Pondering Revival of the saints.

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Rhomphaeam

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#1
Revival is a term that many saints hold to, to look for an answer to their own lives, as well as the lives of other saints. The emphasis is sometimes broader and includes a revival of society generally.

The question we may need to ask ourselves however is, how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society. When we examine the lives of the past saints after revival and restoration – also how society was changed after improvement – what will we see in the years that followed? We must be honest, and we must look. It is essential that when we do this, we also realise that the revivals that we can examine do not speak of the condition of today. They talk about the day in which they happened. And whilst they carry into the decades after revival, they are still outwith the day we live in. So whatever we do learn by looking at revival in the past, we must always hold to the condition of the day we live in to express our hope.

If we take the Welsh revival of 1904/5 then we would speak of Evan Roberts as a focus for research, of China, we would talk of Watchman Nee and Scotland we would talk of Duncan Campbell. The one fact that separates these three revivals of God is so sobering that we cannot ignore it, and must say it from the very outset. China has never ceased to be revived – even when persecution was most present. Wales fell into death and moral depravity after revival. The Isle of Lewis fell back into darkness. Indeed Lewis is a very sobering account, and I could personally speak in terms witnessed in my walk, after revival, that would give us cause to tremble. Whereas China has remained on fire even during the most severe persecution.

How it is that all of God's sovereign work in revival of the saints can be so characteristically similar, so that almost every revival not only comes to an end but that its finale also marks the beginning of darkness once again, we would have to realise that the reason is because whilst God is sovereign in revival, his workmen are in authority in the Church. We do not have room here to explain this in great detail. What we can say is:

All revivals begin with a few men and women who pray, intercede and groan for the hand of God on his people, and they are all primarily directed at the condition of the churches, yet realising that the churches will be filled with new believers if revival comes. When that is established there is always God's promise on those few people. When the time comes for revival, that promise is held before God, and He is courageously asked to meet His part in that agreement.

Duncan Campbell reported that seventy percent of all the people who were saved in the revival of the Outer Hebrides were saved with no intervention of men. They neither heard the gospel, nor were witnessed to, neither did any man or woman direct them, neither could they explain how they came to be acting as they did when they gathered in hundreds outside churches, in fields, and homes, and outside police stations. All they knew was that they were taken by a means in which God did not contradict their needs, yet their needs were not met until God finished with them. They fell in fields whilst at work on the harvest, fell into ditches whilst going to social events, and were ministered to by children and by anyone who it pleased God to bring to them in their moment of salvation. Entire villages were swept by the hand of God and buildings were shaken, children were caught up in a triumph of obedience, and the Kingdom of Heaven was evidenced in such children, for as it is written, of such as these is the Kingdom of Heaven. God has perfected His praise in children.

It is no wonder that we see revival of God as an answer to the church and the nation. However, what we also need to know is that both in China in the late forties and early nineteen fifties, in Lewis in the late forties and into the fifties, as well as Wales in the first decade of the twentieth century, it was the Church and not merely the world that brought harm, injury and imprisonment of the benefit of revival by the means of men's weakness, by bitterness, by jealousy and by an instrument and effect of Satan. Some were falsely imprisoned by accusations, doctrine and unimaginable spiritual rebellion. In Lewis, doors were thrown shut in some churches as a real and visible rebellion, and the cry was to refuse God and despise His mercy.

The Mercy of God

Some of this rebellion was dealt with in the same way that God deals with all uprising in revival, He shows mercy and men are changed and become His true workmen. Committees and agreements, and an organised rebellion are evidenced in a time of revival, by the church. Moreover, when the hand of God is passed, it is the church that imprisons those who have been saved, so that by a jealousy of men, babes in Christ are set in chains. The same thing happened in China, and whilst others would be better witnessing of Wales, the same thing happened in Wales, also.
So here is the difference in China.

Before revival came, a few men and a few sisters were obedient. They laboured in their ministries, through their books and in their teachings all that which would be necessary for China, once Satan had the hand of imprisonment. Satan persecuted those men and women, when they bore in their bodies the cost – when they were despised by many, rejected by many, and where believers who could not be as they were, yielded to Communism – betrayed them – becoming slaves to oppression Their obedience, in books, prayers, fasting, teaching and suffering, laid a foundation. When the time of tribulation came, they paid a further price, and many gave their lives. All others who are appointed to salvation – and the church which is called to be Holy, as God is Holy – could endure unimaginable trials, to be always revived. In truth, their work was broader and deeper in preparation for revival, and so when it came, they were already in that crowd of witnesses and not a voice in the midst. Many of them never saw revival other than in a modest way of evangelism. Revival came after decades of Communist oppression, yet even those who were saved and nurtured in their day survived, and went underground. It has been their obedience based on the efforts and faithfulness of a few others before them that has given the revived church in China its ability to stay revived. At the heart of the labour of these early men and women, from the mid nineteen twenties, through to the early nineteen fifties, there has been one undoubted character. They embraced the cross unto death. And those who have followed them have remained in that same obedience.

