PURGATORY

[eric51]

In 1 John 5:17, we see that there are different degrees of sin: "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly." The Greek word used for deadly, Thanatos (θάνατος), signifies spiritual death as a consequence of sin – what we would call eternal ****ation. The book of Revelation tells us that nothing unclean shall enter heaven (21:27). What would happen if we did not repent of a sin that was "not deadly" and we died? We are neither ****ed nor forgiven – yet we must be forgiven to enter heaven.

Temporal punishment, which is one aspect of divine justice, is found in at least two places in the Old Testament. Once, when Moses and Aaron are not allowed to enter the Promised Land because of their sin, (Numbers 20:12) and again when David is found guilty of murder and adultery. Although they all repented and were forgiven, God still punished them (2 Samuel 12:13-14). Purgatory is a place where satisfaction is made for unrepented venial (not deadly) sins and for temporal punishment due for all past sins.

In Matthew 12:32 Jesus says, "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Why does Jesus talk about forgiveness after death?

Jesus speaks of purgatory in Matthew 18:23-35. While speaking on forgiveness He says: "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to..." and then He tells a story about a king who forgave a servant's large debt. That same servant refused to forgive a much smaller amount of a fellow servant. The king then threw the first servant into prison "until he should pay back the whole debt." Jesus then says, "So will my Heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart." What prison is there in the kingdom of heaven where you might remain until your debt is satisfied – purgatory maybe?

Paul also spoke of purgatory in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. He says in part, "The work of each will come to light, for the day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss, the person will be saved, but only as through fire."

Those detained in Purgatory can be aided by the prayers of the faithful. Inscriptions in the catacombs bear witness to this ancient Church teaching. One reads, "Intercession has been made for the soul of the dear one departed and God has heard the prayer, and the soul has passed into a place of light and refreshment." Another one reads, "In your prayers remember us who have gone before you."

Support is also found in the writings of Tertullian (200AD), who declares that prayers for the dead are an apostolic ordinance. Clement of Alexandria (150-216 AD) writes about a place after death where "expiation and purification" occur before heaven is attained. Other Church Fathers agree, such as Origen (185-254 AD), Cyprian (200-258 AD), Jerome (342-420 AD), Ambrose (340-397 AD), Augustine (354-430 AD), and many others.

The tradition of the Jews is found in 2 Maccabees 12:42-46: "Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out...He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice…if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death…Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin."

The Jewish historian Josephus, while commenting on the endurance of the Jews under siege in the year 63, writes, "Just as if deep peace enfolded the city, the daily sacrifices, offerings for the dead, and every other act of worship were meticulously carried out to the glory of God" (The Jewish War). If this is wrong, as some contend, and it was practiced in Jesus' day, why didn't He or the Apostles condemn it?

 

[eric51]

One of the most frustrating experiences a Christan can have in explaining his faith to Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestants is that they so often believe and accept the most mysterious and difficult Christian doctrines, such as the Trinity and the vicarious atonement, without a murmur and then balk at doctrines which even by their own standards should pose no difficulty at all. Purgatory is a prime example.

Protestants deny the existence of purgatory because they say that the only cleansing needed for salvation is the cleansing in the precious Blood of Jesus, poured out on the Cross for sinners. We agree. The holy souls in purgatory are not experiencing a different or additional cleansing, but only the final effects of the one cleansing in the blood of Christ, since nothing unclean shall enter heaven (Rev. 21:27). Those who are being purified beyond death are not the unbelieving and the impenitent, who will go to hell; the souls in purgatory are those who have already been justified by grace and are at peace with God at their life’s end.

Protestants protest against purgatory, yet they have no objection to the idea that for their sins God sometimes allows Christians to endure both temporal judgments and deprivation of spiritual consolations. For example, the Presbyterian Westminster Confession (1646) says that true Christian believers may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves (from John H. Leith, ed., Creeds of the Churches: A Reader in Christian Doctrine in the Bible to the Present (Richmond, Virginia: John Knox Press, 1973), p. 212). The Baptist Abstract of Principles (1859) says in a similar vein that believers may "fall, through neglect and temptation, into sin, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the Church, and temporal judgments on themselves . . . " (Leith, p. 342).

If a justified believer can suffer these consequences of sin, then why can’t the same believer experience analogous temporal judgments beyond death, if there remain in him "wood, hay, and straw" (1 Cor. 3:121) still to be consumed? In fact, Protestants should have fewer objections to purgatory than to other Apostolic doctrines: In purgatory, there is no increase of "merit" even as the fruition of Christ’s grace in us—no good works of any kind. That is why Christian theologians have coined the term "satispassion" to describe what happens there. The holy souls, in their present state, are assured of their salvation in Christ and eternally secure in this knowledge. Though they suffer, they are sustained by the love of God and helped by the prayers of the faithful. And if there is a purgatory, then there can be no more objection to these prayers than to any other intercessory prayer Christians might offer in the name of Jesus.

Many Fundamentalist Protestants interpret the Bible in accordance with the so-called "Dispensationalism" popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible (though never heard of before the alleged private revelation given to Margaret MacDonald in 1830 in Scotland) Dispensationalists go beyond even the classic Lutherans and Calvinists in their insistence on the "eternal security" of the believer, often insisting that even utterly fruitless and dead faith (cf. James 2) is saving faith! For this they are condemned by Calvinists for fostering a lawless or antinomian mentality. The dispensationalists counter this charge by affirming that, though no believers will be ****ed, some will be more highly rewarded for their good works and service than others; and fruitless or "carnal" believers will, in the Day of Judgment, even feel a temporary deprivation of the fullness of joy and glory. Charles Stanley, a prominent dispensationalist and the pastor of Atlanta’s First Baptist Church, writes in his book Eternal Security:

"Now, imagine standing before God and seeing all you have lived for reduced to ashes. How do you think you would respond? Picture yourself watching saint after saint rewarded for faithfulness and service to the King—and all the time knowing that you had just as many opportunities but did nothing about them. We cannot conceive of the agony and frustration we would feel if we were to undergo such an ordeal; the realization that our unfaithfulness had cost us eternally would be devastating. And so it will be for many believers. Just as those who are found faithful will rejoice, so those who suffer loss will weep. As some are celebrated for their faithfulness, others will gnash their teeth in frustration over their own shortsightedness and greed. We do not know how long this time of rejoicing and sorrow will last. Those whose works are burned will not weep and gnash their teeth for eternity. At some point we know God will comfort those who have suffered loss (see Rev. 21:4) . . . On the other side of the coin, we can rest assured that none of our good deeds will go unnoticed, either."

As Reformed theologian Michael Horton points out, this opinion—quite common among dispensational Fundamentalists—has "merely managed to move purgatory geographically. No longer is it a place outside of heaven and hell, but it is within the Kingdom of God itself... This has much more in common with medieval dogma than with evangelical Christianity."

We Christians fully agree. In fact, strict Calvinists would probably find the understanding of purgatory in the writings of John Henry Newman or St. Catherine of Genoa less objectionable than this quotation from Charles Stanley. It is worth recalling that C. S. Lewis, who is rightly held in high regard by both Catholics and Protestants, believed in purgatory and prayers for the dead; he expressed his views on the subject in his book I.etters to Malcolm, Chiefly on Prayer: "Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?

"On the traditional Protestant view, all the dead are ****ed or saved. If they are ****ed, prayer for them is useless. If they are saved, it is equally useless. God has already done all for them. What more should we ask? But don’t we believe that God has already done and is already doing all that He can for the living? What more should we ask? Yet we are told to ask.

"‘Yes,’ it will be answered, ‘but the living are still on the road. Further trials, developments, possibilities of error, await them. But the saved have been made perfect. They have finished the course. To pray for them presupposes that progress and difficulty are still possible. In fact, you are bringing in something like purgatory.’

"Well, I suppose I am . . . I believe in purgatory. . .

"Our souls demand purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, ‘It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy’? Should we not reply, ‘With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleaned first.’ ‘It may hurt, you know’—‘Even so, sir.’"

If the Westminster Confession can uphold temporal judgments for the justified believer, and if dispensationalists can accept the idea that the elect may experience such temporary deprivation of joy even beyond this life, and if such a Christian apologist as C. S. Lewis could believe in purgatory, and prayers for the dead, Without any of them being accused of denying the saving efficacy of the Cross of Jesus, then what possible objection can there be to the doctrine of purgatory?

 

[eric51]

Common Objection: What good are prayers for the dead? If a person is in heaven, he doesn’t need prayers, and if he is ****ed, then no amount of prayers will help him.

Apostolic Christians and Protestants can agree on two things regarding the afterlife: Souls in hell will not grow close to God, and those in heaven cannot draw any nearer to him. If purgatory does not exist, prayers for the dead are useless. But if a state of purification exists for some after death, and if prayers can help others in their process of sanctification in this life (Job 1:5; 1 Thess. 5:23), it seems reasonable that prayers would be beneficial to those who are being sanctified after this life. This narrows down the essential question: Does purgatory exist?

