of Israel.

PMW writes, “Since the signing of the Oslo Accords, there have been senior PA officials who have presented the peace process with Israel as a deceptive tactic that both facilitated the PA’s five-year terror campaign against Israel (the Intifada), and which will weaken Israel through territorial compromise that will eventually lead to Israel’s destruction.”

In an article discussing Friday’s sermon, Palestinian Media Watch provided past quotes from Palestinian officials touting the same piecemeal peace negotiations tactic.

In 1994, Arafat also compared the Olso Accords to the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah saying, “This agreement [the Oslo Accords], I am not considering it more than the agreement which had been signed between our Prophet Mohammad and Quraish…”

Arafat was speaking at a mosque in Johannesburg and did not know that he was being recorded on audiotape.

Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki in 2011 tried to calm critics of the peace agreement with Israel, explaining, “the President [Mahmoud Abbas] understands, we understand, and everyone knows that it is impossible to realize the inspiring idea, or the great goal in one stroke.”

“If I say that I want to remove it [Israel] from existence, this will be great, great, [but] it is hard. This is not a [stated] policy. You can’t say it to the world. You can say it to yourself,” Zaki told Al Jazeera.

Palestinian Authority Representative for Jerusalem Affairs Faisal Husseini said in 2001, “This effort [the Intifada] could have been much better, broader, and more significant had we made it clearer to ourselves that the Oslo agreement, or any other agreement, is just a temporary procedure, or just a step towards something bigger.”

“We distinguish the strategic, long-term goals from the political staged goals, which we are compelled to temporarily accept due to international pressure. … [Palestine] according to the higher strategy [is]: ‘from the river to the sea.’ Palestine in its entirety is an Arab land, the land of the Arab nation,” Husseini added.





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leonardronaldo

Guest
#2
this is Islam at its best.
lol
Islam's problem is not with the so called Israel occupancy. It is with the Jews.
so even if Israel give up the land, will they stop attacking?
Islam says no.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#3
this is Islam at its best.
lol
Islam's problem is not with the so called Israel occupancy. It is with the Jews.
so even if Israel give up the land, will they stop attacking?
Islam says no.
Well history seems to disagree with you big L.

Perhaps look at the treatment of Jews by the Romans in the first 6 centuries. You could find out who let them back into Jerusalem. You should look at what happened to the Jews after the first and second crusade. See what lands the Jews went to when they were escaping for their lives from the Spainish inquisition.

You may also want to ask yourself whythe Jews of Iran refuse to go to Israel even when offered cash to move.

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | guardian.co.uk

Here is an excerpt

The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran's 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel's official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora.
However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as "immature political enticements" and said their national identity was not for sale.
 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#4
Well history seems to disagree with you big L.

Perhaps look at the treatment of Jews by the Romans in the first 6 centuries. You could find out who let them back into Jerusalem. You should look at what happened to the Jews after the first and second crusade. See what lands the Jews went to when they were escaping for their lives from the Spainish inquisition.

You may also want to ask yourself whythe Jews of Iran refuse to go to Israel even when offered cash to move.

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | guardian.co.uk

Here is an excerpt

The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran's 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel's official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora.
However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as "immature political enticements" and said their national identity was not for sale.
the Jews don't realize the danger and fire they are playing with.
hmm, and notice i said ISLAM's problem. not Muslim's problem. i could care less with every Muslims making their own different opinions.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#5
the Jews don't realize the danger and fire they are playing with.
hmm, and notice i said ISLAM's problem. not Muslim's problem. i could care less with every Muslims making their own different opinions.
I see you are just shooting from the hip again. OK I think I have established you have a closed mind.
 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#6
I see you are just shooting from the hip again. OK I think I have established you have a closed mind.
A Closed Mind? Is that like a challenge to prove from Islamic text again or what? You know well in the thread before I gave all the references to what I claim to you, so stop calling me a closed minded people. I could easily call you the same, for still stand on that death cult despite all the prove.
Btw, I don't need shooting from the hip since I am saying the Truth. And ALLAH and MUHAMMAD need to be ready for that Truth.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#7
A Closed Mind? Is that like a challenge to prove from Islamic text again or what? You know well in the thread before I gave all the references to what I claim to you, so stop calling me a closed minded people. I could easily call you the same, for still stand on that death cult despite all the prove.
Btw, I don't need shooting from the hip since I am saying the Truth. And ALLAH and MUHAMMAD need to be ready for that Truth.
Hi LR

Definition of closed mind

Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.