To demonstrate this principle from the Scripture: Christ says:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself."

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, "I thirst!" Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

Then we read:

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church."

If we can fathom how it is that in Christ all men are included in His death and that He says, "It is finished!" And how Paul agrees with his inclusion in Christ's death, yet speaks that he fills up that which is lacking, or else behind in Christ's suffering, then we can understand the difference between the church in China and the churches in other places. If not then we are destined to see revival and little lasting effect. In that outcome, we will be changed for an hour and perhaps no more than that. Whereas we live at the end of the age and we must be changed permanently otherwise we will be caught up in unnecessary suffering, and may even betray Christ as some did in China, when others paid a full price of obedience, and through their willingness, the church in China has seen the fullest revival in any place.

Rhomphaeam
 

Rhomphaeam

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#2

Video posted for reference to subject source regarding the central claim of revival in China.

"In very different ways, Lin Pu-chi and Watchman Nee built a religious foundation that would prove to be sturdy enough to support the religious revival in China today. "Lin, Jennifer. Shanghai Faithful: Betrayal and Forgiveness in a Chinese Christian Family (p. 273). Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Robert Chisholm (below)

It is this statement by Jennifer Lin that I wish to speak about when I say, others paid a full price of obedience, and through their willingness, the church in China has seen the fullest revival in any place. (last paragraph - opening post page).

Perhaps unexpectedly I am also mindful of Lin Pu-chi, because although he represents, in his day, the Anglican Church, his sincere faith reveals the mercy of God. In revival, God will speak to His whole house. He will use those men who are steadfast. And despite their failings, he will speak to all of his children. Lin Pu-chi to the Formal House, and Watchman Nee to the Informal House. This is a picture, and it is a reality of the present day, in China. If we are faithful, then it will become a testimony in our nation also.

When we speak of the cost of laying hold of the foundation of Christ Jesus, it may not be apparent what that means. Perhaps we would be inclined to think of the cost associated with being a Christian in a society that is becoming increasingly hostile to biblical truth. On the other hand, we may think about ourselves, and how we have been treated by other Christians. The first cost here is not apparent to many believers, especially in a western world where well-being tends to be associated with the property of personal possessions, and therefore where possessions give us a misguided sense of self-worth. Yet for all that, we may sense the difficulty that lies ahead if the direction of society continues as it is. The second cost is easier to understand if we have experienced wrongdoing through the Church, and where that wrongdoing has damaged our faith. Even in this regard, however, it may not be as clear to us as we think.

Another reality can be how life itself has treated us. This may include many experiences in our childhood, which whilst they are common in others experience, nevertheless in our own lives weigh us down. Most often this childhood experience falls into the realm of its psychological meaning, even when we learn later on that what we experienced as children may have had a spiritual implication of harm. The significant problem we have today, is not a lack of empathy with our childhood experiences, especially when they took the form of sexual abuse, physical and even mental abuse. It is merely that society does not have a spiritual remedy for these things and so promotes a psychological cure instead. What we can easily miss is that God does not give psychological solutions to our lives, He gives us a spiritual remedy.

Of Visions & Hope

The fact of the ministry and work of Christ through the Cross, and the shedding of His blood for sin, is the separating effect from sin, and the body of sin. We all too quickly see the blood, and that we are redeemed by it, but we miss the cross and its other meaning. It is not simply the blood of Christ shed for sin, which speaks of a propitiation, it is also death, which speaks of an end to real sin. You cannot take a dead man to the public-house for a drink – even when he was given over to its effect in his life. Dead men cannot drink.

Before we are destroyed by the sins into which we so easily fall when we are injured in life, and before we condemn others who stumble, we need to see that Romans chapter six, seven and eight lay down the fuller reality of our necessary walk if we are to be found faithful when we meet the Lord. The only remedy that God has given for physical sin in our lives is the cross. We also need to comprehend that in His mercy, God has also given us men and women, who though they also stumble, and through their stumbling, they cause others to stumble in season; nevertheless, they are given as examples and ministers through whom we can grow.