If sin still clings to Christians (Heb 12:1), but there is no sin in heaven (Rev. 21:27), there must be a purification that takes place after one’s death and before one enters heaven. Even if it were "in the blink of an eye," this final stage of sanctification must take place, so those who die in God’s favor may be cleansed if any affection for sin remains in them.

Paul mentions this in 1 Cor. 3:13–15: "Each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

Paul’s thought calls to mind the image of God as the refiner’s fire and fuller’s soap mentioned in Malachi 3:2. The fuller’s soap was lye or alkaline salt that removed stains from clothing. A refiner’s fire was an oven of intense heat where precious metals were placed in order to purify them of their corrosion and dross. In the same way, purgatory is when a soul is immersed into the fire of God’s love and lifted out of the residue of its imperfections.


Common Objection: The only reason the Church invented this unbiblical idea of purgatory is to make money off the faithful who think that they can save their unrepentant deceased relatives by paying for Masses.

Does the Church amass wealth off of the doctrine of purgatory? The average Mass stipend (which is optional) is around five dollars. Say a parish had two daily Masses offered for the dead, it would amount to 70 dollars a week. Considering that the five-dollar stipend typically goes to pay for the church’s electricity, maintenance, furnishings, salaries, Mass wine and bread, etc., it is apparent how silly this objection about "wealth" is.

Can Masses said after a person’s death save his soul? No. Purgatory is only for those who have repented and have died in God’s grace but still have some attachment to sin. While the Church cannot judge souls, we can be certain that if a person dies in a state of mortal sin without asking God’s forgiveness, purgatory does not await him as if it were a second chance.


Common Objection: Weren’t prayers for the dead an invention of the medieval Church?

Prayers for the dead are not only older than the Middle Ages, they pre-date Christianity. In the Old Testament, Judah Maccabee and his companions pray for the souls of departed soldiers: "It was a holy and pious thought. Therefore, he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin" (2 Macc. 12:45). While Protestants do not accept this as an inspired book, it is worthwhile to point out that even today Jews have a prayer called the kaddish that is offered for the purification of the deceased.

This practice of praying for the dead is also recorded throughout ancient Christian documents, such as the Acts of Paul and Thecla, and in the writings of Abercius, Perpetua, Tertullian, Cyril of Jerusalem, Epiphanius of Salamis, John Chrysostom, and Augustine. Since all of these men wrote between A.D. 160 and 421, prayers for the souls in purgatory can hardly be considered a medieval invention. On the contrary, refusing to pray for the dead is a novel idea in light of historic Judaism and Christianity.


Common Objection: The idea of souls needing prayers in purgatory seems so contrary to the gospel that no Bible-believing Christian could believe it.

Actually, about three-quarters of all Christians believe it. Certain Protestants, such as C.S. Lewis, have also held to the truth of the doctrine. In his Letters to Malcom, he said, "Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age, the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?

"I believe in Purgatory. . . . Our souls demand Purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, ‘It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy’? Should we not reply, ‘With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleansed first.’ ‘It may hurt, you know’—"Even so, sir.’"


Common Objection: But purgatory implies that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient, that he didn’t finish the work of redemption on Calvary. Why do Catholics feel the need to add to it by doing more work in purgatory?

This objection is based on a pair of erroneous presumptions: That progressive sanctification and suffering take away from Christ’s work on Calvary and that the Church teaches that purgatory is work.

To address the second objection first, purgatory is not a place for those bad Christians who didn’t finish working their way to heaven while on earth. "For by grace you have been saved by faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8–9). The purification that takes place in purgatory is purely a work of God’s grace, since there is no chance for merit after death, and the judgment of each individual is based solely upon their earthly life. But regardless of where Christ purifies men, it is precisely because his sacrifice was sufficient that each believer can be perfected.

Though Christ paid the infinite debt of man’s sins 2,000 years ago, the sanctification process in the life of each Christian continues. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Paul tells the faithful, "May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." According to Scripture, sanctification is a thing of the past (1 Cor. 6:11), present (1 Thess. 4:3), and future (1 Thess. 5:23) in the Christian life.

This process often involves suffering, as Paul indicates: "Let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus as the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross. . . . ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him. For the Lord disciplines whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. [God] disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it" (Heb. 12:1–12).

Therefore, the presence of suffering does not detract from Christ’s sacrifice. In fact, there is only one mention in all of Scripture of something "lacking in Christ’s afflictions," and that missing link is the suffering of his mystical body, the Church (Col. 1:24).


Common Objection: I can accept that suffering happens to each believer, but Christ paid all punishments for sin. If purgatory is a punishment, then it means Christ left some part of the debt unpaid.

Some Christians maintain that all temporal punishments for sin are taken away if the person has repented. But the Bible indicates that although God takes away the eternal punishment, some temporal punishments may remain.

In the Old Testament, God forgave David, but still took the life of his son (2 Sam. 12:13–14). In the New Testament, Christ reiterates this principle, "Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny" (Matt. 5:25–26). It can also be mentioned that Christian women still experience the temporal punishment of birthpangs (Gen. 3:16), although Christ paid the infinite debt of man’s original sin (Rom. 5:12–21).

The sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice is not lessened by the fact that God’s work of perfecting his children is a process that often involves suffering and even temporal punishment. While "for the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant" (Heb 12:11), it is all a part of God’s promise made through Paul, "that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:6), even if it should be "as through fire" (1 Cor. 3:15).

 

[MahogonySnail]

Though I'd put this here since it is relevant to purgatory:

Need to employ logic, Mahogony. And build on concepts. I know this is difficult, but if your are over the age of 12, you need to start. Otherwise, all walks of life will prove very difficult for you. Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti&#8221 generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

You contradict yourself..in your attempt to show that there is another state after death, by showing that sins are forgiven in the next life, you contradict the doctrine of purgatory which says that a person is punished or pays for sins which they have already been forgiven of.

God could forgive someone at the pearly gates to heaven without ever going through purgatory. Moot point I'm afraid. God can forgive someone anytime He chooses. It is no more evidence of purgatory than me saying the soul goes straight to heaven after death, or temporary abode in Paradise (Abraham's bosom) which involves no torment or punishment of any kind...




What about:

1Co 3:15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.


Now 1 Co 3:15 may suggest purgatory. But doesn't explicitly say.

No, it doesn't explicitly say. If you are working only with "explicits", I imagine the entire bible isn't worth very much to you. And you need to build with concepts, and see where the construction leads you. That is why Christians have defined the concept of Purgatory. One idea built on top of another leads to a belief in Purgatory. Does this scare you? Poor boy.

You must be in faerie land if you gave that verse to someone and said "here it proves the existance of purgatory". Scripture must be read in context. The context of this verse is unfortunatley for you, not purgatory, but the Day of Christ as it says in vs 13:

1Co 3:13 And the quality of each person's work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it. For on that Day fire will reveal everyone's work; the fire will test it and show its real quality.

It is talking about a day when Christ will test everyones work by fire. Probably in reference to the last days. This is far from an idea of souls being tormented or purged from their sin in a burning fire for 1000s of years or so. A nice attempt at proving purgatory, but once again the Catholic shows their lack of skill in interpreting scripture.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Also the example of Maccabees is supposedly proof for purgatory. However the soldiers committed a mortal sin, idolatory, without repenting before death. According to Catholic belief, the soul would not go to purgatory but straight to hell.



Some good reasons why purgatory is a myth:

From the Church of England's Articles of Religion:
XXII. Of Purgatory.
The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping and Adoration, as well of Images as of Relics, and also Invocation of Saints, is a fond thing, vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.


The fact that the apostles do not mention purgatory, but rather to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And in purgatory you are not in the Lord's presence.

The fact that purgatory means God forgives your sins, but doesn't forget them. You still have to pay for your sins. Scripture says God both forgives and remember our sins no more:

Jer 31:34 And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.


Barnes commentary:


2Co 5:8
We are confident - 2Co_5:6. We are cheerful, and courageous, and ready to bear our trial. Tyndale renders it: "we are of good comfort."
And willing rather to be absent from the body - We would prefer to die. The same idea occurs in Phi_1:23. "Having a desire to depart and to be with Christ; which is far better." The sense is, that Paul would have preferred to die, and to go to heaven; rather than to remain in a world of sin and trial.
To be present with the Lord - The Lord Jesus; see the note on Act_1:24; compare Phi_1:23. The idea of Paul is, that the Lord Jesus would constitute the main glory of heaven, and that to be with him was equivalent to being in a place of perfect bliss. He had no idea of any heaven where the Lord Jesus was not; and to be with him was to be in heaven. That world where the Redeemer is, is heaven. This also proves that the spirits of the saints, when they depart, are with the Redeemer; that is, are at once taken to heaven. It demonstrates:
(1) That they are not annihilated.
(2) that they do not sleep, and remain in an unconscious state, as Dr. Priestley supposes.
(3) that they are not in some intermediate state, either in a state of purgatory, as the Papists suppose, or a state where all the souls of the just and the unjust are assembled in a common abode, as many Protestants have supposed; but,
(4) That they dwell with Christ; they are with the Lord (πρὸς τὸν Κυρίον pros ton Kurion). They abide in his presence; they partake of his joy and his glory; they are permitted to sit with him in his throne; Rev_3:21.