I provided proof that Jews actually had a better deal in Islamic land. It was the Muslims that allowed the Jews back into Jerusalem. It was the Islamic lands that Jews ran to to escape persecution. Even today there are 25,000 Jews in Iran that choose to stay there and refuse to go to Israel even with large cash incentives. What was your reply.

the Jews don't realize the danger and fire they are playing with.
hmm, and notice i said ISLAM's problem. not Muslim's problem. i could care less with every Muslims making their own different opinions.
I provided new ideas and you rejected within minutes of my post. I am guessing now you may be scrambling in google trying to get info to support your position. lol

It is the wrong way around. The way a open minded person works is he receives new ideas and then reevaluates his position. If he does not accept the idea then he will reply with reasons why he does not accept it. Things like "ISLAM's problem" does not cut it.

“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Isaac Asimov

I suggest you start scrubbing those windows.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#8
Just to recap LR. Just to avoid the constant subject changes that occurred in the previous thread.

You stated

this is Islam at its best.
lol
Islam's problem is not with the so called Israel occupancy. It is with the Jews.
so even if Israel give up the land, will they stop attacking?
Islam says no.
I have provided proof your position is wrong. In the early days of Islam when Muslims were following it much more closely, relations were better with the Jews. Not perfect but better. In the last couple of centuries Muslims have moved away from Islam and we have lost God's blessing. We were thrown out of the promised land as punishment.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#9
The irony is that Israel is expected to make peace deals with these groups that can't even be at peace amongst themselves.
Hamas/PLO, Shiites/Sunni, bloodbath in Syria, Kosovo, etc.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#10
The irony is that Israel is expected to make peace deals with these groups that can't even be at peace amongst themselves.
Hamas/PLO, Shiites/Sunni, bloodbath in Syria, Kosovo, etc.
My understanding he is seeking a peace deal with the Palestinians people which include Christians.

Palestinian Christians React to Israeli Ambassador’s Claims about Holy Land Churches - Munther Isaac | God's Politics Blog | Sojourners

This is a serious issue for Palestinian Christians. We are not saying that radical Islam is not a threat. We are not denying that there are some struggles that we face as a minority. We are not denying that there are some incidences in which Christians were attacked by radical Muslims, like in the death of Rami Ayyad in Gaza.

What we are saying, is that for us, the real issue and the core of our struggles is the Israeli occupation.


It seems Israel is more important to some Christians than other Christians.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#11
The irony is that Israel is expected to make peace deals with these groups that can't even be at peace amongst themselves.

Hamas/PLO, Shiites/Sunni, bloodbath in Syria, Kosovo, etc.
hey crossnote...let's make sure we know what's going on here.
who keeps stirring up trouble and carving up (balkanizing) the region?

1st:

Kosovo:



Washington gets a new colony in the Balkans

By Sara Flounders

Global Research, February 28, 2008
International Action Center 21 February 2008
Region: Europe
In-depth Report: THE BALKANS


In evaluating the recent “declaration of independence” by Kosovo, a province of Serbia, and its immediate recognition as a state by the U.S., Germany, Britain and France, it is important to know three things.

First, Kosovo is not gaining independence or even minimal self-government. It will be run by an appointed High Representative and bodies appointed by the U.S., European Union and NATO. An old-style colonial viceroy and imperialist administrators will have control over foreign and domestic policy. U.S. Imperialism has merely consolidated its direct control of a totally dependent colony in the heart of the Balkans.