The foundation that is laid is Christ, and the House that is being built is by the apostles and prophets, wherein Christ is the chief cornerstone. In Lewis and Wales, in revival there is no escaping that once Duncan Campbell and Evan Roberts were finished, very soon the church was brought back into imprisonment by others, and society was eventually brought back into darkness. When the hand of God passed by, then the effect of God is managed by the church. It is all the church. And we must see that whilst Duncan Campbell and Evan Roberts were not themselves guilty of any great sin, in China, Watchman Nee was dragged into prison and accused of every sin possible. He bore with that reproach and regardless of any sin that was to his account, his work and his books, as well the personal witness of those who knew him intimately, has given us a confident example of how God produces revival and continues in it through those men and women. As we seek God to address our own time, and the churches in our dominion we must learn from those whom God has given us.

It is a testimony to the goodness and mercy of God that He has also given us men and women today who by this same means serve to bear witness of that goodness and mercy of God. We must not despise that gift of men and women, neither must we fall into an accusatory spirit, as some have done. If we do, then like Judas, whom Christ said was a devil, which in Greek means an accuser, we too will accuse others, and the mercy and goodness of God will pass us by in a day wherein we have no more time to prevaricate. It is always the church that harms the church. Persecution does not harm the church.

Rhomphaeam
 

p_rehbein

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Sep 4, 2013
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#3
Duncan Campbell reported that seventy percent of all the people who were saved in the revival of the Outer Hebrides were saved with no intervention of men. They neither heard the gospel, nor were witnessed to, neither did any man or woman direct them,
So, I guess we just throw away our Bibles because the Scriptures within are not Truth?

Romans, Chapter 10:

9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


I do not know what Church Group/Denomination you belong to, or, if you even belong to one, but whatever it is, they teach a different Gospel than the one I read in my KJV.

In truth, it sounds much like a mix between pagan teachings and Christian teachings, and that ain't the Gospel of Jesus IMO....
 

Rhomphaeam

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#4
Who asked you to throw away your bibles? Are you basing your speculation about my church belonging - teaching a different gospel according to your claim - simply because I reported that Duncan Campbell made a statement about seventy percent of the men and women who were saved in the Hebridean Revival of 1949-52 - were born again without hearing the gsopel before hand? Is that your meaning? And how can that produce your honest claim that whatever church or denomination I belong to - it must be a mixture of pagan and Christian teaching? Is that your full claim?

This video is one instant of what that claim means. The element pertaining to no witness of the Gospel is at the very end and it is an entire village that was effected. This sort of thing happened hundreds of times across the entire Island group over a near three year period. Does this sound pagan to you?

 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#5
Who asked you to throw away your bibles? Are you basing your speculation about my church belonging - teaching a different gospel according to your claim - simply because I reported that Duncan Campbell made a statement about seventy percent of the men and women who were saved in the Hebridean Revival of 1949-52 - were born again without hearing the gsopel before hand? Is that your meaning? And how can that produce your honest claim that whatever church or denomination I belong to - it must be a mixture of pagan and Christian teaching? Is that your full claim?

This video is one instant of what that claim means. The element pertaining to no witness of the Gospel is at the very end and it is an entire village that was effected. This sort of thing happened hundreds of times across the entire Island group over a near three year period. Does this sound pagan to you?

The word of God always trumps experiences.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#6
In truth, it sounds much like a mix between pagan teachings and Christian teachings, and that ain't the Gospel of Jesus IMO....
This sounds like an unfair and uninformed response to what was posted. Go back and read what was written.
 

Rhomphaeam

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#7
The word of God always trumps experiences.
The word of God is the surety of our salvation. It is the revealed account Witten by the apostles and the prophets of God who witnessed Christ with their own eyes - handled with their own hands - else as with - Paul received in a countenance of the glory of the Lord - being given to us by their obedience when they laid down their lives to deliver it. Yet they spoke of Christ who came to Israel and Israel were first taught by the Father through the law and the prophets. So yes the word of God always trumps experience. May I ask you if you believe that what I have written stands in contradiction to that?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#8
This sounds like an unfair and uninformed response to what was posted. Go back and read what was written.

what I find strange about this post is how the subtle dismissal of revival and blame on the church for places that suffered after experiencing "revival".