But purgatory unfortunately is full of myth and legend and medieval fantasy.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The Jewish historian Josephus, while commenting on the endurance of the Jews under siege in the year 63, writes, "Just as if deep peace enfolded the city, the daily sacrifices, offerings for the dead, and every other act of worship were meticulously carried out to the glory of God" (The Jewish War). If this is wrong, as some contend, and it was practiced in Jesus' day, why didn't He or the Apostles condemn it?

In the Catholic mind, this means the Jews were praying for the souls of those stuck in purgatory, to ease their suffering, or to grant them quicker passage to heaven, this must prove purgatory!!! However, the Jews did not pray for the dead in this way. In the mourner's Kaddish, it is merely praising God, rather than praying for a dead persons soul stuck in some mythical state of purgatory. Please keep in context.

 

[eric51]

All Christians agree that we won’t be sinning in heaven. Sin and final glorification are utterly incompatible. Therefore, between the sinfulness of this life and the glories of heaven, we must be made pure. Between death and glory there is a purification.

Thus, the Church states: "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the ****ed" .

The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament in passages such as 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 and Matthew 5:25–26, 12:31–32.

The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning "until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy" (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

Jews, Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox have always historically proclaimed the reality of the final purification. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied this doctrine. As the quotes below from the early Church Fathers show, purgatory has been part of the Christian faith from the very beginning.

Some imagine that the Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular "place" in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines.


The Acts of Paul and Thecla


"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again received her [Thecla]. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: ‘Mother, you shall have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the righteous’" (Acts of Paul and Thecla [A.D. 160]).


Abercius


"The citizen of a prominent city, I erected this while I lived, that I might have a resting place for my body. Abercius is my name, a disciple of the chaste Shepherd who feeds his sheep on the mountains and in the fields, who has great eyes surveying everywhere, who taught me the faithful writings of life. Standing by, I, Abercius, ordered this to be inscribed: Truly, I was in my seventy-second year. May everyone who is in accord with this and who understands it pray for Abercius" (Epitaph of Abercius [A.D. 190]).


The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity


"[T]hat very night, this was shown to me in a vision: I [Perpetua] saw Dinocrates going out from a gloomy place, where also there were several others, and he was parched and very thirsty, with a filthy countenance and pallid color, and the wound on his face which he had when he died. This Dinocrates had been my brother after the flesh, seven years of age, who died miserably with disease. . . . For him I had made my prayer, and between him and me there was a large interval, so that neither of us could approach to the other . . . and knew that my brother was in suffering. But I trusted that my prayer would bring help to his suffering; and I prayed for him every day until we passed over into the prison of the camp, for we were to fight in the camp-show. Then . . . I made my prayer for my brother day and night, groaning and weeping that he might be granted to me. Then, on the day on which we remained in fetters, this was shown to me: I saw that the place which I had formerly observed to be in gloom was now bright; and Dinocrates, with a clean body well clad, was finding refreshment. . . . [And] he went away from the water to play joyously, after the manner of children, and I awoke. Then I understood that he was translated from the place of punishment" (The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity 2:3–4 [A.D. 202]).


Tertullian


"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]" (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).

"A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice" (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).


Cyprian of Carthage


"The strength of the truly believing remains unshaken; and with those who fear and love God with their whole heart, their integrity continues steady and strong. For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace [i.e., reconciliation] is given. Yet virginity is not therefore deficient in the Church, nor does the glorious design of continence languish through the sins of others. The Church, crowned with so many virgins, flourishes; and chastity and modesty preserve the tenor of their glory. Nor is the vigor of continence broken down because repentance and pardon are facilitated to the adulterer. It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord" (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).


Cyril of Jerusalem


"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out" (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).


Gregory of Nyssa


"If a man distinguish in himself what is peculiarly human from that which is irrational, and if he be on the watch for a life of greater urbanity for himself, in this present life he will purify himself of any evil contracted, overcoming the irrational by reason. If he has inclined to the irrational pressure of the passions, using for the passions the cooperating hide of things irrational, he may afterward in a quite different manner be very much interested in what is better, when, after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire" (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]).


John Chrysostom


"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).


Augustine


"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).

 

[eric51]

[SIZE=+2]A[/SIZE]nother commonly misunderstood teaching of the Apostolic Church concerns Purgatory. Purgatory is not a second-chance for ****ed souls to repent. Instead it is a state of cleansing and purification for souls destined for heaven. Also Purgatory is not a means to earn our way to heaven, but a gift from God preparing us to see Him face to face. Even though not explicitly referred to by name, the Bible does allude to it, especially in terms of purging fire.
[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]he word Purgatory is related to the verb - to purge - which means to cleanse or purify. All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the ****ed.

Only saved souls - those dying in God's friendship - can go through Purgatory onto heaven. To better understand Purgatory in the light of Christ's sacrifice of redemption, we need to first focus on the consequences of sin.
[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]hrough Baptism and faith (Mark 16:16), we become friends of God and receive sanctifying grace - the privilege of eternal life. This is all made possible by Christ's redemption of us. Unfortunately very serious sin - mortal sin - "kills" our friendship with God. By willfully committing mortal sin, we reject God, and we lose this sanctifying grace (Titus 1:16). Christ's sacrifice on the Cross can still redeem our friendship with God; however, we must repent and seek God's forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). If we do not repent and die in this graceless state, then we suffer the loss of eternal life. This loss is eternal punishment or hell (Matt 25:46). Hell is not punishment from a vengeful God, but the natural consequence of rejecting God - the Source of joy and life. Our redemption does not interfere with our free will; we can still reject our Lord through serious sin (Heb 10:26-27).
[SIZE=+2]N[/SIZE]ow not all sin is mortal (1 John 5:17). Some sin is not serious enough to kill our friendship with God, but still it is harmful to us and neighbors. The mess (e.g. scandal) caused by our sin needs correction. This correction is temporal punishment (Hebrews 12:5-11). We can be corrected and cleansed through personal penance on earth or later in Purgatory - thanks to our Redeemer, Jesus Christ.
[SIZE=+2]J[/SIZE]esus in the Gospel talks about this correction and indirectly Purgatory at the end of His parable on forgiveness:

And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers (torturers), till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. [Matt 18:34-35]

In this passage there is no mention of God punishing very serious sinners but only those who sin by not forgiving others. Also the punishment referred to here is not eternal as in hell (Mark 9:47-48) but only temporary - "till he should pay all his debt."
[SIZE=+2]P[/SIZE]urgatory is a temporary state for souls in friendship with God (i.e. saved) who need cleansing from the bad effects, mess, scandal and attachments (attraction to sin) still remaining from forgiven mortal sins and less serious venial sins. Such tainted souls, though saved, cannot enter heaven directly. As stated in the Bible: "But nothing unclean shall enter it (heaven)..." [Rev 21:27]. These souls need to be purged of all "uncleanness", no matter how slight before seeing God face to face (Rev 22:3-5). Eventually all souls in Purgatory will go to heaven.
[SIZE=+2]S[/SIZE]t. Paul makes allusions to this in terms of fire in his Epistle to the Corinthians:

Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble - each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. [1 Cor 3:12-15]

Our works built on Christ will be tested. Inferior works - "wood, hay and stubble" - will be purged by "fire", while only the "gold, silver and precious stones" will survive for heaven. The clause, "he will suffer loss," implies temporary hardship and punishment, even though he will be saved. St. Peter in his Epistle also reminds us that the genuineness of our faith "is tested by fire." [1 Peter 1:7]
[SIZE=+2]N[/SIZE]ow some Christians object to the doctrine of Purgatory and cite the repentant thief in the Gospel:

And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power." And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise." [Luke 23:42-43]

According to them, since Jesus promised this particular repentant sinner to be in "Paradise" with Him that very day, there is in general no need for Purgatory. This argument has several flaws though. First Christ could have granted this particular repentant sinner what the Church refers to as a "Plenary indulgence" - the total remission of temporal punishment due to already forgiven sins. Secondly Christ could have known that the thief's suffering on his cross was sufficient personal penance to purify his soul. However a more interesting point is that Jesus after His death did not go immediately to heaven. According to the Epistle of St. Peter:

For Christ also died for sins... being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey... [1 Peter 3:18-20]

Immediately after His death, Jesus "went and preached to the spirits in prison." Now this "prison" is surely not heaven, nor can it be hell since the souls in hell could not benefit from Christ's preaching. It is a third state. Perhaps the repentant thief joined Christ there that very day. In comparison to hell, Purgatory could rightly be described as Paradise.
[SIZE=+2]O[/SIZE]thers may object by citing that Christ's Blood "cleanses us from all sin." [1 John 1:7] Now that is true, but His sacrifice of redemption can be applied in different ways, such as through Baptism, Confession, prayer... Another way is Purgatory. Soap and water may be enough to cleanse my body; however, both can be applied in different ways: sitz bath, sponge bath or shower.
[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]he Church encourages us to pray for the dead since they may be in Purgatory needing our prayers. Praying for the dead is quite biblical. In the Book of Maccabees found in the Catholic and Orthodox Old Testament, Judas Maccabees took a collection for a sin offering for his men who died in battle:

For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead... Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. [2 Macc 12:44-45]

St. Paul offers a short prayer for Onesiphorus and his family:

May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus... may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day... [2 Tim 1:16 & 18]

Whether dead or live, St. Paul intercedes (mediates) for him to God (1 Tim 2:1-5).
[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]n the Bible St. Paul writes about a purging fire that will purify our works "for the Day." St. Peter reminds us that our faith will be refined and tested by fire. Elsewhere in the Bible, the action of the Holy Spirit is described as fire. "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." [Luke 3:16] According to the Spanish mystic, St. John of the Cross, the fire of Purgatory is God's Love purifying our soul in preparation for the final beatific vision - the heavenly union with God. (Rev 22:3-5) "For indeed our God is a consuming fire." [Heb 12:29]

 

[awings7]

In 1 John 5:17, we see that there are different degrees of sin: "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly." The Greek word used for deadly, Thanatos (θάνατος), signifies spiritual death as a consequence of sin – what we would call eternal ****ation. The book of Revelation tells us that nothing unclean shall enter heaven (21:27). What would happen if we did not repent of a sin that was "not deadly" and we died? We are neither ****ed nor forgiven – yet we must be forgiven to enter heaven.

Temporal punishment, which is one aspect of divine justice, is found in at least two places in the Old Testament. Once, when Moses and Aaron are not allowed to enter the Promised Land because of their sin, (Numbers 20:12) and again when David is found guilty of murder and adultery. Although they all repented and were forgiven, God still punished them (2 Samuel 12:13-14). Purgatory is a place where satisfaction is made for unrepented venial (not deadly) sins and for temporal punishment due for all past sins.

In Matthew 12:32 Jesus says, "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Why does Jesus talk about forgiveness after death?

Jesus speaks of purgatory in Matthew 18:23-35. While speaking on forgiveness He says: "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to..." and then He tells a story about a king who forgave a servant's large debt. That same servant refused to forgive a much smaller amount of a fellow servant. The king then threw the first servant into prison "until he should pay back the whole debt." Jesus then says, "So will my Heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart." What prison is there in the kingdom of heaven where you might remain until your debt is satisfied – purgatory maybe?

Paul also spoke of purgatory in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. He says in part, "The work of each will come to light, for the day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss, the person will be saved, but only as through fire."

Those detained in Purgatory can be aided by the prayers of the faithful. Inscriptions in the catacombs bear witness to this ancient Church teaching. One reads, "Intercession has been made for the soul of the dear one departed and God has heard the prayer, and the soul has passed into a place of light and refreshment." Another one reads, "In your prayers remember us who have gone before you."

Support is also found in the writings of Tertullian (200AD), who declares that prayers for the dead are an apostolic ordinance. Clement of Alexandria (150-216 AD) writes about a place after death where "expiation and purification" occur before heaven is attained. Other Church Fathers agree, such as Origen (185-254 AD), Cyprian (200-258 AD), Jerome (342-420 AD), Ambrose (340-397 AD), Augustine (354-430 AD), and many others.

The tradition of the Jews is found in 2 Maccabees 12:42-46: "Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out...He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice…if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death…Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin."

The Jewish historian Josephus, while commenting on the endurance of the Jews under siege in the year 63, writes, "Just as if deep peace enfolded the city, the daily sacrifices, offerings for the dead, and every other act of worship were meticulously carried out to the glory of God" (The Jewish War). If this is wrong, as some contend, and it was practiced in Jesus' day, why didn't He or the Apostles condemn it?

It was already condemed In YHs Word for one thing. And no there is no scripture to support
purgatory, that came out the RCC dogma

 

[Slepsog4]

Neither Purgatory nor Limbo are biblical. They are a part of the whole erroneous dogma of Roman Cathlo-paganism

 

[MaggieMye]

The truth of the matter, per scripture: Hebrews 9:27 "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"

You'd better get right with God before you die or ya don't get in! There is sin unto death (sin done with intent, know it is sin) and sin not unto death (sin done in ignorance of it being sin):
15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. 18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
God knows that heart; He sees the heart; He judges the heart.
Jeremiah 11:20a
But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart,
Adding concepts of purgatory to God's word is sin. It is intentional, because His word tells us not to.
Maggie

 

[MahogonySnail]

I dont mind the idea of purgatory, as a way to be made perfect to get to heaven. Some protestants have a similar idea, but this is based upon temporary punishments or rewards, rather than a place as catholicism describes.

 

[Lynn141312]

Hi eric51,

I've gone through much of what you have posted on Purgatory here and I concur.

I was going through my own notes to support this and everything that I would have quoted you have done so. Good Job on your apologetics.

Luke 12:59 - You will not get out till you have paid the very last penny.

 

[BLC]

quote 'You'd better get right with God before you die or ya don't get in! There is sin unto death (sin done with intent, know it is sin) and sin not unto death (sin done in ignorance of it being sin)'

There is all kinds of sin that we, as believers, commit or omit daily and because we are not walking in the light we are not aware of them. God covers those sins until we are able to receive the light of His conviction that comes by hearing the word. The entrance of God's word gives light (conviction) and understanding (Ps 119:130) to gently bring in conviction and exposes the sin, so we can confess it to God and be washed clean (1Jn 1:19). Whether I commit sin in ignorance or knowingly it is still sin before God because it came from my sin nature. Jesus Christ has paid for ALL my sin, whether they are done willingly in the flesh or in ignorance. God will have mercy in either case by bringing conviction into the heart. If we speak to anyone and we do not edify the hearer with words of grace, it is considered corrupt communication and God considers that sin (Eph 4:29). Have you done any of that lately? We all have and when God convicts us of it we need to confess it as sin to Him. There is no point in being afraid or introspective or even condemning ourselves, because we have a loving heavenly Father that is plenteous in mercy, full of compassion and is gracious (Ps 86:15, 77:9).

 

[Baptistrw]

No such thing as purgatory.

 

[eric51]

No such thing as purgatory.

Easy for an ostrich with his head in the sand to be skeptical.


1. Do the Scriptures speak about praying for the dead?
The Second Book of Machabees tells us that after Judas had defeatedGorgias, he came to bury the slain Jews. "Making a gathering, he senttwelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacri fice to be offeredfor the sins of the dead." 2Mach 12:43. Evidently Judas did not regardtheir sins to be grievous, for he says, "because he considered thatthey who had fallen asleep with godliness had great grace laid up for them."That praying for the dead was a Jewish practice is manifested in thesewords: 2Mach 12:45. "It is, therefore, a holy and wholesome thoughtto pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins." 2Mach12:46.

2. But the Books of Machabees are not contained in the Protestant Bible so why quote it to prove your doctrine?
The reformers rejected these books from the Bible precisely becausethey taught the doctrine of pray ing for the dead. If you Protestants denythat the Books of Machabees are two of the inspired books of the Biblethen you must admit them as historical records of Jewish faith in prayingfor the dead.

3. Does the New Testament speak of your Purgatory?
Not in name but in fact. Mt. 12:32: "He that shall speak againstthe Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, norin the world to come." St. Augustine and St. Gregory gather from thesewords that some sins may be remitted in the world to come; and consequentlythat there is a Purgatory. St. Paul 1Cor. 3:13-15: "The fire shalltry every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work burn, he shallsuffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." St.Paul tells us in these words that the soul shall be judged, suffer fora time and then be saved. The only place to suffer for a time before beingsaved is Purgatory. St. Mt. 5:25-26 speaks of the Prison, "and thoube cast into Prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence,till thou pay the last farthing."

4. Did the early Christians believe in Purgatory?
The tombs of the martyrs and the catacombs are filled with definiteevidence to prove that the early Christians certainly believed in Purgatory.On their tombs we read: "In your prayers remember us who have gonebefore you." "Mayest thou have eternal light in Christ."Tertullian (160-240) speaks of anniversary Masses for the dead: "Wemake on one day every year ablations for the dead, as for their birthdays.""The faithful widow ... offers prayers on the anniversary of his death."St. Monica just before dying made this request of her son St. Augustine:"Lay this body anywhere; let not the care of it in any way disturbyou. This only I request of you, that you would remember me at the altarof the Lord, wherever you be." St. Augustine then petitions, . . ."And inspire, . . . that as many shall read these words may rememberat Thy Altar, Monica, Thy servant." Hence no sane student of historycan deny the fact of this universal custom of the early Church, i.e., ofpraying for the dead because she believed in Purgatory.

5. Did the Jews believe in Purgatory?
Certainly the Jews believed in offering prayers and sacrifice for theirdeparted friends and relatives and they still believe in this custom forthey are found always at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. In their liturgyfor funerals of Hebrews the prayers for the dead read as though they wereCatholic prayers for the dead.