Second, Washington’s immediate recognition of Kosovo confirms once again that U.S. Imperialism will break any and every treaty or international agreement it has ever signed, including agreements it drafted and imposed by force and violence on others.

The recognition of Kosovo is in direct violation of such law—specifically U.N. Security Council Resolution 1244, which the leaders of Yugoslavia were forced to sign to end the 78 days of NATO bombing of their country in 1999. Even this imposed agreement affirmed the “commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity” of Serbia, a republic of Yugoslavia.

This week’s illegal recognition of Kosovo was condemned by Serbia, Russia, China and Spain.

Thirdly, U.S. Imperialist domination does not benefit the occupied people. Kosovo after nine years of direct NATO military occupation has a staggering 60 percent unemployment rate. It has become a center of the international drug trade and of prostitution rings in Europe.

The once humming mines, mills, smelters, refining centers and railroads of this small resource-rich industrial area all sit silent. The resources of Kosovo under NATO occupation were forcibly privatized and sold to giant Western multinational corporations. Now almost the only employment is working for the U.S./NATO army of occupation or U.N. Agencies.

The only major construction in Kosovo is of Camp Bondsteel, the largest U.S. Base built in Europe in a generation.Halliburton, of course, got the contract. Camp Bondsteel guards the strategic oil and transportation lines of the entire region.

Over 250,000 Serbian, Romani and other nationalities have been driven out of this Serbian province since it came under U.S./NATO control. Almost a quarter of the Albanian population has been forced to leave in order to find work.

Establishing a colonial administration

Consider the plan under which Kosovo’s “independence” is to happen. Not only does it violate U.N. Resolutions but it is also a total colonial structure. It is similar to the absolute power held by L. Paul Bremer in the first two years of the U.S. Occupation of Iraq.

How did this colonial plan come about? It was proposed by the same forces responsible for the breakup of Yugoslavia and the NATO bombing and occupation of Kosovo.

In June of 2005, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan appointed former Finnish President Marti Ahtisaari as his special envoy to lead the negotiations on Kosovo’s final status. Ahtisaari is hardly a neutral arbitrator when it comes to U.S. Intervention in Kosovo. He is chairman emeritus of the International Crisis Group (ICG), an organization funded by multibillionaire George Soros that promotes NATO expansion and intervention along with open markets for U.S. And E.U. Investment.

The board of the ICG includes two key U.S. Officials responsible for the bombing of Kosovo: Gen. Wesley Clark and Zbigniew Brzezinski. In March 2007, Ahtisaari gave his Comprehensive Proposal for Kosovo Status Settlement to the new U.N. Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon.

The documents setting out the new government for Kosovo are available at unosek.org/unosek/en/statusproposal.HTML. A summary is available on the U.S. State Department’s Web site at state.gov/p/eur/rls/fs/100058.htm

An International Civilian Representative (ICR) will be appointed by U.S. And E.U. Officials to oversee Kosovo. This appointed official can overrule any measures, annul any laws and remove anyone from office in Kosovo. The ICR will have full and final control over the departments of Customs, Taxation, Treasury and Banking.

The E.U. Will establish a European Security and Defense Policy Mission (ESDP) and NATO will establish an International Military Presence. Both these appointed bodies will have control over foreign policy, security, police, judiciary, all courts and prisons. They are guaranteed immediate and complete access to any activity, proceeding or document in Kosovo.

These bodies and the ICR will have final say over what crimes can be prosecuted and against whom; they can reverse or annul any decision made. The largest prison in Kosovo is at the U.S. Base, Camp Bondsteel, where prisoners are held without charges, judicial overview or representation.

The recognition of Kosovo’s “independence” is just the latest step in a U.S. war of reconquest that has been relentlessly pursued for decades.

