Pre existing materials?

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Unknowable

Banned
#1
Jul 2, 2011
15
1
0
#1
According to some Biblical scholars, in Genesis where it says "God created", the actual Hebrew translation for the word "created" means prepared, according to the Bible then did God simply prepare creation with already existing materials? Or was the creation made from nothing?

Is it possible that God simply prepared the earth etc with already pre-existing materials?

There are two general beliefs on this topic... these are the main two (i know others have been suggested):

ex nihilo - Did God create out of nothing?

Or

creatio ex materia (creation out of some pre-existant materials?

From wikipedia

Opposition within modern Christian theology

Thomas Jay Oord (born 1965), a Christian philosopher and theologian, argues that Christians should abandon the doctrine of creation ex nihilo. Oord points to the work of biblical scholars, such as Jon D. Levenson, who point out that the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo does not appear in Genesis. Oord speculates that God created our particular universe billions of years ago from primordial chaos. This chaos did not predate God, however, for God would have created the chaotic elements as well.Oord suggests that God can create all things without creating from absolute nothingness.



Oord offers nine objections to creatio ex nihilo here are some of them:
  1. Theoretical problem: One cannot conceive absolute nothingness.
  2. Biblical problem: Scripture – in Genesis, 2 Peter, and elsewhere – suggests creation from something (water, deep, chaos, etc.), not creation from absolutely nothing.
  3. Empirical problem: We have no evidence that our universe originally came into being from absolutely nothing.
  4. Creation-at-an-instant problem: We have no evidence in the history of the universe that entities can emerge instantaneously from absolute nothingness. As the earliest philosophers noted, out of nothing comes nothing (ex nihilo, nihil fit).
  5. Solitary power problem: Creatio ex nihilo assumes that a powerful God once acted alone. But power, as a social concept, only becomes meaningful in relation to others.
  6. Errant revelation problem: The God with the capacity to create something from absolutely nothing would apparently have the power to guarantee an unambiguous and inerrant message of salvation (for example: inerrant bible). An unambiguously clear and inerrant divine revelation does not exist.
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Scotth1960

Guest
#2
#2
Unknowable said:
According to some Biblical scholars, in Genesis where it says "God created", the actual Hebrew translation for the word "created" means prepared, according to the Bible then did God simply prepare creation with already existing materials? Or was the creation made from nothing?

Is it possible that God simply prepared the earth etc with already pre-existing materials?

There are two general beliefs on this topic... these are the main two (i know others have been suggested):

ex nihilo - Did God create out of nothing?

Or

creatio ex materia (creation out of some pre-existant materials?

From wikipedia
Click to expand...
Creatio ex materia would mean matter is as eternal as God, and that would mean two gods.
It's against monotheism! In the beginning there was nothing except God Himself. Then God created the universe and all that is within it out of nothing. Even if there was some pre-existing "materials" before the universe was created, God would have had to have created the matter before He created the universe. Nothing can be as Eternal as God Himself! God is God, and besides Him there is no other (Isaiah 44:6).
God bless you. In Erie Scott Harrington

 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#3
#3
I think Unknowable you need to focus on the present instead of being stuck on discussion of doubtful things. here is one certain truth you need to hear and believe:

Romans 10:8-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[b

so what brings you to Christian chat? do you wish to learn of Jesus and the Bible? or just to stir the pot?
 
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silverwind

Guest
#4
#4
He spoke everything into existence. "let there be"...... and there "was".
 
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Unknowable

Banned
#5
Jul 2, 2011
15
1
0
#5
AnandaHya said:
I think Unknowable you need to focus on the present instead of being stuck on discussion of doubtful things. here is one certain truth you need to hear and believe:

Romans 10:8-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[b

so what brings you to Christian chat? do you wish to learn of Jesus and the Bible? or just to stir the pot?
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AnandaHya do you believe that God created everything on earth, if so - please tell me how this would be possible from nothing. ?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#6
#6
Unknowable said:
AnandaHya do you believe that God created everything on earth, if so - please tell me how this would be possible from nothing. ?
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I believe God created the universe and if you can explain the concept of antimatter and how electrons pop in and out of "existence" I'll get back to you on it and we can have a conversation. until then. well here are a few science websites you might want to research.

Anti-Matter Trapped For 16 Minutes : 13.7: Cosmos And Culture : NPR

Indisputable Proof that Electrons Exist? [Archive] - Physics Forums

oh the concept of a photon as both energy wave and a particle would also be useful in the discussion. get back to me if you still want to discuss it all.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#7
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#7
Unknowable said:
AnandaHya do you believe that God created everything on earth, if so - please tell me how this would be possible from nothing. ?
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Gods ways are higher than our ways. If we could possibly explain God's ways to you then they would no longer be higher than ours... Do you see the dilemma? It's pretty simple, though. Even if God used stuff that was already here to create the Earth, where did that stuff come from? That stuff must have been created also at some point. Right? You can't add nothing to nothing and get something, right?
 
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Joshua175

Guest
#8
#8
I think the real question here is do you believe that God is God?

Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
 
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dmdave17

Guest
#9
#9
Unknowable said:
AnandaHya do you believe that God created everything on earth, if so - please tell me how this would be possible from nothing. ?
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Here we go again. Trying to limit God's power. Remember, He is almighty God! I don't know how many times I've quoted this verse, but here goes ... “I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27) The answer, I believe, is emphatically NO!
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#10
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#10
Sadly lots of garbage from hell is taught in school. I hope you fine the truth.
 
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jenniebear1955

Guest
#11
#11
this is very true. nothing was made without God making it.
 
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