Here are some things that jumped out and are not fully true.


  • Revival is a term that many saints hold to, to look for an answer to their own lives,
  • how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society.
  • When we examine the lives of the past saints after revival and restoration – also how society was changed after improvement
  • We must be honest, and we must look. It is essential that when we do this, we also realise that the revivals that we can examine do not speak of the condition of today.

There is much more, this is more than enough. The attack on Revival in this thread doesn't look at the cause and effects of two things that the word of God shows as normative from Genesis to Revelation.

1. God always responds to repentance and humbleness
2. People forget the move of God and sin seen over and over again in the word of God
3. people turn a move of God into a movement instead of following God and HIS moving.


The reason revival is so important is because it is an acknowledgment of God who is making dead people alive again.

Jesus said in Luke chapter 4:18-19

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


This is revival. Everywhere Jesus went HE revived people as HE does today through the Gospel message and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said mARK 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Revival is a move of God from a Christian perspective. What it seems like to me is revisionist casting blame on the church for a lost and fallen world because places, where God moved, can be and do become dead.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#9
Duncan Campbell reported that seventy percent of all the people who were saved in the revival of the Outer Hebrides were saved with no intervention of men. They neither heard the gospel, nor were witnessed to, neither did any man or woman direct them, neither could they explain how they came to be acting as they did when they gathered in hundreds outside churches, in fields, and homes, and outside police stations. All they knew was that they were taken by a means in which God did not contradict their needs, yet their needs were not met until God finished with them. They fell in fields whilst at work on the harvest, fell into ditches whilst going to social events, and were ministered to by children and by anyone who it pleased God to bring to them in their moment of salvation. Entire villages were swept by the hand of God and buildings were shaken, children were caught up in a triumph of obedience, and the Kingdom of Heaven was evidenced in such children, for as it is written, of such as these is the Kingdom of Heaven. God has perfected His praise in children.
People get saved by the preaching of the cross. People got saved without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

Rhomphaeam

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Dec 14, 2021
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#10
what I find strange about this post is how the subtle dismissal of revival and blame on the church for places that suffered after experiencing "revival".

Here are some things that jumped out and are not fully true.


  • Revival is a term that many saints hold to, to look for an answer to their own lives,
  • how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society.
  • When we examine the lives of the past saints after revival and restoration – also how society was changed after improvement
  • We must be honest, and we must look. It is essential that when we do this, we also realise that the revivals that we can examine do not speak of the condition of today.

There is much more, this is more than enough. The attack on Revival in this thread doesn't look at the cause and effects of two things that the word of God shows as normative from Genesis to Revelation.

1. God always responds to repentance and humbleness
2. People forget the move of God and sin seen over and over again in the word of God
3. people turn a move of God into a movement instead of following God and HIS moving.


The reason revival is so important is because it is an acknowledgment of God who is making dead people alive again.

Jesus said in Luke chapter 4:18-19

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

This is revival. Everywhere Jesus went HE revived people as HE does today through the Gospel message and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said mARK 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Revival is a move of God from a Christian perspective. What it seems like to me is revisionist casting blame on the church for a lost and fallen world because places, where God moved, can be and do become dead.
What I have written is not in the least an attack on revival. As to the elements you cited of what I posted - I spoke in a generality in some of those citations and in specificity of China - during the time of men of God - two of who I have named and given context to their lives by the hand of the daughter of one of those men in her own words - I have spoken of Wales with regard to the Welsh revival of 1904/5 and spoken of Evan Roberts - and I spoke of Lewis with regard to Duncan Campbell - and gave a video narrated by Duncan that speaks of a single event that took place in 1950 on the Isle of Berneray. Yet you find my words strange and false. Why is that apart from your citation of Scripture which you say defines revival and not revival itself as accounted for in the time it occurred as laid down by myself as a point of reference?

Of China I have original documentation of events that happened in China and had translation work carried out by three Chinese linguists - both in China and in the USA - and then had the translations proof read by several phonologists who made a comparison of the simplified translations and English translations from Classical Chinese original translations to Chinese encyclopaedic lexical dictionaries in order to filter the way that the Chinese language has changed between the advent of the Peoples Republic of China in 1948 beginning in Peking (as was) and the publications of the lexical definitions that the Chinese government in 1979.

Of Wales I am in fellowship with and work with brethren who minister out of chapels that were at the centre of the Welsh revival and have spent many hours with them speaking about that revival. Yet I did state that others would be better bearing witness of Wales. Those others are the pastors I am in fellowship with in ministry.