Divide and rule

The Balkans has been a vibrant patchwork of many oppressed nationalities, cultures and religions. The Socialist Federation of Yugoslavia, formed after World War II, contained six republics, none of which had a majority. Yugoslavia was born with a heritage of antagonisms that had been endlessly exploited by the Ottoman Turks, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and interference by British and French imperialism, followed by Nazi German and Italian Fascist occupation in World War II.

The Jewish and Serbian peoples suffered the greatest losses in that war. A powerful communist-led resistance movement made up of all the nationalities, which had suffered in different ways, was forged against Nazi occupation and all outside intervention. After the liberation, all the nationalities cooperated and compromised in building the new socialist federation.

In 45 years the Socialist Federation of Yugoslavia developed from an impoverished, underdeveloped, feuding region into a stable country with an industrial base, full literacy and health care for the whole population.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, the Pentagon immediately laid plans for the aggressive expansion of NATO into the East. Divide and rule became U.S. policy throughout the entire region. Everywhere right-wing, pro-capitalist forces were financed and encouraged. As the Soviet Union was broken up into separate, weakened, unstable and feuding republics, the Socialist Federation of Yugoslavia tried to resist this reactionary wave.

In 1991, while world attention was focused on the devastating U.S. bombing of Iraq, Washington encouraged, financed and armed right-wing separatist movements in the Croatian, Slovenian and Bosnian republics of the Yugoslav Federation. In violation of international agreements Germany and the U.S. gave quick recognition to these secessionist movements and approved the creation of several capitalist ministates.

At the same time U.S. finance capital imposed severe economic sanctions on Yugoslavia to bankrupt its economy. Washington then promoted NATO as the only force able to bring stability to the region.

The arming and financing of the right-wing UCK movement in the Serbian province of Kosovo began in this same period. Kosovo was not a distinct republic within the Yugoslav Federation but a province in the Serbian Republic. Historically, it had been a center of Serbian national identity, but with a growing Albanian population.

Washington initiated a wild propaganda campaign claiming that Serbia was carrying out a campaign of massive genocide against the Albanian majority in Kosovo. The Western media was full of stories of mass graves and brutal rapes. U.S. officials claimed that from 100,000 up to 500,000 Albanians had been massacred.

U.S./NATO officials under the Clinton administration issued an outrageous ultimatum that Serbia immediately accept military occupation and surrender all sovereignty or face NATO bombardment of its cities, towns and infrastructure. When, at a negotiation session in Rambouillet, France, the Serbian Parliament voted to refuse NATO’s demands, the bombing began.

In 78 days the Pentagon dropped 35,000 cluster bombs, used thousands of rounds of radioactive depleted-uranium rounds, along with bunker busters and cruise missiles. The bombing destroyed more than 480 schools, 33 hospitals, numerous health clinics, 60 bridges, along with industrial, chemical and heating plants, and the electrical grid. Kosovo, the region that Washington was supposedly determined to liberate, received the greatest destruction.

Finally on June 3, 1999, Yugoslavia was forced to agree to a ceasefire and the occupation of Kosovo.

Expecting to find bodies everywhere, forensic teams from 17 NATO countries organized by the Hague Tribunal on War Crimes searched occupied Kosovo all summer of 1999 but found a total of only 2,108 bodies, of all nationalities. Some had been killed by NATO bombing and some in the war between the UCK and the Serbian police and military. They found not one mass grave and could produce no evidence of massacres or of “genocide.”

This stunning rebuttal of the imperialist propaganda comes from a report released by the chief prosecutor for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, Carla Del Ponte. It was covered, but without fanfare, in the New York Times of Nov. 11, 1999.

The wild propaganda of genocide and tales of mass graves were as false as the later claims that Iraq had and was preparing to use “weapons of mass destruction.”

Through war, assassinations, coups and economic strangulation, Washington has succeeded for now in imposing neoliberal economic policies on all of the six former Yugoslav republics and breaking them into unstable and impoverished ministates.