6. Did Luther believe in Purgatory?
No. Fr. Conway in "Question Box," says, "Luther’s false theory of justification by faith alone led him to deny the distinction between mortal and venial sin, the fact of temporal punishment, the necessity of good works, the efficacy of indulgences, and the usefulness of prayersfor the dead. If sin is not remitted but only covered; if the ‘New Man’of the Gospel is Christ imputing His own justice to the still sinful man,it would indeed be useless to pray for the dead that they be loosed fromtheir sins. Luther’s denial of Purgatory implied either the cruel doctrinethat the greater number of even devout Christians were lost, which accountsin some measure for the modern denial of eternal punishment, or the unwarrantedassumption that God by ‘some sudden, magical change’ purifies the soulat the instant of death. "Protestant prayers for the dead, if everthey pray for the dead, are a waste of time and are meaningless unlessthey admit a Purgatory.

7. Christ sent the good thief immediately into Paradise. I don’t seethe need of your Purgatory.
The good thief gained Paradise immediately because of his perfect contritionand anyone dying in the state of contrition that is judged perfect by Godimmediately merits Heaven. Whether our contrition is perfect or imperfectdepends on God’s judgment. The Book of Wisdom (7:25) declares that "nothingdefiled cometh" into the presence of the Spirit of Wisdom. St. Johnin the Apocalypse describes the new Jerusalem and says (21:27), "Thereshall not enter into it anything defiled." This means that souls mustbe purified of slight blemishes of venial sins which involve temporal punishmentstill to be suffered. Common sense tells us that some are not worthy toenter at once into Heaven and that they are not bad enough to be doomedto hell. There must, therefore be an intermediate state where the soulis cleansed of its defilement. It is contrary to nature not to, pray forthe departed friend or relative. The instinct of nature creates a hopethat every thing is all right with the departed, and, if not, there isfound a latent urge to help with prayer and sacrifice. Purgatory robs deathof its terrors. When the Reformers denied this doctrine they drove a stilettointo the Scriptures and the unbroken tradition of the Christian Church.They choked and stifled the inherent cravings of our hearts. If I can prayfor my mother when she is alive then why not when she is dead, that she,too, be loosed of her sins? Can we not then hear the cry of Job: "Havepity on me, have pity on me, at least you my friends, because the handsof the Lord hath touched me." Job 19:21. Tennyson gives testimonyto the natural yearning of the human heart and to the Christian tradition,when he writes: "I have lived my life, and that which I have doneMay He within Himself make pure; but thou, If thou shouldst never see myface again, Pray for my soul. More things are wrought by prayer Than thisworld dreams of. Wherefore, let thy voice Rise like a fountain for me nightand day."

8. I am interested in your dogma concerning Purgatory. Must I be a Catholic before I can understand that invention of your Church?
No. You must be a non-Catholic to suspect that the Church did invent it. The idea that there is no Purgatory is the invention of Protestants.The Reformers corrupted the true doctrine, and many good Protestants, realizingthis, are returning to the Catholic religion of their forefathers. Meantime,if I could discover, or you could show me when and where the Church invented this doctrine, I promise to spend the rest of my life exposing the Catholic Church as a merely human institution making outrageous claims upon men.

9. Why make people afraid of such a horrible place as Purgatory, when you know that it does not exist?
I know that it does exist. And if you deny it be-cause to you it seemsa horrible place, you must deny hell also because it is far more horrible.And if you deny hell, you deny Christianity. And is it not a more horriblethought that there would be no Purgatory? In that case you would have butHeaven and hell. All not quite fit for Heaven could not hope to escapehell. It is a much more pleasant thought that there are people not quitegood enough for Heaven, yet not had enough for hell, and that these aresent to Purgatory until they are purified sufficiently for Heaven.

10. What is the nature of your doctrine on Purgatory?
It can be summed up very briefly. At death the soul of man, if quitefit, goes at once to Heaven; if not quite fit, to Purgatory; if quite unfit,to hell. The soul which has repented of all its sins, and has fully expiatedthem in this life, is quite fit for Heaven at once. The soul which departsthis life in a state of unrepented mortal sin can never be fitted for Heaven,and goes to hell. But a soul which has sincerely repented of its sins,yet has not fully expiated them, secures immunity from hell by repentance,and goes to Purgatory until it has expiated all its deficiencies.

11. Does God want to roast you merely because you have the misfortune to be alive?
He knows that you had no say in the matter. God does not want to roast me. It is not a misfortune to be alive, though it is blame-worthy to have misused one’s existence. Nor did I want a say as to whether I should receivethe gift of existence. People can leave me a fortune tomorrow without consultingme. But I did have a say in my infidelities to God’s grace, and for thatI am responsible and do not wish to excuse myself.

12. Have you been so atrociously wicked as to deserve Purgatory?
There is no need to be atrociously wicked in order to need purification,any more than there is need to be on your deathbed before you need medicine.But there is need to attain to a high standard of purity and holiness beforeone could be fit to enter the glory of God’s presence.

 

[eric51]

13. Do Protestants go to Purgatory?
All who die in the charity of Christ whether they have known Him or not escape hell. If they are not good enough to enter Heaven they go to Purgatory. Between souls united to Christ in Heaven and on earth and in Purgatory there flourishes a most intimate relation. We ask each other’sprayers on earth; we do not believe that our holiest and best lose theirpower to pray for us merely because they have been transferred to Heaven,so we often ask them to continue so doing. In the Communion of Saints wehave the Church Triumphant assisting the Church Militant, and the ChurchMilitant by prayers and indulgences assisting the Church Suffering. Henceyou see that the Church has nothing to do with hell. But she has a veryintimate connection with both Purgatory and Heaven. The Church has nothingto do with hell, because it is no use praying for those who are in helland there is no need to pray for those who are safely in Heaven, it isobvious that there is a place of temporal suffering, or purification, orpurgation-Purgatory. Since Protestants admit only a Heaven and a Hell itis absurd and useless for them to pray for the dead.

14. Would God destine so good a man as George Washington for Purgatory just because he was not Apostolic?
Purgatory is not a final destiny. Every soul that goes there is saved,and is ultimately admitted to the very Vision of God. Good Protestants as well as good Catholics and Eastern Orthodox will go there if they are not quite perfect at death. There is no dispensation. And where is the man who has not his imperfections?

15. A man has every chance to repent in this life.
He has. And if he does not, he will not even go to Purgatory if his sins be grave. Purgatory is not a place for repentance, but for purification.If two men repent on their deathbeds, one of whom broke one commandment and the other, all the commandments often, both are saved by their repentance. But they are not both equal before God. They will suffer relative purifications in Purgatory.

16. This dogma of Purgatory was invented by Pope Gregory in 600 A.D.,and was made an article of faith by the Council of Florence in 1439.
If not invented until 600 A.D., why did St. Monica, in the fourth century,implore her son St. Augustine, as she lay on her dying bed, that he would pray for her soul whenever he went to the Altar to offer the Mass? And how would you account for the inscriptions in the catacombs recording prayersfor the dead offered by the Christians of the first centuries? Or, if youwould go back earlier, what will you do with the teaching of Scriptureitself. The Council of Florence merely recalled previous definitions.

17. What is your Romish reply to the challenge of Article XXII in the Book of Common Prayer?
That Article of the Church of England says that the Romish doctrine of Purgatory is grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but is rather repugnant to the Word of God. The reply is that the Article is quite erroneous, andthat many Anglicans realize the fact. Thus an Anglican clergyman unsays that Article definitely in this book entitled, "The Catholic Religion:A Manual of Instruction for Members of the Church of England." He speaks of a place of mercy "provided in the intermediate state, in which evil will be completely purged. When this purification is accomplished,such souls enter into perfect peace," p. 193. On the following page he suggests that, at the Reformation, men were too eager and rejected much that was true - including the intermediate state. In no less than six different places he urges prayer for the dead just as Catholics pray for the dead,and, as he shows from Scripture, both the Jews and St. Paul prayed forthe departed. On p. 379, he writes, "Still more desirable is the celebration of the Holy Eucharist for the repose of the soul of the departed."Thus this Anglican clergyman goes back to the Romish doctrine of Purgatory.I am not quoting from a book unacceptable to the many. My copy is of the19th edition, completing 207 thousand.

18. How can an Anglican clergyman who has sworn to accept the articles of Religion, teach such doctrine?
I do not see how he can do so. Romish theologians are simple children compared with the capacity for mental gymnastics manifested by Rev. Vernon Staley, the author of the book, in his efforts to salve his conscience.He says in effect that the doctrine of Purgatory is all right, but that Anglicans must not use the word Purgatory. He admits the thing but not its terminology. He calls it a place or process of cleansing, but he wil lnot call it Purgatory, which means the same thing. It is as if we Catholics had invented the word theatre. Then this exponent of Anglicanism would insist upon using the word playhouse, and swear that he did not agree withthe Catholic Church concerning houses of entertainment. In substance he declares Article XXII to be false and unscriptural.