Of Lewis I knew and fellowshipped with Donald MacPhail - in Lewis when I lived their and was in ministry there and am still in fellowship with his son.

Yet I do not see that you know what I have actually said. Despite that you like what @p_rehbein says - when he tells me that in his honest opinion what I believe is a mixture of pagan and Christian teachings.

There is revival and how that impacts those who already believe and ongoing those who came to faith and then society after the revival ends. That is the fracture. And that is all it takes to throw some men into schisms.
 

Rhomphaeam

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#11
People get saved by the preaching of the cross. People got saved without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
In their own hearing? The Hebrides have had the gospel for nearly 1500 years. Every man woman and child on those Islands have heard the name of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross - if not in their homes - then in the school assembly. When did you hear the gospel, brother? I heard it when I was a child in an Anglican Church - but I wasn't born again until I was found by Christ in a prison cell in solitary confinement in 1984 - without a word being spoken to me. So when did you hear the Gospel - and when were you born again?

The video sets down what I said - if you listened to it - then you are calling some men liars. What is that, brother?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#12
In their own hearing? The Hebrides have had the gospel for nearly 1500 years. Every man woman and child on those Islands have heard the name of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross - if not in their homes - then in the school assembly. When did you hear the gospel, brother? I heard it when I was a child in an Anglican Church - but I wasn't born again until I was found by Christ in a prison cell in solitary confinement in 1984 - without a word being spoken to me. So when did you hear the Gospel - and when were you born again?

The video sets down what I said - if you listened to it - then you are calling some men liars. What is that, brother?
People can't get saved without hearing the message of the cross, the gospel of our salvation. I guess I read it wrong. I thought these people were getting saved without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

Rhomphaeam

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#13
People can't get saved without hearing the message of the cross, the gospel of our salvation. I guess I read it wrong. I thought these people were getting saved without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Scotland first recorded its acceptance of the gospel of Christ through the Pictish tribes in the late fourth century. The Hebridean Isles were first held to be Christian in the 6th century evangelised by the Irish Celts in the inner Hebrides. My family on my mothers side is married into a Hebridean family dating back more than 300 years - and when my youngest son was born on the Isle of Lewis in the early 1990's I left the Islands to move to mainland Britain for ministry. Before that I was in fellowship with Donald MacPhail on the Isle of Lewis - who is the boy who prayed in that witness of Duncan Campbell. So I am very careful to set my witness to make full the meaning that burdens me and why I am even on this forum.

I understand your point - and accept that it is Scriptural - yet I see all too often men using the sword of the word to strike people rather than rightly dividing the soul and the spirit. Many children give their hearts to the Lord when they are little children in a childish manner and often with no other witness that God Himself. Then fall away into unspeakable harm and unfathomable injury by the time they are teenagers. Some come back to a living faith and in the Lewis revival many young people came to Christ radically when their parents were not even considered to be Christians. Yet they knew the name of Christ and that he died for them as children. Lewis is a bastion of Calvinism not a free for all. So you can be certain that when so many were born again by the sovereign hand of God - no one argued with them as they began to join together to praise and worship the living God. Neither would they have been received into fellowship if they could not give a true account of their new found faith. Yet seventy percent of those who were born again did not hear the gospel preached in their hearing at the time they came to a living faith. So I am bearing witness of what I know to be true from the mouth of numbers of those who were so plucked from the fire between 1949-1952. But that is not the essential character of what burdens me to write as I have written here - it is a rather more sobering reality - and that is intimated in what I wrote.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#14
Your Historical accounts are leaving out the Druid influence in religion during that time, and even still today. IYour OP sounds familiar to Druid writings. That is why I asked what church group you belong to.

I have read several of your Threads, and what I find glaringly missing is:

The Holy Trinity
Jesus is fully God
The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit
Salvation by grace through faith...........belief in Jesus as the Christ.
Spiritual enrichment and growth to become mature in Christ and the Gospel thus enabling us to be Sanctified believers
Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant, rendering it waxed and passed away
Jesus established the New Law FAITH! Through the spilling of His precious blood which is the cleansing power that makes ALL WHO BELIEVE to become worthy to be called the Children of the Living God.

What I see from you are a lot of Historical muses that appear to mix Christian beliefs with worldly ideologies as if the two are one. Nothing could be further from the Truth IMO.....
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#15
Your Historical accounts are leaving out the Druid influence in religion during that time, and even still today. IYour OP sounds familiar to Druid writings. That is why I asked what church group you belong to.