The very instability and wrenching poverty that imperialism has brought to the region will in the long run be the seeds of its undoing. The history of the achievements made when Yugoslavia enjoyed real independence and sovereignty through unity and socialist development will assert itself in the future.

Sara Flounders, co-director of the International Action Center, traveled to Yugoslavia during the 1999 U.S. bombing and reported on the extent of the U.S. attacks on civilian targets. She is a co-author and editor of the books: “Hidden Agenda—U.S./NATO Takeover of Yugoslavia” and “NATO in the Balkans.”

Washington gets a new colony in the Balkans | Global Research < click

...

Goran Stojcik, a Macedonian ambulance driver who worked in the refugee camps during the war, testified under oath at the Hague Tribunal that he had eye-witnessed Western news crews stage-managing fake news footage in the refugee camps. He said, "CNN was the most prominent in stage managing things that were to be filmed." He gave examples of news crews coaching refugees on how to act in front of the cameras. In one example, he said a news crew threw a refugee child into the mud to make him cry for the camera.

On another occasion, he said his colleague's medical supplies were stolen so a perfectly healthy man could be wrapped in bandages and placed on a stretcher to be portrayed as wounded in front of the TV cameras. At a minimum, the media was Quick to report accusations against the Serbs that later turned out not to be true. There were reports that the Serbs were running a concentration camp at the Pristina soccer stadium, and that they were butchering Albanians by the thousands and burning their remains in the Trepca mining complex, but NONE of it turned out to be true. We were conned into being the KLA's air force.

Rewarding terrorism, deception in Kosovo < click

......


what is Madeline Albright (and others like her) doing profiting from it all (AS USUAL)?

......

"Recently, however, Albright and others have commenced new efforts at involvement in Kosovo that left local people concerned about the intentions of their benefactors of more than a decade past. In The New York Times on December 12, Matthew Brunwasser wrote under a page-one headline, "That Crush at Kosovo's Business Door? The Return of U.S. Heroes." The Times account described Albright and James W. Pardew, a special envoy sent to the Balkans by President Bill Clinton, offering competing bids for privatization of the Kosovo state postal and telecommunications agency, known as PTK (from its Albanian and Serbian initials).

General Wesley Clark, chairman of Envidity, a Canadian firm interested in Kosovo's coal mines and potential for synthetic fuel production, has also gone to Kosovo in search of financial advantage. But Albright's involvement has given her the highest profile in the discussion of Kosovo's economic future. According to the Times, "Albright Capital Management, founded by Ms. Albright, has been shortlisted in the bidding for a 75 % share in… PTK." The Times estimates the probable payout to Kosovo political leaders for PTK, if a deal is consummated, at "between $400 million and $800 million." Officials of another Albright entity, Albright Stonebridge Group, have a minor share in PTK's only competitor, the private company IPKO, based in Slovenia. Times correspondent Brunwasser wrote that the situation could "threaten… market competition if Ms. Albright's consortium wins the bid" for PTK.

When Albright and other humanitarian liberators appear in Kosovo as "privatizers," questions are bound to be asked. Although "entrepreneurship" usually means investment and expansion of commerce, in the absence of a secure domestic financial system and other guarantees for legitimate and desirable foreign ventures, Kosovo's economy continues to shrink. As a prominent Democrat and Clinton administration figure, Albright is associated with that party's strident rhetoric against the free market in the 2012 American presidential election, including allegations of Republican corporate looting and similar "heartless" practices."

"Privatizing" Kosovo: The Madeleine Albright Way :: Gatestone Institute < click

......

American and European officials helped Thaci first, then developed their own business in Kosovo

Ivana Mastilovic Jasnic | 21. 08. 2012.
Numerous international officials who were on temporary duty in Kosovo as representatives of the EU or UN have returned into Serbian southern province and developed their private businesses there. This practice has become a rule. The spheres of their interest go from construction, via naphtha to telecommunications.

......

SAME OLD STORY!!!

THE USUAL SUSPECTS!