19. You speak of Scripture, but the Bible mentions only Heaven and hell.
It does not. It certainly mentions an intermediate state to which the soul of Christ went after His death on the cross. 1Pet. 3:19. This statewas neither Heaven nor hell, but the Limbo of the Fathers of the Old Law. In addition to this, Scripture mentions the purgatorial state. In any case,it would not matter if the Bible did mention but two places. My mentioning only London and New York could not prove the nonexistence of Paris. Itwould be a different matter if Christ had said, "There is no Purgatory."But He did not.

20. How do you prove the existence of such a state?
In Matt. 5:26, Christ, in condemning sin, speaks of liberation only after expiation in the prison. "Thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing." In Matt. 12:32, He speaks of sin which "shall not be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come." Any remission of the effects of sin in the next world can refer only to Purgatory. Above all St. Paul tells us that the ray of judgment will try each man’s work. That day is after death, when the soul goes to meet its God. What is the result of that judgment? If a man’s work wil lnot stand the test St. Paul says that "he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall he saved, yet so as by fire." 1Cor. 3:15. This cannot refer to eternal loss in hell, for no one is saved there. Nor can it referto Heaven, for there is no suffering in Heaven. Purgatory alone can explain this text. As a matter of fact, all Christians believed in Purgatory until the Reformation, when the Reformers began their rejection of Christian doctrines at will. Prayer for the dead was ever the prevailing custom,in accordance with the recommendation of the Bible itself. "It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from their sins." 2Mach. 12:46. Prayer for the dead supposes a soul not in Heaven where it does not need the help of prayer, nor in hell where prayer cannot assist it. Some intermediate state of purification and need,where prayer can help, is necessary. And the doctrine is most reasonable."There shall not enter into the new Jerusalem anything defiled."Apo. 21:27. Yet not all defilement should cost man the loss of his soul.Small offenses are punished by fines or by temporary imprisonment, after which the delinquent is liberated. Those who deny Purgatory teach the harder and more unreasonable doctrine.

21. God would not demand expiation after having forgiven the sin.
What you think God would do or would not do cannot avail against that which He does do. When David repented of his great sin God sent the prophet Nathan with the message to him, "The Lord hath taken away thy sin. Nevertheless, because thou hast given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, thy child shall surely die." 2 Sam. 12:14. To forgivet he guilt of sin, and purify the spiritual scar and stain, which that disease of the soul leaves, by expiatory suffering, is better than to leave the soul still unpurified and indebted to God’s justice. I, too, could fullyforgive a friend his offense should he have robbed me, yet still insist that he make good the damage he has wrought me.

22. What is the punishment of Purgatory?
When the soul leaves the body, that which can think, remember, love,hate, be happy or miserable, has gone from that body. A corpse cannot do these things. And the soul, with these capabilities, goes into a new state of being as a separated spirit. And my true self, separated from the distractions of this world, will perceive clearly and fully its own unfitness for God’s presence, a perception which will mean unspeakable suffering. The exact nature of this suffering we do not know, but it is compared in Scripture to the action of fire afflicting a sensitive body. Although it is not defined as a dogma that there is a real fire of Purgatory, it is the general opinion of theologians that there is a real fire somewhat analogous to the fire of hell. However it be explained, the fact that purgatorial suffering awaits the imperfect has been revealed by God.

23. When did God make Purgatory?
Heaven, of course, always existed. For where God is, there is Heaven. Hell was made when the devil and his followers fell from grace. There was no Purgatory for them. Purgatory, then, was made when men began to sin and die with sins repented of, but not fully expiated by the sufferings of this life. Men under the Old Law went to Purgatory just as those do who live under the New Law.

24. Where is Purgatory?
God has not deigned to satisfy our curiosity on that point, and the knowledge is not of practical importance to us. The fact that there is a Purgatory has been revealed by God. And when He reveals a fact, we cannot say to Him, "Well, I for one refuse to believe it until You tell me more about it." God proves a thing by saying it, for He is truth itself.We have but to prove that He said it.

 

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25. How do you know that there are any souls in Purgatory?
We know that 100,000 people die daily. I refuse to believe that they all go to hell, and feel quite sure that they are not all fit for immediate entry into Heaven. Moreover, you would find far more difficulty in endeavoring to show that there are no souls in Purgatory.

26. How do you know that you can help the souls in Purgatory by your prayers?
God would not have inspired the Jews to pray for the departed if such prayers were of no avail. Christians have always prayed for the dead, a practice fully warranted by the doctrine of the Communion of Saints. And if we can pray for our dear ones who are in trouble in this life, our prayers can certainly follow them in their future difficulties. All prayer is addressed to the same God who is as present to the souls of our dear departed as He is to us.

27. Is your own personal conviction such that you will want others to pray for you?
It is. All who have the Apostolic faith believe in prayer for the dead. It is not a doctrine for the laity only. And I sincerely hope that friends will pray for me and have Masses offered on my behalf when God has taken me from this world. I shall need them. Nothing defiled will enter Heaven, and if at death one’s soul is not absolutely perfect in virtue proportionately to the grace it has received, it is defiled by imperfection of some sort."If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1Jn.1:8. Masses and prayers offered for me after my death will help to expiate such imperfections as I unfortunately possess.

28. So you expect to get redemption on the nod! You are fortunate.
I am. And not a soul will be saved who does not owe it to the death of Christ on the cross, and who will not admit that this was a purely free and gratuitous gift wholly undeserved by men. Mass merely applies the satisfactory value of Christ’s death to my soul. Meantime, those who deny Purgatory and the necessity to expiation wish to obtain salvation much more "onthe nod," as you call it, than we do.

29. Joseph McCabe says that Purgatory is the most lucrative doctrine ever invented by priests.
He is the last man from whom you should seek information about the Apostolic Church. My judgment is not warped by hatred. The doctrine of Purgatory was revealed by God. It is not a lucrative doctrine invented for financial reasons. Popes, Bishops, and priests all believe in it on exactly the same footing as the faithful, and it is my consolation that many priests have already promised to offer Mass for me as soon as they hear of my death. And they will receive nothing for doing so.

30. Yet priests accept offerings for Masses under false pretenses.
They do not. A priest will accept an offering on the understanding that he will say a special Mass for the intentions of the person making the offering. In accepting an offering from one person he forfeits the support he would receive from another in exercising his ministry on that other’s behalf.

31. It is a source of revenue which no priest dare fail to utilize.The selling of Masses must be most profitable.
That remark shows that you do not understand the nature of Mass offerings at all. Priests do not sell Masses, and the people do not pay for Masses.The Mass cannot be bought or sold. Even were I to say that the priest offers the Mass and is paid, not for the Mass, but for his time and services, any evil element such as you suggest would be excluded. It matters little whether a chaplain be given a salary for a year’s service, or a special offering for a special service. However the explanation is deeper than that. In the Old Law the people brought tithes and percentages of their goods and dedicated them to God. The gift was directly made to God, and once given, ceased to belong to the giver and belonged entirely to God.Then God made use of these gifts for the support of His religious ministers, inviting them to be His guests. The same spirit characterizes Catholic practice. A Catholic wishes to offer the sacrifice of the Mass to God.He is not compelled to do so. Now the Mass is a sacrifice instituted by Christ, but it supposes the outward necessities, bread, wine, altar, vestments,and a living human being authorized by God to offer it in the name of Christ and of the Church. The Catholic offers to God all that is necessary, and indeed offers a personal sacrifice by contributing towards the up keep of the altar and towards the very life of the priest who is to stand at the altar on his behalf. Since he has made this offering to God, the Mass is applied according to his intention. Thus, when you attack the idea that the priest sells the Mass to a Catholic, you are not attacking Catholic doctrine or practice at all.

32. Your harnessing Purgatory to the idea of offerings to God is most ingenious. So the Church is equal to God?
I do not harness Purgatory to the idea of offerings to God. I give the simple theological explanation, according to the doctrine of Christ as recorded by St. Paul. "They that serve the altar partake with the altar. So also the Lord ordained that they who preach the gospel should live by thegospel." 1 Cor. 9:1314. And as a matter of fact Purgatory does not necessarily come into it. It is a question of offering Mass for any intention whatever. Some Masses are offered for those we love and who have departed from this world. Nor is the Church made equal to God. She is but commissioned by God to attend to matters connected with His due worship. If I wished to give a friend a valuable plant in his garden, I would not be elevating the gardener to the status of my friend.

33. How can you as an honest man support the extortion of hard earned money from the poor?
I could not support extortion, but I can honestly say that only a person absolutely ignorant of things Apostolic could imagine that money is extorted from the poor for Masses.

34. Don’t priests visit the bereaved and tell them that so many dollars are required per week for Masses?
No. Church members are taught the truth from the pulpit in general. They are told that it is good to have Masses offered for the dead if possible;as indeed it is. Apart from that, the matter is left to the spontaneous desire of individuals. And they are never required to have such Masses offered.

