Predestination is misunderstood...

[Genez]

If you can't see Scripture in what he had written then I doubt you have true biblical discernment and are with those who are carnally minded and think that they are saved by looking at themselves and not Christ.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rev 3:16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

After we get saved there comes a period when we explore and discover what happened to us...

How long should we keep dwelling upon it?
All our life on earth?

How much more is there to know?


............

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The discussion point you replied to was regarding Luke's writing.

Do you believe each gospel records separate events ? ... that Jesus healed 3 different people of demon possession ? ... and the response of those around Him was basically the same at each different event?

or do you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke all wrote about the same incident ?

So, you interpret the reasoning Jesus is using in Luke to refer to Satan using deceptive strategy by casting out demons and dividing his own kingdom? Wouldn't this go against what Jesus is reasoning?

I provided my understanding of the record:

Here is what Scripture tells us:

Matthew 12:22-23 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

The term son of David is a Messianic term. The Lord Jesus Christ caused the blind to see and the dumb to speak ... which fulfilled OT prophecy (Is 35:5, 6).

When the pharisees heard the people calling Jesus "son of David", they immediately put a stop to it by claiming Jesus had cast out devils by beelzebub ... and Jesus immediately put them in their place.

The blasphemy of the pharisees was they attributed God’s work to satan, thereby giving satan glory ... glory that belongs only to God.

Additionally, I commented on your reasoning ... which I could have left off as it appears to have caused some confusion. sorry about that.

Again, there is a yet unproven assumption here that we can simply use Luke and Matthew interchangeably. Since you believe this is proper procedure, I can understand why you do or don't believe what the record supports.

again, do you believe these are separate incidents wherein Jesus healed someone of demon possession? ... and the response of those around Him was to claim Jesus cast out devils by beelzebub? ... and the reply of Jesus about satan being divided against himself? ... these were 3 separate incidents ?

Remaining in Luke, Luke only refers to some from the crowd, not some "from the Pharisees", alleging Jesus was casting out demons by Beelzebub.

I believe Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about the same incident.

Until the reasoning of what Jesus said is properly understood so the logic works, who the "sons" are is up for discussion.

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children [Greek = huios] cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Luke 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons [Greek = huios] cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.


The only difference between Matthew 12:27 and Luke 11:19 is that the Greek word huios is translated "children" in Matthew and "sons" in Luke.

However, both Matthew and Luke have Jesus stating "your huios" ... not "my huios".

I do not agree with your article that "the sons in Luke 11 are Jesus' disciples", otherwise Jesus would have said "my huios".

IF Luke and Matthew are referring to the same event, maybe this is why Luke determined it appropriate to state things differently than Matthew did. Same goes for Mark. At the end of the analysis, the point of what each writer are making is what's important to understand.

do you believe they were speaking of the same event?

If we modify what you said is your "favored view"

you said it was my "favored view":

BTW, I'm not trying to take your favored view away from you.

I merely clarified that Scripture is my "favored view".
.

 

[studier]

Do you believe each gospel records separate events ? ... that Jesus healed 3 different people of demon possession ? ... and the response of those around Him was basically the same at each different event?

or do you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke all wrote about the same incident ?

 

[studier]

Do you believe each gospel records separate events ? ... that Jesus healed 3 different people of demon possession ? ... and the response of those around Him was basically the same at each different event?

or do you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke all wrote about the same incident ?

I think you present it as the same incident but have not proven it. Maybe books like this will help you present your case: Harmony of the Gospels. There may be better links. I found this one quickly.

I think Matthew, Mark and Luke present whatever the incident(s) and present it or them differently as the focus of their writings are different. Whether or not it's the same incident may or may not be important.

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children [Greek = huios] cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Luke 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons [Greek = huios] cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

The only difference between Matthew 12:27 and Luke 11:19 is that the Greek word huios is translated "children" in Matthew and "sons" in Luke.

However, both Matthew and Luke have Jesus stating "your huios" ... not "my huios".

I do not agree with your article that "the sons in Luke 11 are Jesus' disciples", otherwise Jesus would have said "my huios".

If the Greek wording is the same, then there is no difference of the phrase in the actual Text no matter the translations. If we look at different translations, we'll typically see differences as you note. But maybe the translation you're using is not the best.

I didn't write the article. It's not mine. I didn't even say I agreed with it. I haven't read it. I noted that it is prominently referenced in several writings and it's easy to see that it questions and works through who the sons are. The reason it is noted in the NET Bible and other works is likely because they deem the argument worthy of consideration.

Jesus said and meant whatever He meant for the purposes of His argument. In my view the logic of His argument is not well understood by most who simply pass on what they've been taught. Articles like the one I referenced can be written by men who do a lot more reasoning on the topic than the casual student or even dedicated and educated students who have never truly focused on the section of Scripture.

 

[Genez]

If you can't see Scripture in what he had written then I doubt you have true biblical discernment and are with those who are carnally minded and think that they are saved by looking at themselves and not Christ.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rev 3:16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Those passages do not speak about people who are unsaved.
You do not warn unbelievers to not be carnally minded.

The passages speak of believers who are failing to live the active spiritual life in Christ.
They were neither hot, nor cold. They became lukewarm.

Lukewarm believers are those who became regenerate and are on fire for the Lord, and over time cooled down into complacency.


They are saved and will be with you in Heaven when the time comes....