I have read several of your Threads, and what I find glaringly missing is:

The Holy Trinity
Jesus is fully God
The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit
Salvation by grace through faith...........belief in Jesus as the Christ.
Spiritual enrichment and growth to become mature in Christ and the Gospel thus enabling us to be Sanctified believers
Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant, rendering it waxed and passed away
Jesus established the New Law FAITH! Through the spilling of His precious blood which is the cleansing power that makes ALL WHO BELIEVE to become worthy to be called the Children of the Living God.

What I see from you are a lot of Historical muses that appear to mix Christian beliefs with worldly ideologies as if the two are one. Nothing could be further from the Truth IMO.....
Yes, I agree with your assessment completely. In fact, I find that those who say they were ex-satanist seem to have an overly prideful approach to the word of God and human intellect. I ask the question to a satanist one time,

" Why did you leave satanism."


I ask that again to the originator of this thread.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
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#16
Your Historical accounts are leaving out the Druid influence in religion during that time, and even still today. IYour OP sounds familiar to Druid writings. That is why I asked what church group you belong to.

I have read several of your Threads, and what I find glaringly missing is:

The Holy Trinity
Jesus is fully God
The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit
Salvation by grace through faith...........belief in Jesus as the Christ.
Spiritual enrichment and growth to become mature in Christ and the Gospel thus enabling us to be Sanctified believers
Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant, rendering it waxed and passed away
Jesus established the New Law FAITH! Through the spilling of His precious blood which is the cleansing power that makes ALL WHO BELIEVE to become worthy to be called the Children of the Living God.

What I see from you are a lot of Historical muses that appear to mix Christian beliefs with worldly ideologies as if the two are one. Nothing could be further from the Truth IMO.....
If you are led of the Holy Spirit to examine me and to inflect that I am not in truth even a believer in Christ who is born again, filled with the Holy Spirit and believe in a holy sanctified life then you must do that in obedience. You should be clear however in your witness and provide at least some material evidence that upholds all of that implication of your hand of judgement because it will be held to your account in the day of the Lord.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,703
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#17
If you are led of the Holy Spirit to examine me and to inflect that I am not in truth even a believer in Christ who is born again, filled with the Holy Spirit and believe in a holy sanctified life then you must do that in obedience. You should be clear however in your witness and provide at least some material evidence that upholds all of that implication of your hand of judgement because it will be held to your account in the day of the Lord.
I am questioning you to determine what you actually believe. One can not "discern" the spirits without knowing what they believe/teach. I am also stating what I have read and gleaned from your postings, and what I found absent.

As in the OP on this Thread, there is much about the "teachings of man," but I find little or no teachings of Jesus or His Gospel. That concerns me.

IF you profess to be a blood bought, born again, spirit filled child of the Living God, then GREAT........that makes us brothers in the Church. But if you rely on the teachings of man to gain insight into Scripture, then where is the evidence of the Spirit in you?

I am not being angry. I am being concerned. We have had many, many come here teaching the wisdom of the men in History as if their wisdom is greater than the Gospel of Jesus.....
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
#18
Yes, I agree with your assessment completely. In fact, I find that those who say they were ex-satanist seem to have an overly prideful approach to the word of God and human intellect. I ask the question to a satanist one time,

" Why did you leave satanism."


I ask that again to the originator of this thread.
Brother, if you wish to imply an even harsher judgement than the one you have agreed to @#14 then you must do that as you are led of the Holy Spirit in obedience. And neither will I answer your question either. It does not concern me that men make of others what they are inclined to make of them. It is a necessary effect that sifts spiritual realities and can only be borne witness of by the Holy Spirit. Do as you wish, brother.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,292
29,561
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#19
So, I guess we just throw away our Bibles because the Scriptures within are not Truth?
OP has stated in another thread that those people either most likely or for certain previously heard the gospel.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,703
6,892
113
#20
One other point. In your OP, you speak of how Revival begins or some such....

(this)

All revivals begin with a few men and women who pray, intercede and groan for the hand of God on his people,

in Truth, ALL REVIVALS BEGIN with the Holy Spirit, and His touching of the Saints, and bringing them into the awareness of the need for their celebrating Revival.

This is an example of what I am saying as to how you ignore the Holy Spirit, the Gospel, and rely on the "works" of man.