35. If you do not extort, you press home the fact that, unless such Masses are said, the soul of the loved one will remain in Purgatory.
That is not true. There are many ways in which we can help our deceased relatives and friends, apart from having Masses offered for them. We can offer our own assistance at Mass, and our Holy Communions; we can offer any prayers we wish, or our sufferings, and acts of Christian mortification.It is good to have Mass offered specially for them if possible. But that is not the only way in which we can help them. Nor has anyone ever maintained that a soul necessarily remains in Purgatory until Masses shall have been offered.

36. Why don’t priests pray for the souls of the poor without payment of money which only the rich can afford?
Priests pray every day for the souls in Purgatory without payment of money, and without any discrimination between the rich and the poor. When someone asks for a special intercessory Mass, offering the customary stipend,the priest will comply with the request. But this is in addition to his personal prayers for the dead.

37. But would they say Masses for the poor?
Thousands of Masses are said every year for the poor by thousands of priests, when no offering at all is made. As a matter of fact the law ofthe Church obliges a parish priest to offer Mass every Sunday and on every Holy Day of Obligation for his parishioners, excluding all private requests and offerings And every priest in a spirit of charity, often offers Mass for the special intentions of poor people who cannot afford any offering.

38. The fact remains that the Catholic Church derives millions fromMasses, as Joseph McCabe points out.
Naturally the offerings of millions of people would amount to millions.That is to be expected. Nigh a million people in the Twin Cities contribute some millions yearly for various transport services; but the individual traveler is not unreasonably burdened, and the officials do not receive exorbitant remuneration. Your point proves nothing save the numerical strength of the Church, four hundred times as numerous throughout the world as the nigh million population of the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St.Paul.

 

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39. So Purgatory has been able to extort millions?

It extorts nothing. The truth revealed by God inspires us to have Masses offered for our departed friends and relatives. And those members, who can afford to do so, desire by personal sacrifice to render the offering of the Sacrifice of the Mass their own special offering to God.

40. From offerings for Masses in England about a quarter of a million is raked in yearly.
Proportionately to their numbers that averages a penny per week from individual Catholics, and yields about sixty cents per week to the individual priest.

41. In the United States it means a sum of between one and two millions a year.
The margin of difference is rather wide; however, taking the amount as two millions, for the Catholic population of the United States the average is again less than ten cents a year from the individual towards the support of priests from this source. And at McCabe’s maximum, the individual priest would receive the average income of one dollar per week from such Mass offerings.

42. Setting out the millions at so much per head is unsound, if ingenious. Not everyone pays, and those who do are made to feel it.
My argument is not unsound. It is unsound to talk of millions without mentioning the distribution of the sources from which they come. Nor is any Catholic made to feel that he is paying. In fact, no Catholic is madeto pay in any sense of the word, for there is no obligation to have Masses offered at all for one’s personal intentions.

43. Can any honest man be proud of all this? The New Testament says that he who serves the altar should live by the altar. 1Cor. 9:13-14. And certainly the man who devotes the whole of his life to the welfare of his people can quite honestly accept a small percentage from the earnings of those to whose welfare he is devoted. The priest has to live. He is more constantly at his work than the man who controls a transport system for the convenience of citizens and who derives his living from the small contributions of those who use those services. And the priest’s work is more important and more responsible. Moreover, the average priest barely gets a living,and many have to be subsidized or they could scarcely live at all.

44. At any rate, has not the soul of a rich man a better chance than the soul of a poor man?
We cannot make such a comparison. The rich man who provides for the offering of Masses for the repose of his soul has a better chance of diminishing his Purgatory than the rich man who makes no such provision.

45. I want my question answered. A rich man leaves $1,000 for Masses for his soul. A poor man leaves but $ 1. Who has the better chance of entering Heaven?
If both died in a state of unrepented mortal sin, neither of them has any chance. If both died in a state of grace, both will certainly enter Heaven. All souls which depart this life in a state of grace will eventually enter Heaven. However, some souls need more purification in Purgatory than others. The question, then, is whether the wealthier man will secure the more rapid purification, and enter Heaven more easily than the poor man.Not necessarily. The $1 may easily have been the greater generosity relatively than the $1,000. The dispositions of the poor man could easily have been more pleasing to God than those of the rich man. The very poverty and suffering of the poor man in this life was already expiation; so much so that Christ practically says that Heaven belongs almost by special right to the poor,declaring that the rich with their life of comfort and self-indulgence will enter Heaven with great difficulty. The poor man might scarcely need the few Masses he asks, whilst the rich man, with all his Masses, may have far more to expiate. Then, too, the departed can benefit by Masses and prayers within certain limits only. Anything over and above those limits would be applied to other souls. St. Augustine clearly taught in the fourth century, "There is no doubt that our prayers can benefit those whoso lived as to deserve to be benefited by them." He recommends sacrifice on their behalf, whether of the altar, or of prayers, or of almsgiving,adding, "Although they do not benefit all for whom they are offered, but those only who deserved during life to benefit by them." But we can safely leave the adjusting of all these things to God.

46. How do priests know when a soul escapes from Purgatory?
Souls do not escape from Purgatory as criminals from jail, or birds from a cage. When they are sufficiently purified for the vision of God they are admitted to Heaven. And no one knows when this occurs, unless God gives a special revelation, a favor we have no right to ask.

47. Then you might he praying for a soul not in Purgatory at all!
That is quite possible. Granted that we believe in Purgatory, that our prayers can help the dead, and that we do not know for certain whether our dear ones are emancipated from their purifications or not, we continue praying for them. We give them, rather than ourselves, the benefit of any doubt. We argue that our prayers may possibly benefit them, not that they may possibly be wasted. And we would certainly risk saying too many forthem rather than allow them to run the risk of being deprived of help.

48. On that score, Catholics would go on praying and having Masses said as long as they live. Quite so. Is it a fault to be generous as long as one lives? And are such earnest prayers harmful? I am a priest. My own mother has gone to God. I shall certainly offer Masses for her as long as I am able to do so and am free from other obligations. If, long before my death, her purification is finished and she is enjoying the happiness of Heaven, I know that not a single prayer or Mass will be wasted. There are other souls in Purgatory, and no Catholic begrudges the application of his prayers and sacrifices to other souls should his own dear ones have no need of them.

49. I must confess that I find all this rather baffling.
You are outside the Apostolic Church, and no more under stand the spirit of the religion than a man standing outside a Cathedral can discern the wonderful beauty of the stained glass windows from within. But a reasonable man would say, "Well, I can hardly expect to perceive the real sense and design from here. But there must be something in it, and if I cannot enter the building I must be content to be without an understanding of that window’s real beauty." But you stand outside the building of Catholic doctrine, stare at practices you cannot expect to understand from outside, and express astonishment that you see nothing in them.

50. Purgatory would be a stumbling block for me were I to become a Catholic.
John L. Stoddard whilst in the quest for the sure light of religioustruth received this illuminating letter from a Catholic friend: "There is hardly a religious system of antiquity in which some similar provision(to Purgatory) is not found. It was left for the ‘Reformers’ of the sixteenth century to reject this immemorial dogma of the Church. When they denied the sanctity of the Mass and many other sacramental features of Catholicism, the doctrine of Purgatory went with the rest. If the souls of the dead pass instantly into an eternally fixed state, beyond the efficacy of our intercessions, then all our requiems, prayers and similar practices are vain. But if, on the contrary, we believe in the Communion of Saints, that is, in the intercession of the threefold Church, militant on earth, suffering in Purgatory, and triumphant in Heaven, then we on earth can influence,and be influenced by, the souls who have crossed the border. Few, indeed, quit this life in a state of purity and grace which warrants their immediate entrance into Heaven. Still fewer, let us hope, are those to whom the blessed refuge of Purgatory, that halfway house of our dead, is closed. I cannot conceive how Protestants can believe as they do on this point, nor is it astonishing that their rejection of Purgatory, has been followed in the case of many, by the elimination of a belief in hell; for the latter doctrine,taken alone, is monstrous. In fact, all Catholic doctrines are interdependent;they stand or fall together. You cannot pick stones out of the arch, and expect humane and beautiful conceptions imaginable. How many mothers’ aching hearts has it not soothed and comforted with hope for some dead, waywardson."

 

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No such thing as purgatory.

51. Was this letter the cause of Stoddard’s quitting Agnosticism for Catholicism?
It made a powerful appeal and served as one of the stepping stones to the conversion of this famed lecturer and writer. In his book, "Rebuilding a Lost Faith," he says this: "The doctrine of the Catholic Church in reference to Purgatory states that there is such a place, in which souls suffer for a time, be fore they can be admitted to the joys of Heaven,because they still need to be cleansed from certain venial sins, infirmities and faults, or still have to discharge the temporal punishment due to mortal sins, which is as yet uncancelled, though the lasting punishment of those sins has been forgiven and re moved through Christ’s atonement. Furthermore,the Church declares, that by our prayers and by the acceptable sacrifice of the Mass we may still help those souls, through the merits of Christ. Beyond this statement the Church’s formal doctrine does not go; but it is not an article of Catholic faith that there is in Purgatory any materia lfire. It is generally believed that souls in Purgatory suffer spiritua languish from the fact that they then feel acutely, as they could not do on earth, the perfect happiness from which they are for a time excluded,while they must also understand the enormity of the sins which they committed against their Heavenly Father and their Savior."

52. Why should suffering be required to cleanse us?
According to Rev. J. B. McLaughlin, O.S.B., in his book, "Purgatory or The Church Suffering," we have this answer: "Some have thought of God as a hard creditor, fixing the tax of pain for every sin or every sinner. But we must not think that right and wrong are fixed arbitrarily by God; for they rest on His very nature. Not, it is right that we should suffer for sin, since God so commands; rather, He commands it because it is right. And in His goodness He has made us like Himself; giving us light not only to see what is His will, but also to see to some extent what He sees. Therefore, let us try to see why it is right that after repenting our sins we must suffer for them. Consider a spirit, angel or man, that defies God and disobeys His will. Imagine that God consents to this; treats the rebellious spirit as a welcome friend, as a fitting companion for the sinless angels and for God Him self. Imagine that God creates spirits such that they can find eternal and untroubled happiness in defying their Maker,and can bask unrebuked in His love. Do we not feel at once that this is not God that we are picturing? That in some way eternal justice would be violated if these things were possible, and the holiness of God would be profaned? If God be God, such defyings and rebellion and all unholiness must be hateful to Him. His very nature requires that all sin shall bring its own punishment on the sinner. Again, consider the sinner who discovers and realizes what he has done in defying his Maker. He sees at once that punishment unthinkable is his due. Only two alternatives seem possible to him: the despair of devils and of Judas, if he has lost all love for God; or, if he keeps any root of love, then the wish to suffer to the limits of his nature that in some way he may acknowledge the majesty and the holiness that he has outraged. To him comes the gift of hope; the seemingly unbelievable yet certain knowledge that God’s all-mastering power can so change himf rom his sin that he shall be as if he had never sinned. The Magdalen shall dwell unabashed with the spotless Mother of God; yea, and with God Himself. With this hope to enlighten him, the sinner sees he is to make anatonement far ampler than he had thought. He will suffer now, and by his sufferings not only atone to the Majesty he had insulted; but also will restore to God the servant and friend who seemed lost, rendering up his own soul new made in the fires of God’s love."

53. What reasons do you give that there should be suffering for sin?
"There are, therefore, two reasons for suffering for sin: first,atonement to God; and second, the remaking of our souls. And we can see that suffering for these purposes may well last long. If we look at the suffering endured to atone to God, there is no reason why it should ever end, except His mercy. And the remaking of our souls is slow. A wound or sprain is received in an instant, but very slowly is it healed. A sin is committed in an instant by an act of will, and forgiven in an instant whenthe will submits in love to God; but the mischief wrought by the sin in our nature is deep, and slow to mend." See McLaughlin, "Purgatory."

54. Are Catholics the only ones who believe in Purgatory?
The Jews have believed in Purgatory and even amongst the pagans we find the same belief. "Other religions," says McLaughlin, "such as Buddhism and Spiritualism, have recognized this fact, that at death most men are not yet fitted for eternal rest. All false religions are built of fragments of truth, built up into a nightmare of falsehood. Here the question they face is a real question. All our lives we see before us a high standard calling us to live up to it, and at death we have not reached it; how are we to reach it after death? They invent wild and sometimes ghastly answers. But the true answer is: by the power of God, through the purifying power of suffering; and this we name Purgatory. These other religions think only of the perfecting of man’s soul, not of giving God His due.And thereby they leave out the highest part of man’s perfection.
Certainly man should grieve that he has lowered and degraded himself by sin, and should rejoice to rise to better things. This grief is a necessary part of the whole agony entailed by sins; but if it stand alone it is merely pride, part of a great rejection of truth. For the chief cause of agony ought to be the knowledge that he has ill-treated God, despised His majesty,outraged His holiness, rejected His love. The soul in Purgatory, realizing what is due to God, loving Him with its whole being, will wish above all things to atone for its sin by suffering worthy punishment. If it could be content to leave in the smallest degree unrepaired the wrongs it has done to God, it would be far from the perfection that is possible to saints even in this life. In Purgatory the soul longs to suffer in order to be clean, to suffer in order to reach God; but above all these is its longingto suffer in order to make amends to the Divine Majesty, Holiness, Love. For its love of God is everything to it now; its desire for its own purification and happiness is part of its love for God."

55. What was Luther’s error on Purgatory?
"The Church had to condemn an error of Luther’s, that the souls in Purgatory sin ceaselessly, by desiring rest and shrinking from their sufferings. This error comes from not understanding that all sin is in the will, and in the act of the will; the act whereby we choose definitely to do this and not that. Besides this act of choosing, there are many other desires in our nature; and these may be the cause of sin, or the material of sin, or the effect of sin; but they are not sin. Consider a man who has a long-standing dislike of another, which has often led him to follow trains of thought hostile to that man, and ending in finding further reasons for disliking him. Sin was committed in the act of consenting to follow these thoughts. Suppose some day he recognizes that his dislike is unjust,and from that time resolutely shows outward kindness to the man, and turns away instantly from all thoughts against him. His will is acting rightly, but against the grain; for the old habit of dislike is still in him, ready to break out into action at any moment if he would allow it. It is true that this dislike is a wrong one. And precisely because he sees that it is wrong, the man is constantly repressing it, doing all he can to wear it down and hoping some day to find that it is dead. The existence of the desire is therefore wrong, a result of sin, but not sinful. And it is no longer the cause of sins, but is now the material of virtuous acts everytime that the will resists it and acts against it. Such as this are the habitual desires, attractions, and repulsions that the soul may carry with it to Purgatory, because they have not yet been worked out of its being in this life. In Purgatory they must be removed from the soul; not now by work, nor by the soul’s resisting them and acting against them, but merely by suffering. In Purgatory such a dislike could never lead to sin.For in this world it leads to sin because the soul is still in the body.Through the senses, through the humors and state of the body, the will is provoked or drawn to indulge these desires or dislikes; and at the same time and for the same reasons, it easily loses sight of God and His love.
"In Purgatory all the distractions of the body are gone; and the soul’s love for God absorbs it continuously and prevents it attending to any other desire. The bad desire or repulsion is latent in the soul, as it is in this life at the times when it does not trouble a man. But in Purgatory there is no possibility of its ever breaking out into action.It is simply burning out slowly in the fire of suffering. Luther did not suggest that the suffering soul could sin in this way, but in the very fact of finding its sufferings painful. We have seen that to the soul it is intensely painful to be held away from God, to know that it has insulted Him and is unfit to approach Him. Plainly it is right that these things should be painful to the soul; it would be wrong if the soul could be satisfiedwith them. And the soul’s act of will is to accept this pain because it is right. This act of will is completely pleasing to God, but wins the soul no higher place in heaven. For its place in heaven was won during its life on earth."

56. How long will souls be kept in Purgatory?
"It is the constant teaching of the Church," says Rev. J.B. McLaughlin, O.S.B., "that all purgation will be completed whenthe general judgment comes at the end of the world. All the souls that are to go to Heaven will at that judgment be reunited to their bodies and enter into their everlasting reward. But as to the duration of the purgation of individual souls we know nothing from our Lord’s teaching. He tells us in a parable, ‘thou shalt not depart thence till thou pay the last farthing.’This shows the need of perfect purity before we can enter Heaven; but reveals nothing about the length of time of imprisonment. The Church allows perpetual Masses to be arranged for one soul. This is because she does not know how long that soul may be suffering, nor how much atonement God will accept on its behalf from men. We have to remember that all times are alike present to God. There is nothing unlikely in supposing that prayers and Masses now being offered for one who died before the Reformation were the means of that soul entering into Heaven many hundreds of years ago, as our Lord’sPassion was the means of saving Adam’s soul. The visions God has allowed of souls begging for prayers many years after their death are evidence that these souls have been in suffering all that time. And if there are authentic visions where souls have also told that their Purgatory was to last many years yet, these also may be believed without fear of contradicting Catholic teaching. Those who are alive at the end of the world, and whose souls are stained with venial sin or owe a debt of punishment, must have their purgation like other such souls before they can enter Heaven. About these, people have wondered over two questions, of which God has not taught us the answers. First, as to their bodies. Are they to pass alive into Heaven or hell, or are they to die and rise again at once? And as to theirsouls, when are they to suffer their Purgatory, since they are not judged till the general judgment, and after that judgment there is no Purgatory? This is ask ing Almighty God how His doings are to be fitted into the tiny measures of time and space that He has made for our bodily life. He gives us glimpses to let us know how narrow is our vision, and that we must be content to know that He is infinitely above our understanding. We must not attempt to limit what He can do in what we call the ‘moment’ of judgment.’Of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.’ And on our side we know that a moment of intense anxiety, waiting to know will a falling stone crush a child, seems like an age. The work of purgation to be done in these souls is the same as in the souls of the martyrs. In the martyrs it is done in their sometimes brief dying. As easily can God do it at the last day."